The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[Ferris Bueller]

No, a man is justified before God by faith alone, apart from works.

No, a man is also justified by what he does before God not just man. A man's life shows whether or not he is righteous in Christ through faith. All saved people have to also be justified this way to be saved when Jesus comes back. At the judgment we will all be judged according to our works whether or not we are righteous in Christ by if we loved Christ in this life. If your deeds show you do not love Jesus you will go to the left and be thrown into the lake of fire. If your deeds show you do love Jesus you will go to the right and enter into the eternal kingdom.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes, but each one of us will mature at different speeds, as the key is to be saved and now walking in jesus and the Holy Spirit!

Does the Bible say that "the key is to be saved?" I'm always puzzled by this. It seems like a sweeping generalization that is fairly man-made. I thought that the whole duty of man was to fear (respect; love) God and keep His commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:13). Many will, of course, say that we are New Testament Christians, but what does that make the Christians who lived before the New Testament was canonized? Orphans? Strange that Christ Himself learned to be a perfect Example of a Christian by studying the Old Testament.

I believe that we must be saved to have eternal life or vice versa, but I think we put the emphasis on our own security a little too much. I don't find that to be the overall theme of the Bible. The Bible is that which testifies of Jesus (John 5:39). I think an over-emphasis on our own standing with God betrays a kind of spiritual selfishness. Scarce little is reported on these forums about the importance of service to God and others. It sometimes seems that works-a-phobia prevails everywhere in Christendom.

I'm really not accusing anyone, just offering food for thought.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, a man is also justified by what he does before God not just man.

See 1 Samuel 16:7, Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

See 1 Samuel 16:7, Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9.

I can tell you still think being justified by works means a works gospel. It doesn't. If it does then James is teaching a works gospel in his letter which we know he is not.

 

[justbyfaith]

I can tell you still think being justified by works means a works gospel. It doesn't. If it does then James is teaching a works gospel in his letter which we know he is not.

Do you even see what you just wrote?

Being justified by works is a works gospel by definition.

 

[Taken]

Do you even see what you just wrote?

Being justified by works is a works gospel by definition.

Ferris Bueller
No clue what a "works Gospel" is.

Point is-
Justification BY God- (not men), is God determining WHO (OF men) are worthy to Receive Gifts from God.

God IS JUST.

• God Gifts ALL men with Gods Blessings for His Love of mankind.

• God Gifts All men with FAITH for Hearing His Word.

• God Gifts All men with Forgiveness for Repentance.

• God Gifts All men with Salvation of their soul for True Heartful Confession of Belief in God and Christ Jesus.

• God Gifts All men, (WITH Saved souls), with a circumcised/New Heart, for Electing The Lord God to BE THEIR God.

• God Gifts All men, (WITH Saved souls), with
Gods SEED, (within a man's New Heart), for Electing The Lord God to BE THEIR God.

• God Gifts All men, (WITH Saved souls), with
a New Re-Born spirit (truth), IN their New Heart, By Gods SEED (who IS the SEED of God, who IS the Spirit of Truth, who IS Christ, who IS Jesus, who IS Gods Truth, who is Lord, who IS Lord of All Saved souls), for Choosing Christ the Lord Jesus to BE THEIR Lord God.

• God Gifts All men (WITH Saved souls AND quickened spirits) with;
..... Gods Spirit (Truth) (WITHIN) a man
..... Gods Spirit (Power) (WITHIN) a man.
..... Gods Gift of Faith-FULLNESS (WITHIN) a man.
..... Gods Glory (UPON) a man.
..... Gods SEAL (UPON) a man.
..... Gods Righteousness (WITHIN) a man.
..... Gods Promises (TO) a man.
..... Gods Blessings (TO & UPON) a man.
..... Gods Title of "son of God" (TO) a man.

Every single Gift GOD GIVES a man....
IS a Gift God JUSTIFIES a man Worthy TO Receive The Gift .... Gods Gift JUSTIFIED and Gods Gift Given BY God

Every Gift FROM God, (a man IS JUSTIFIED BY God) TO Receive....
Is Clearly Revealed in Scripture (FOR....)
A man....Freely ELECTING TO ACCEPT...
Gods Gifts.

A man WHO IS (saved AND born again) IS PREPARED TO:
... BE, Bodily Raised uncorrupted
...."DO WORKS" that Glorify God.

Again God Himself JUSTIFIES what WORKS (a Saved and Born Again man DOES)......THAT Glorifies God.

A (a Saved and Born Again man)....
WHO Does WORKS (THAT Glorifies God)
......PAY ATTENTION.....
ARE WORKS GOD IN HEAVEN KEEPS TRACK (accounting) OF IN HIS Kingdom, His Books of Records.
Works such a man DOES "THAT" Glorifies God, ARE "Treasures" STORED IN Heaven "FOR" that man who DID the Works to Glorify God.

WHEN the Son of man, (WITH Power), Returns To Earth TO Redeem (claim) men WITH The Seal OF God.... HE BRINGS WITH Him, HIS "REWARDS" ...
"For" Every (Saved and Born Again man,) WHO "HAS Treasures Stored IN Heaven."

God clearly has an ORDER and Way.

Faith is A Gift Given...BY God... For Hearing the Word of God.
Hearing, Receiving Faith...IS NOT ...Confessing Belief.
Faith received unto a man FOR Hearing "IS DEAD FAITH...WITHOUT" the Effort/Work, of a man TO
Open His Mouth and CONFESS True Heartful Belief IN the Lord God.
THAT is James message to men Receiving Faith for hearing...but have Not Confessed Their OWN Belief of WHAT THEY Heard...They Heartful Believe"!.

God JUSTIFIES WHAT He Will give a man, For what a man does.
A man with " Hearing Faith only" IS NOT Justified TO Receive Gods REWARD for Works.

Not complicated IF one follows Gods ORDER and WAY.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS
OP ^

I find ZERO refutation IN Scripture, Of Salvation Received is Heresy, TO TRUST To Believe that man's Salvation IS Secure IN Christ.

Rather- I find IN Scripture a man having Received Salvation IS Absolutely Assured HIS Salvation Received IS Secure IN Christ.

Rom 1:
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Rom 1:
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And if they DO walk after the flesh, not the Spirit? That's what the church likes to ignore. You can see in those verses that person is not saved for once saved always saved to even matter. But they think it does and they focus on that instead of being saved in the first place. I think they will be the ones who make up a lot of those people who will stand in shock and surprise that they're not going into the kingdom either, along with all those who worked real hard to earn entrance into the kingdom. But they bragged in their unholy lives in this life that they were saved because salvation is not by works and all you have to have is dead faith to be saved. They will see how wrong they are. But it will be too late then.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ferris Bueller
No clue what a "works Gospel" is.

Taken has no clue that the word justified has more than one meaning. Paul uses it one way, James is using it another. If you would just look the word up in a dictionary you'd see right away what definition Paul is using and what definition James is using.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Being justified by works is a works gospel by definition.

Then you are saying James taught a works gospel........

James 2:24
24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

If you would just take the time to look the word justified up in a dictionary you'd see being justified by works is not a works gospel. And then you'd understand why a true believer must be justified by both faith and works, or else he isn't a true believer.

 

[justbyfaith]

Then you are saying James taught a works gospel........

James 2:24
24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

If you would just take the time to look the word justified up in a dictionary you'd see being justified by works is not a works gospel. And then you'd understand why a true believer must be justified by both faith and works, or else he isn't a true believer.

In James 2:24, the justification being spoken of is before man (see Romans 4:2).

 

[justbyfaith]

But they bragged in their unholy lives in this life that they were saved because salvation is not by works and all you have to have is dead faith to be saved. They will see how wrong they are. But it will be too late then.

Of course we are saved only by a living faith.

But you are taking it one step further and saying that we are saved by our works.

We are not regenerated or renewed in the Holy Ghost by "works of righteousness which we have done" (Titus 3:5 (kjv)).

If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to produce in me a born again nature.

Only faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross has the capability of doing that.

Works do not save.

A living faith definitely saves; and it should be clear that anyone with a living faith will do works eventually when given the opportunity; there have been works foreordained for them to walk in.

There were no works foreordained for the thief on the Cross to walk in.

He had no gold, sliver, or precious gems to show for his faith; and he was saved, yet so as by fire, just as the scripture says.

 

[Taken]

And if they DO walk after the flesh, not the Spirit? That's what the church likes to ignore. You can see in those verses that person is not saved for once saved always saved to even matter. But they think it does and they focus on that instead of being saved in the first place. I think they will be the ones who make up a lot of those people who will stand in shock and surprise that they're not going into the kingdom either, along with all those who worked real hard to earn entrance into the kingdom. But they bragged in their unholy lives in this life that they were saved because salvation is not by works and all you have to have is dead faith to be saved. They will see how wrong they are. But it will be too late then.

...who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Is not an "IF"...
it "IS" what they have been "MADE".

Their "spirit" has been reborn.
The Spirit of God "IS" "WITHIN" them.
They ARE NOW "IN" Christ.

Their Flesh is not perfect.
But they are Perfect- ED "IN" Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Taken has no clue that the word justified has more than one meaning.

LOL - get real. I just wrote a lengthily post Expressly about multiple justifications God Does.

Pay attention- you said "works Gospel"...
I said I had no clue what you meant by that term.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In James 2:24, the justification being spoken of is before man (see Romans 4:2).

........and justified before God. For when Jesus comes back he will use our works to determine if we have faith in him and love him and are saved. He won't determine that by your claim that you love him and have faith in him and are saved. And so a man is also justified by what he does, not only by faith apart from works. If you can't be justified as being a true believer you will go to the left and into the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. Faith that is alone will not save you.

24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

 

[justbyfaith]

God imputes righteousness without (apart from) works according to Romans 4:6.

 

[justbyfaith]

24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

Again, this is speaking of justification before man.

Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Of course we are saved only by a living faith.

That's what I'm saying, so stop arguing with me.

But you are taking it one step further and saying that we are saved by our works.

We are saved by our works but not in the way that you seem to only be able to think that means. We are saved by our works only in that they show us (justify us) to have the righteousness of Christ by faith. You can't argue with the Bible that shows us that Jesus uses our works as the metric by which he determines if we have the righteousness of God by faith and love him and so are entitled to enter into the kingdom. It is ONLY in that way that works save us. They do not save us by earning our right to enter into the kingdom like Paul talks against.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, this is speaking of justification before man.

Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Stop parroting the church's stupid explanations. All you have to do is read Matthew 25 and you can see a man is justified (shown to righteous) BY GOD by what he does.

 

[justbyfaith]

You can't argue with the Bible that shows us that Jesus uses our works as the metric by which he determines if we have the righteousness of God by faith and love him and so are entitled to enter into the kingdom.

God does not use the barometric of our works to determine whether or not we have faith in Him.

He is Omniscient and can see our faith even when there are no works to accompany it (1 Samuel 16:7)...as with the thief on the Cross.

Stop parroting the church's stupid explanations. All you have to do is read Matthew 25 and you can see a man is justified (shown to righteous) BY GOD by what he does.

In Matthew 25, it does not qualify as true across the board that if someone does not have works, he will not be saved.

There is the issue of the deathbed conversion; wherein the person calls on the name of the Lord one minute before they pass into the next life (and thus shall be saved on their day of judgment); yet they had no works to show for their faith!

They have no gold, silver, or precious gems to show for their faith; and they shall be saved: yet so as by fire.

Now, what of the man who calls on the name of the Lord (they shall be saved) and misses the opportunity that the Lord gives unto him to do some good work; and therefore also has no works to show for his faith on the day of judgment?

I believe that Romans 10:13 is clear...that he shall still be saved.