abomination of desolation?

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Davy

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read the history Titus had the city Jerusalem under siege for a time then moved in towered the temple and after taking out the defenders of the temple he sacrificed pigs which is an abomination, then destroyed the temple and the city. historic fact are facts, which are the truth of a matter your gibberish is nothing more then what you just condemned in your previous posting to me.

I have read the history, but you're not revealing it, but instead what Preterism teaches in its place. Per the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.), (which you Jews hate), the temple caught fire inside when the Roman army was trying to seize it. So there NEVER WAS a false sacrifice nor idol placed in the 2nd temple by the Romans. If you say there was, then you are telling a LIE.
 

Davy

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Yes, revealed Davy. That doesn't mean this man of Lawlessness started to exist in the last days of this world but that this religious organization which has existed for centuries since the time after the Apostles died is the "Man of Lawlessness" to those who have faith.

Uh, yes the 2 Thess.2 Scripture, as written, does show that "man of sin" is ONLY revealed at the end in the generation that will experience Jesus' 2nd coming and gathering of His Church.

Nor can men's doctrines try to change the acts of that "man of sin" into some system organizational idea, which is totally idiotic and against the simplicity of the written Scripture! Paul is revealing what Lord Jesus revealed for the end per His Olivet discourse regarding a spurious Messiah appearing in Jerusalem at the end of this world, and proclaiming to be Messiah, working great signs and wonders to deceive the whole world with. And some men try to make that into some 'organization' doing that?!? what a joke!
 

Davy

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I hope you have the right understanding of 'handwriting of ordinances' because it's definitely not speaking of the Decalogue.

....and yes, I must admit, I am extreme....extremely jealous for God's Law ....just as Jesus was. He thought it so important it cost him his life.

The New Covenant is not about the keeping of God's laws. At the same time, it does not mean He abolished them all either. But He did abolish some. We no longer are required to be subject to a priesthood, as that was per the old covenant requirement. We no longer need animal sacrifice because Jesus Christ became the Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time. We are no longer tied down by ceremonial style worship, nor various washings, various offerings, etc., basically the religious ordinances, i.e., the 'old covenant'.

The Old Testament Books are NOT... the 'old covenant'. There is prophecy for the end even in the Book of Genesis. To understand about the 'old covenant' means having a grasp of the ordinances which Jesus nailed to His cross.

Changes in the law were made also. For example, in 1 Corinthians 10, Apostle Paul taught that whatever is sold in the shambles (market), that eat, asking no questions for conscience sake. And if we go to a feast among the Gentiles, eat what is set before you, asking no questions for conscience sake, except not if we know it was sacrificed to an idol. In that case, don't eat it, telling the unbelieving why it's wrong to eat what is sacrificed. It is against God's health laws to eat from the unhealthy list God said to not eat per the 'old covenant'. But under Christ, we have freedom, as it is not a salvation issue. It doesn't necessarily mean those unclean meats suddenly were made healthy to eat per the New Covenant, because really they still are not healthy for our body (like pork, shellfish, etc.). It's just no longer a salvation issue.

1 Cor 6:13
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
KJV


But many things in God's law are still in effect, but not as salvation issues. We still are to love our neighbor as our self, which was first written in Leviticus 19. Many laws in today's western courts are still based on God's laws.


Here's a Scripture by Apostle Paul which those who wrongly say 'the law is dead' definitely do not like...

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

KJV

By that, Apostle Paul made the portions of God's laws that Lord Jesus did not nail to His cross as part of Christian Doctrine per The New Covenant! (Ah! what a shock to the 'law is dead' false crowd!)
 

quietthinker

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The New Covenant is not about the keeping of God's laws. At the same time, it does not mean He abolished them all either. But He did abolish some. We no longer are required to be subject to a priesthood, as that was per the old covenant requirement. We no longer need animal sacrifice because Jesus Christ became the Perfect Sacrifice for sin for one and all time. We are no longer tied down by ceremonial style worship, nor various washings, various offerings, etc., basically the religious ordinances, i.e., the 'old covenant'.

The Old Testament Books are NOT... the 'old covenant'. There is prophecy for the end even in the Book of Genesis. To understand about the 'old covenant' means having a grasp of the ordinances which Jesus nailed to His cross.

Changes in the law were made also. For example, in 1 Corinthians 10, Apostle Paul taught that whatever is sold in the shambles (market), that eat, asking no questions for conscience sake. And if we go to a feast among the Gentiles, eat what is set before you, asking no questions for conscience sake, except not if we know it was sacrificed to an idol. In that case, don't eat it, telling the unbelieving why it's wrong to eat what is sacrificed. It is against God's health laws to eat from the unhealthy list God said to not eat per the 'old covenant'. But under Christ, we have freedom, as it is not a salvation issue. It doesn't necessarily mean those unclean meats suddenly were made healthy to eat per the New Covenant, because really they still are not healthy for our body (like pork, shellfish, etc.). It's just no longer a salvation issue.

1 Cor 6:13
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
KJV


But many things in God's law are still in effect, but not as salvation issues. We still are to love our neighbor as our self, which was first written in Leviticus 19. Many laws in today's western courts are still based on God's laws.


Here's a Scripture by Apostle Paul which those who wrongly say 'the law is dead' definitely do not like...

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

KJV

By that, Apostle Paul made the portions of God's laws that Lord Jesus did not nail to His cross as part of Christian Doctrine per The New Covenant! (Ah! what a shock to the 'law is dead' false crowd!)
thank you Davy!
 

DPMartin

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To start with, concerning grasping "the sacred secrets ("mysteries", KJV) of the Kingdom" or truths of the Bible, Jesus used the Greek word syniemi six times at Matthew 13 (verses 13-15, 19, 23, 51) that literally means "to mentally put the pieces together". So, who is able to "mentally put the pieces together" when it comes to the Bible and its deep meanings and prophetic statements ?

.

its not no deep meaning secrets mystery is simply searching out the answerers and without the appropriate info you will not see what the mystery is. no different then a murder mystery. so yes its to mentally put the pieces together, but not as you present it here. you don't need a lexicon to figure that out do you? hence mystery in the English language, the translators actually knew what they were doing.
 

DPMartin

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(Let The Reader Understand) ?

I wish I could think of a quicker way to explain it.

But when I read this:



I doubt that you'll like my explanation.

Me and a couple other guys figured this abomination business out in a forum post one time. It was one of the most exciting forum experiences that I've ever had. The one guy was Russian Orthodox or something. He hated the USA. That got in the way of his understanding.

The best way I can think to explain it is, is to let the reader figure it out for him or herself. Just take the prophetic time period, the 1290 days, and reverse engineer it for the event that caused the USA to become the "holy place", (a place prepared by God).

But first, notice how Luke removes the Abomination from the Olivet Discourse, and places it in Chapter 17. This is the biggie hint. This is important.

Matthew 24 mentions the "Abomination" STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE.

Then we get this:

"Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.​

Luke moves these verses to Chapter 17, right after the mention of the "days of Lot".

28“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

31
On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.​

See it? Luke replaces the "abomination of desolation", with the "days of Lot".

Daniel 12:11 is just another answer offered to the original question:

“How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?”​

Daily/AoD<-------1290Days------->EoW

(At the end of these wonders the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it's light)

Remember that a "law", or a legal decision can be "set up", or made to "stand".

'This decision will not stand': Republicans seek common cause against same-sex marriage

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) Canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 days------->Sun/Moon.
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 days------->EofW.

Calculate Duration Between Two Dates – Results

Partial Solar Eclipse on January 5–6, 2019

Total Lunar Eclipse on January 20–21, 2019 – Where and When to See

Peaceful Sabbath.


no wonder the Russian orthodox individual hates the USA. this posting is proof why. anyone who thinks the US is Holy in God's sight and the bible is about America is sadly mistaken and obnoxiously arrogant when its obvious that the bible is basically written by Jews to Jews, and when they document what the LORD their God says about the world around them from the view of Jerusalem.
 

DPMartin

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I didn't speak of the Romans 9 Scripture talking about Israel's scattering, but how Paul quoted from Hosea to Roman Gentile believers on Christ a Scripture in Hosea that was 'originally' written to the ten northern tribes of Israel that were eventually scattered. If you think you know God's Word, then you ought to easily be able to find what Paul quoted there in Romans 9 from Hosea. If you pretend it's not there, then you reveal you don't really know what you're talking about, and are just here to gush deception. Are you a Jew by the way?



It would make sense to someone who has actually studied the Romans 9 Scripture where Apostle Paul quoted from Old Testament prophets like Hosea and Isaiah to Roman Gentiles. My bringing this up is in counter to your false claim in your post...

You said:
"you have to take into consideration in the past hundred-ish years the denominations especially those created here in north America base much of their views as if the bible was written to them. it maybe this was to keep the membership interested if they think its all about them, but that's pretty much how it stands and that line of thinking has permeated through out the general theology in north America. the bible was written to Jews by Jews except for epistles to gentile churches (that are grated in via faith of Abraham) in the NT that are written by Jews.

and most if not all prophecy is from God's view in Heaven at His chosen place in the earth (His footstool) Jerusalem."
Joel Osteen is well studied and he blurts out some of the most horrendous uses of scripture for his purposes, and so is Satan as a matter a fact, so giving me your self witness don't mean anything.

anyway if Paul isn't talking about the scattering in romans 9 as you say, then why are you using his quotes to talk about the scattering?
 

Dave Watchman

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no wonder the Russian orthodox individual hates the USA. this posting is proof why. anyone who thinks the US is Holy in God's sight and the bible is about America is sadly mistaken and obnoxiously arrogant when its obvious that the bible is basically written by Jews to Jews, and when they document what the LORD their God says about the world around them from the view of Jerusalem.

I knew you wouldn't like it.

But the facts remain.

In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. There were four blood moons and God was opening up a new continent. The 1260 years of Pay Pal Persecution would come to an end in 1798. The "earth" was made ready to help the woman, a "place prepared by God" to nurture the new Christian Church.

She could be free to translate, print and distribute the Bible.

The only nation complete with a Bible belt.

When God does a thing it becomes Holy, not that the thing is Holy so that God does it. The USA became the "holy place" by default, as soon as it became "a place prepared by God", and swallowed the flood that spewed forth from the Dragon's mouth during the middle ages.

Take off your sandals.

America America,
God shed His grace on thee.

Peaceful Sabbath,
I call it a delight.
 

Bobby Jo

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...
I call it a delight.

There's TWO NATIONS which are Blessed: Israel FIRST, and the U.S. SECOND; but the one on earth which we'll see shortly is the Millennial Kingdom, where satan is bound for the thousand years, which will FAR EXCEED both.


So you can be "delighted", but I'm saving that term for a year and a few months from now.
Bobby Jo
 

Dave Watchman

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There's TWO NATIONS which are Blessed: Israel FIRST, and the U.S. SECOND; but the one on earth which we'll see shortly is the Millennial Kingdom where satan is bound for the thousand years.


So you can be "delighted", but I'm saving that term for some year and a few months from now.
Bobby Jo

I'm sorry man, I still think you're 1000 years too soon for that.

My read is we need to go to the Father's house with many rooms during that time.

Abomination that causes DESOLATION.

I see some threads ask: "who will be the survivors of the great tribulation?

When Jesus comes back, whoever is NOT in the air, are slain by a sharp sword, a command, that comes from His mouth.

Like the bartender says at closing time: "you might not have to go Home, but you CAN'T stay here.

The great city is going to be spit into three parts.

That means all three thirds go to their destruction.

100%

The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again.
And the land will vomit out it's inhabitants.

And the Earth will enjoy it's rest all the time we are gone.

Peaceful Sabbath.
 

Randy Kluth

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thank you Davy!
I've repeatedly declared this on more than one forum, without reasonable opposition, that a major view in the history of the Church was that the AoD Jesus referred to took place in his generation, as stated. There were several views on what the "abomination" actually was--as I said, this often gets conflated with the "abomination" of Antiochus 4, which was a very different situation.

It is my opinion that the Roman "abomination" was the Army itself, which Jesus said "stood around the city" in the "holy place," ie in the vicinity of Jerusalem. But the important point is that this did *not* refer to the Antichrist, which is a position often pushed today without much evidence from the passage itself.

I would add to my own thoughts here. There is, as I said, this conflation of the AoD of the Roman Army with the AoD of Antiochus 4. In the case of Antiochus 4, there were several abominable things about him, as well as several aspects of his desolation. He was an abominable Gentile pagan trespassing in the holy city of Jerusalem, setting his palatial tent outside of the vicinity of the temple, challenging the rule of God over these people.

He also forced a Hellenization of the worship, denying the Jews various traditions and rites under the Law and proper sacrificing in the temple. An altar to Zeus was erected and sacrifices made to an image of himself. He also murdered 40 thousand people, and sold many into slavery. This was the desolation--not a complete destruction of the city and the sanctuary, but a desolation nonetheless.

By contrast, the Roman AoD brought about the physical destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and later a destruction of the city (135 AD). They also caused the death of perhaps a million people. No image of Caesar was set up in the temple in 70 AD, when the temple was destroyed. Worship was not Hellenized, nor paganized. A Jewish rebellion was put down.

What made the Romans an "abomination" was that they were pagan Gentiles, usurping the OT worship system by destroying it--not by perverting it. They were themselves the "abomination" because they stood in the vicinity of the temple, challenging God's place in the city and in the temple. In fact, God had conceded His place there to the Romans, as a judgment against Israel. The Roman Army, therefore, was the "abomination of desolation," predicted in Dan 9.26-27.

It is argued, by some, that "standing in the holy place" is a phrase used by Jesus to indicate that the Antichrist would seat himself in the Jewish Temple, proclaiming himself to be God, as Paul indicated in 2 Thes 2. However, this assumes that the Roman "abomination" would not be a complete desolation of the OT temple, but rather, a temporary destruction, until it is rebuilt and a future Antichrist takes his seat there.

Again, this is a conflation with the AoD of Antiochus, who did indeed install false worship in the temple and in Jerusalem. As I said, this Roman AoD was similar, but different, inasmuch as the temple would be completely destroyed.

And as we know, the OT system was intended, by God, to be completely and eternally replaced by a NT system of worship. The temple, today, is spiritual, and consists of God's dwelling within His people, the Church. When Antichrist takes his seat in God's temple, it will likely be his attempt to usurp the Church by having a temple built exclusively to worship himself as God--perhaps having to do with the Image the False Prophet will set up (Rev 13).

The Roman Army will "stand in the holy place" only in the sense they will lay siege to Jerusalem in the vicinity of the temple, rather than seat themselves inside the temple as a form of idolatrous worship. The "holy place" largely referred to the Temple in the OT Scriptures. But in this context, Jesus spoke of the vicinity of the temple, since the temple itself was to be destroyed by the Romans. The "holy place" was not the temple, but rather, the area around Jerusalem where the Roman Army would be positioned to attack.
 

Bobby Jo

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I'm sorry man, I still think you're 1000 years too soon for that. ...
Ahhhhhhhhh, if it were only that simple:

I think I'll wake up tomorrow morning to find a FREE brand new Toyota Landcruiser delivered to my front door,
I think my wife will wake up and cook me waffles when she only does that for Father's Day and my Birthday.
I think ...

Perhaps you should grasp what GOD THINKS and provides in Scripture, -- instead of what you wish to IMAGINE!
Bobby Jo
 
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Bobby Jo

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The Roman Army will "stand in the holy place" only in the sense they will lay siege to Jerusalem in the vicinity of the temple, rather than seat themselves inside the temple as a form of idolatrous worship. The "holy place" largely referred to the Temple in the OT Scriptures. But in this context, Jesus spoke of the vicinity of the temple, since the temple itself was to be destroyed by the Romans. The "holy place" was not the temple, but rather, the area around Jerusalem where the Roman Army would be positioned to attack.

Yep, there's no preterism around here ...


Whew,
Bobby Jo
 

Davy

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Joel Osteen is well studied and he blurts out some of the most horrendous uses of scripture for his purposes, and so is Satan as a matter a fact, so giving me your self witness don't mean anything.

anyway if Paul isn't talking about the scattering in romans 9 as you say, then why are you using his quotes to talk about the scattering?

I'm not required to bend down to you. If you want to know what the Scripture I quoted actually says, go read and study it, instead of trying to make up a bunch b.s.!
 

Timtofly

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read the history Titus had the city Jerusalem under siege for a time then moved in towered the temple and after taking out the defenders of the temple he sacrificed pigs which is an abomination, then destroyed the temple and the city. historic fact are facts, which are the truth of a matter your gibberish is nothing more then what you just condemned in your previous posting to me.
That is not what Josephus records. Whose history are you reading?
 

Timtofly

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I would add to my own thoughts here. There is, as I said, this conflation of the AoD of the Roman Army with the AoD of Antiochus 4. In the case of Antiochus 4, there were several abominable things about him, as well as several aspects of his desolation. He was an abominable Gentile pagan trespassing in the holy city of Jerusalem, setting his palatial tent outside of the vicinity of the temple, challenging the rule of God over these people.

He also forced a Hellenization of the worship, denying the Jews various traditions and rites under the Law and proper sacrificing in the temple. An altar to Zeus was erected and sacrifices made to an image of himself. He also murdered 40 thousand people, and sold many into slavery. This was the desolation--not a complete destruction of the city and the sanctuary, but a desolation nonetheless.

By contrast, the Roman AoD brought about the physical destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and later a destruction of the city (135 AD). They also caused the death of perhaps a million people. No image of Caesar was set up in the temple in 70 AD, when the temple was destroyed. Worship was not Hellenized, nor paganized. A Jewish rebellion was put down.

What made the Romans an "abomination" was that they were pagan Gentiles, usurping the OT worship system by destroying it--not by perverting it. They were themselves the "abomination" because they stood in the vicinity of the temple, challenging God's place in the city and in the temple. In fact, God had conceded His place there to the Romans, as a judgment against Israel. The Roman Army, therefore, was the "abomination of desolation," predicted in Dan 9.26-27.

It is argued, by some, that "standing in the holy place" is a phrase used by Jesus to indicate that the Antichrist would seat himself in the Jewish Temple, proclaiming himself to be God, as Paul indicated in 2 Thes 2. However, this assumes that the Roman "abomination" would not be a complete desolation of the OT temple, but rather, a temporary destruction, until it is rebuilt and a future Antichrist takes his seat there.

Again, this is a conflation with the AoD of Antiochus, who did indeed install false worship in the temple and in Jerusalem. As I said, this Roman AoD was similar, but different, inasmuch as the temple would be completely destroyed.

And as we know, the OT system was intended, by God, to be completely and eternally replaced by a NT system of worship. The temple, today, is spiritual, and consists of God's dwelling within His people, the Church. When Antichrist takes his seat in God's temple, it will likely be his attempt to usurp the Church by having a temple built exclusively to worship himself as God--perhaps having to do with the Image the False Prophet will set up (Rev 13).

The Roman Army will "stand in the holy place" only in the sense they will lay siege to Jerusalem in the vicinity of the temple, rather than seat themselves inside the temple as a form of idolatrous worship. The "holy place" largely referred to the Temple in the OT Scriptures. But in this context, Jesus spoke of the vicinity of the temple, since the temple itself was to be destroyed by the Romans. The "holy place" was not the temple, but rather, the area around Jerusalem where the Roman Army would be positioned to attack.
John in Revelation skips over Rome, because it was "the present" to when the 7 letters were sent out. Rome was not even relative.

John implies the former person again as a False Prophet, again under Satan's power, again sets up an image in a "holy place". This is after the Second Coming. We are not told that during the harvest when Jesus Christ is present on the earth what happens in the 7 thunders. Why do some feel a brick building is even needed?

I realize that some will just see this as assumption, which is ok. The harvest is over. Jesus is preparing a celebration. The tabernacle is once more built, or Jesus goes more elaborate and in a few weeks a Temple is built that would out shine even Solomon’s. The week of Celebration is prepared and a date set. Then a month prior, the false prophet shows up. Introduces his buddy Satan to the world. The Celebration week starts, and 3.5 days in there is the overthrow of the Believers in Jerusalem. Any truce was broken, and God allows Jesus to retreat and allows Satan 42 months. It is then an image of this FP is again placed in the Holy Place. Except this time God allows Satan to breath life into the image, and the image becomes a living beast. Not human but human in form. This is Satan's messiah, antichrist. This period ends with the 7 vials and the battle of Armageddon. The error with modern eschatology is they place the Antichrist first and Jesus Christ at the very last hour. Jesus said to look and wait for His return and it would be before the AoD. Not a last hour rescue mission. The church has been taught for decades to look and anticipate the wrong event. John puts the thief in the night warning, not as a marker of a last minute save. Because by that time it will be known to the day and hour. John places the warning because it points back to the actual Second Coming where all should be prepared but are not. Instead of being a warning, eschatology has turned it into the main event and this also is evident because John knew it would happen any way, and placing the warning there indicates, they would preach that no matter what he wrote. John could not correct the error of modern eschatology, even if he wanted to. God told him to seal up the thunders and in eating his own writings it was a bitter result, even though the knowledge would have been tasty.

The church was left not knowing thus free to fail or resist Satan without any foreknowledge or coercion by God. Yet the warning that John did give seems like the best excuse they have of been totally wrong and apostate. God also knew that as well as John, yet God left that verse in the Bible.

Any can accept my post or reject it. Only time will tell, or when that which was sealed by both Daniel and John are revealed. If they are unsealed after the Second Coming, then God did not intervene but gave the church exactly what they prayed and asked Him for.
 

Bobby Jo

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PS . and dont bow before rome and her all inclusive unity either . Just saying . She is not the solution or the answer .

ROME's DEAD, and has been for about 1,500 years. Another occupies that ancient geography, and we don't send our taxes to that new resident.

So if you're concerned about ROME, you don't understand either History or Scripture! :)
Bobby Jo