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Featured abomination of desolation?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by DPMartin, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Ah, John 14. Are you aware the idea of the "mansions" there is about 'abodes' per the Greek? and those are written about in the future temple of Ezekiel in God's "house" on earth for Christ's future Millennium? See Ezekiel 40 thru 47. The pre-trib rapture doctors don't do their required Bible study in the OT prophets like they are supposed to.

    Yeah, that's what kicks off the time of great tribulation according to Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse. He quoted about it from the Book of Daniel.

    In reality, that's not what God's Word is teaching, because the Greek for KJV "air" in the 1 Thess.4:17 is aer meaning 'the breath' (Strong's no.109). It is pointing to the "spiritual body" Apostle Paul taught in the 1 Cor.15 chapter.

    When Jesus descends from Heaven to the earth, He brings the asleep saints that had already died back with Him when He comes. Then those of us still alive on earth are "caught up" with them in the clouds, and then we ALL go with Jesus to Jerusalem on earth, which is what Zechariah 14 reveals, His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. That may seem like a lot of info, but I am keeping strictly with the Scriptures of God's Word on all that.

    Rev 5:10
    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
    KJV

    Rev 20:6
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
    KJV
     
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  2. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Preterist. I just agree with them on some things. I'm sure you and I agree on some things. But it doesn't mean either one of us is in the cult of Bobby Jo or Randy, does it?

    So I'm not of the Preterist School, which holds that both the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation is all about the 1st few centuries of the Church. I do agree with some of this. The Olivet Discourse does mention Christ's Return, but the focus is largely upon the 1st century and the fall of the Jewish religion. But the Book of Revelation is largely about the endtimes, including the future 3.5 year reign of Antichrist and the 2nd Coming of Christ to defeat Antichrist. As I said, I'm not a Preterist.

    Some fail to see that two dreams in the book of Daniel confirm the importance of Rome, the 4th Kingdom. This Kingdom killed Christ and persecuted the apostles. This Kingdom did fall, in the West, in 476 AD. But Roman imperial tradition continued in the East up until 1453 AD. But nobody from outside of the Empire filled the vacuum. Barbarians entered into that region, but were absorbed into the Roman culture that lingered.

    Ultimately, the Holy Roman Empire revived the Roman Christian culture, perpetuating, I believe, the "4th Kingdom" of Daniel 2 and 7. Ultimately, 10 nations out of Europe will coalesce, I believe, into the Antichristian Empire. We're probably not too far off from there, since Christianity in Europe is presently in serious decline.

    Incidentally, the Apostle John, in writing the Revelation, spoke cryptically of Rome, since he was currently imprisoned within that system. The number of the beast translates into the original king of Rome, which tells you the Antichrist will be of European origin. And the prophecy of Harlot Babylon has several markers, given as puzzles, to explain that this has to do with the city and state of Rome.
     
  3. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Yep, -- the angel in 12:4 & 9 is one of those who FAILED to see ROME. That silly angel was so confused that he said the prophecies are for the era approximate to 1948.

    And if you CORRECT that angel, I'm quite certain he'll appreciate it! :)
    Bobby Jo
     
  4. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    Nothing's silly to me about trying to interpret difficult prophecies. Rev 12 is one of those prophecies. Figuring out its time period is difficult. It seems to refer to the birth of Christ, which was in about 4 BC. And then the scene switches to the endtimes, when the Antichrist reigns for 3.5 years. Actually, the account extends past ch. 12 into ch. 13.

    I have no idea why you think 1948 plays in this, except that that's the year the UN recognized Israel's legitimacy as a Jewish State? I have no interest in "correcting angels," nor should you. I do think it's possible that the "Woman" may refer to Israel, although I do believe she would have to refer to Jewish *believers.*

    Israel of old went into the Wilderness before entering into their Promised Land. It could be that the vision is referring to some kind of endtimes "wilderness," necessary before Israel's final salvation as a nation can take place? Let me know what you think?
     
  5. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"

    This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27.

    The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

    Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

    The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ.

    The world will be deceived when Satan claims himself to be Christ, for he does have supernatural powers, and he will use them to to draw the peoples of the world to come to peace. He will say, I am Jesus whom ye have been waiting for, and I have come to bring peace to the world, and the world will be brought to peace and prosperity by Satan, the Antichrist. I feel that this time of world peace will come in a matter of months, or a few years. It will come though.

    How did Jesus tell us His coming would be at the second advent? Revelation 19:15, 19 tell us how Jesus will come back to earth, at His second coming:

    Revelation 19:15; "And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

    Jesus will come with a sharp sword to smite the nations of the earth. He will subdue them like grapes in the winepress, not some sweet mushy talk of peace. Jesus shall rule over them with a rod of Iron, because at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the start of the Millennium age. That thousand year age kingdom of Christ will be a time of learning and discipline, there will be no flesh on earth, for all will be changed to their incorruptible bodies, and will be of full sound mind, and capable of learning and understand what is being taught them.

    "(Whoso readeth, let him understand:)" This is the statement that has the same meaning as," whosoever heareth, let him understand".

    matthew24
     
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  6. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    See? You don't know hardly ANYTHING about Bible Prophecy, but then make preposterous statements.

    Maybe, just MAYBE, if you understood MORE you'd have something to SHARE, versus something to GUESS AT. -- OR NOT! :)
    Bobby Jo
     
  7. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    So which one is the problem, -- you can't READ, or can't HEAR --, because you certainly don't UNDERSTAND?

    Bobby Jo
     
  8. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    I know a lot about Bible Prophecy. My statements are not preposterous. You are also guessing.
     
  9. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Once again you have no clue what you're talking about, because if you did you would KNOW that Scripture is not "guessing". But you don't know what you don't know, yet you speak and then presume everyone else is ALSO GUESSING.

    Someone once said regarding knowledge: Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is forever. And I'm not accusing anyone of "stupidity" but there are a LOT of Ignorant people.

    Bobby Jo
     
  10. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    For all your analysis of others and the third person you attempt to hide behind BJ, are you not aware of where you stand?
     
  11. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    We're all a little bit ignorant. And yes, we have to guess quite a bit, unless like the apostles who spent intimate time with Jesus. But I know probably as much as anybody here about these things, including you. I just won't pretend to have it all down pat.

    By the way, it would be better to discuss the reasons for what we believe than talk about how "stupid" anybody is. I'm trying to maintain an attitude of building you up--not tearing you down. And I would hope you do the same with me?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Do you,I'm good....
     
  13. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    It is the image from Rev. 13:14-15 and is what Christ is referencing in Matt. 24 which is from Dan. 11:31.
     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    This creation is one abode. It is not talking about heaven. Heaven is part of the current abode. It means God has many created existences. Jesus was part of this creation as the Word. Jesus was explaining that God is outside of time. Jesus Christ was also involved in creating this reality.


    The church is not on earth in the next Millennium. Post trib do not study much either, cause they lump everything into an impossible scenario. They look at Revelation as being too symbolic and miss the literal events those symbols are pointing out.
     
  15. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    -- Certainly not those members who succumb to the Mark of the Beast ...
    Bobby Jo
     
  16. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a rebel who wants to roam the streets instead of listening to the Father. No member of the church succumbs. They went out from us because they never were part of us. Members who are not members are wolves.
     
  17. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Active Member

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    Abodes, mansions, houses, no matter. Jesus went there to prepare a place for us.

    If that was not true, would He have told us He is going there to prepare a place for us?

    "My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.​

    This is like Sesame Street:

    Here<------------>There

    I am Here, and I'm going There to make a place for you.

    So that I can come back Here and take you back There to be where I am.

    I won't mind if my mansion is just a house trailer in the shade of the tree of life that it may ever stand. Where I can just hear the angels sing and shake Jesus’ hand. Lord build me a cabin in the corner of Glory Land.

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days.

    "There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,​

    Someone else on this forum noticed the word used is siesmos. And there would be a great earthquake, a great tempest, a great siesmos. A great storm on the sea.

    Same word used in Matthew 8 when Jesus rebuked the winds.

    "And behold, there arose a great "storm" on the sea, so that the boat was being covered with the waves; but Jesus Himself was asleep.​

    Be careful not to miss the composite beast rising from the troubled sea of many peoples, multitudes, nations and languages on June 26, 2015.

    Are you afraid of heights Davy?

    Or are we getting our airs mixed up?

    ἀέρα (aera) IS the air we breathe. It's the air we breathe when we stand on the ground, and the air we would breathe if we were supported 100 or 200 feet above the ground. I'm not sure we'll even need to be breathing the air when we light up the stratosphere and the angels are sent to gather us from the four corners of the heavens.

    [the] air.
    ἀέρα (aera)
    Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
    Strong's Greek 109: Air, the lower air we breathe. From aemi; 'air'.

    Could be you're thinking of ἀέρος from Ephesians, the prince of the power of the "air". That's the spiritual air.

    Ephesians 2:2 N-GMS
    GRK: ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος
    NAS: of the power of the air, of the spirit
    KJV: of the power of the air, the spirit
    INT: authority of the air the spirit

    Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the masculine and the feminine of the Greek deal, the context is clear from a regular read, the Lord is coming in the clouds of the air, and we are caught UP to meet the Lord IN the air:

    "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.​

    I'm sorry man, I hate to tell you this.

    Your Revelation verses are obviously true. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. But that can't be until the 1000 years are finished and the earth is made new again.

    This part is elementary to me my dear Davy. I'm the old bar tender at closing time. And I am telling you, in the David and Goliath voice,:

    "You don't have to go home Davy, but you can't stay here".
    Because the great city is going to be split into three parts.

    All three thirds are going to be destroyed.

    The time is come for God to destroy the destroyers of the earth.

    When Paul says God, through Jesus, will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep, Paul's not talking about bringing them from heaven to earth, Paul is talking about resurrecting them and taking them all back with us to the Father's House with many rooms. New Jerusalem.

    God will bring back with Him the believers who have died. Like Daniel who is resting in the dust of the earth. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above, and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

    We are going to light up the stratosphere, billions of resurrected saints, and all the tribes of the earth are going to mourn at the sight of it.

    Lord build me a cabin in the corner of Glory Land.



    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You're only reading the John 14 Scripture in light of a pre-trib rapture theory, so naturally you think Lord Jesus is talking about taking the saints to Heaven. He's not, He is talking about God's House in the latter 9 chapters of the Book of Ezekiel, which will manifest with Christ's return. Per Ezekiel 47, that "house" is to be located on earth, and we are even given areas in the middle east where it will be located (near Biblical En-gedi). God's River of the waters of life will flow out from that sanctuary there, and heal all waters on earth it comes into contact with. The tree of life is shown manifest with it as the many trees on either side of that River. This River was once upon this earth per Genesis 2, flowing out of God's Garden of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, two of which still exist today (Euphrates and Tigris, or Hiddekel). So immediately, those Scriptures destroy man's false speculations of being taken to Heaven to live. Even the Revelation Scripture directly referred to that being on earth.

    Rev 22:1-2
    22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
    KJV

    Rev 22:14-15
    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
    KJV
     
  19. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    It is more than "simply searching out the answers", for because the Jews as a nation were faithless despite Jesus providing miraculous works in the cities of Capernaum, Chorazin and Bethsaida, Jesus said in prayer to Jehovah God: "In publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things (by encrypting Bible truths) from the wise and intellectual ones (or those who feel that academic status gives them an edge) and have revealed them to children (or humble ones who allow Jehovah's holy spirit to direct them rather than pushing ahead with their own personal view of Scripture). Yes, O Father, because this is the way approved by you (or making it impossible for unqualified ones to grasp what the Bible really says)".(Matt 11:25, 26)

    Hence, Jesus established that only a few would be able to understand what the Bible really says, as for example, what is the meaning of Genesis 3:15 ? Who is the "woman" there and who are her "offspring" ? Who is the "serpent" and who is his "offspring" ? And how does this tie in with Revelation 12:1-5 as well as Isaiah 54, 60, and 62 ?

    Or what about Daniel 11 concerning the "king of the north" and the "king of the south" that comes all the way down to our time frame ? Or what about "the arm of Jehovah" spoken of at Isaiah 51:9 ? Or what about Babylon the Great spoken of at Revelation 17 ?

    Or what is the meaning of the "tree" at Daniel 4 that is "cut down", banded with iron and copper and then seven times passed over it ? Or what is the meaning of Daniel 2 of an "immense image" of a man that is "crushed" by "a stone" so that the "stone" becomes a "mountain and fills the whole earth" ?

    Or what is the "small horn" that came forth from the "fourth beast" and had "eyes like human eyes" and "a mouth speaking arrogantly" at Daniel 7:8 ? And how did this "small horn" make war upon the "holy ones" at Daniel 7:21 ? And when is the time for the "holy ones" to take possession of the kingdom at Daniel 7:22 ?

    Or what about "the wild beast" that is spoken of at Revelation 13:1, 2 and is the pawn of "the dragon" ? Who are "the earth" at Revelation 13:4 that "worships the wild beast" ? Who are the "holy ones" that is "victorious over the wild beast and its image" ?(Rev 15:2) Or what is the "sea" spoken of by Jesus at Luke 21:25, as well as "the sun, moon, and stars" ?

    Or what, as stated before, are "the sacred secrets of the Kingdom" that Jesus said that only his genuine disciples would grasp ?(Matt 13:11) Or what is Armageddon that is spoken of at Revelation 16:16 ? And who is the "scarlet-colored wild beast" spoken of at Revelation 17:3, upon which rides "the great prostitute" that has "kingdom over the kings of the earth" ?(Rev 17:18)

    And these are just a few of the questions that need to be answered accurately, not just "a shot in the dark". At Daniel 12, an angel told Daniel: "Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined.(who are these ?) And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight (see Dan 12:3) will understand".(Dan 12:9, 10)
     
  20. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    you don't get it, its not encrypted to be hidden, one's own judgement blinds thy self. just as the man who thinks himself wise is not wise because he thinks he's wise.

    you see it everyday amongst so called Christians to them their god is what they think he should be according to their own judgment of what is good and evil. this site here accommodates such postings 24/7. the Jews refused a Messiah that didn't take the throne of David because in their own judgment of what a Messiah is to do is to take the throne which is what would be good for themselves in their own judgement. they didn't care about the salvation of their souls, their lives in this world was more important.

    how many people will declare Jesus as long as its good for their lives or improves their lives in the world according to their own judgement.

    if you live by God's Judgement, you live in the Light of God, that is what Job knew that many don't understand that say their faith is in the Lord God.
     
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