abomination of desolation?

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Heyzeus

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... Dan. Chapter 12, verses 4 & 9 -- 12:4 & 9


Simple question, -- How many kingdoms in Dan. 2?

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4.a. Iron, Roman
4.b. Clay, Revived Roman -- or some variation --

AGREED?
Bobby Jo


OK but what is the revived Roman .. and while only 150 years in between each of 1 through 4 .. been 2000 years since 4a.
 

Randy Kluth

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It ain't the duration, it's the inspiration.

True enough.

Tell that to the angel in 12: 4 & 9. I'm sure he'll see things your way once you explain it to him.

I have no relationship with any "angel." I may have met one, but I have no control over that.

It certainly isn't what YOU intended for us to do. But if GOD didn't, then HE wouldn't have given us the information.

That's a good question: What did God intend for us to do with this information? I think the Antichrist tells us we need to be on our guard. The 2 Witnesses tell us that the world will have received prior warning.

BOTH which your butcher.

You are an odd one, aren't you. I don't think any of us want to misinterpret the Bible or prophecy.

If Bible Prophecy isn't for TODAY, then it doesn't exist.
Bobby Jo

It is for today, brother. We just have to look at the world consistent with a proper understanding of Dan 2 and 7. We are in the days of the 4th Beast, in my view, and Antichrist is soon to come. We should be doing the job of the 2 Witnesses, though we are not them. But what they will do sets the precedent for what we should be doing, namely resisting the Antichrists of our own day, and proclaiming the victory of the Kingdom of Christ. I think we should be able to agree on something close to that?
 

Bobby Jo

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OK but what is the revived Roman .. and while only 150 years in between each of 1 through 4 .. been 2000 years since 4a.

What is the Revived Roman Empire? | GotQuestions.org
Question: "What is the Revived Roman Empire?"

Answer:
The term Revived Roman Empire (which is not used in Scripture) refers to a powerful government predicted in biblical prophecy. This regime will rise to power and dominate the world during the end times. According to various interpretations of the books of Daniel and Revelation, the Revived Roman Empire is either a generic world political system or a specific nation under a specific ruler. Various interpreters have centered this empire in Rome itself, in Turkey, or in the Middle East.

The Revived Roman Empire is commonly associated with the fourth beast of Daniel chapter 7. This beast is described as “terrifying and frightening and very powerful” (Daniel 7:7). This ten-horned beast is a prophetic picture of the Roman Empire (verses 19–24), but, as Daniel watches, a little horn rises from the beast, with “eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully” (verse 8). This final horn is the Antichrist, who will somehow be connected with the Roman Empire. Since the Roman Empire has been defunct since the fifth century, we expect it to be “revived” in some way to fulfill the end-times’ prophecies.

The Revived Roman Empire has also been linked to the fifth and final kingdom mentioned in Daniel chapter 2 (Daniel 2:41—43). This passage concerns Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of an image made of various metals. The iron legs represent the Roman Empire, and the feet made “partly of iron and partly of baked clay” (Daniel 2:33) represent the final world empire. The fact that it shares the element iron with the fourth kingdom suggests a connection to Rome, and the ten toes could imply a ten-nation confederacy (matching the ten horns in Daniel 7:20) led collectively by a single powerful ruler.

Bobby Jo
 

Heyzeus

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What is the Revived Roman Empire? | GotQuestions.org
Question: "What is the Revived Roman Empire?"

Answer: The term Revived Roman Empire (which is not used in Scripture) refers to a powerful government predicted in biblical prophecy. This regime will rise to power and dominate the world during the end times. According to various interpretations of the books of Daniel and Revelation, the Revived Roman Empire is either a generic world political system or a specific nation under a specific ruler. Various interpreters have centered this empire in Rome itself, in Turkey, or in the Middle East.

The Revived Roman Empire is commonly associated with the fourth beast of Daniel chapter 7. This beast is described as “terrifying and frightening and very powerful” (Daniel 7:7). This ten-horned beast is a prophetic picture of the Roman Empire (verses 19–24), but, as Daniel watches, a little horn rises from the beast, with “eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully” (verse 8). This final horn is the Antichrist, who will somehow be connected with the Roman Empire. Since the Roman Empire has been defunct since the fifth century, we expect it to be “revived” in some way to fulfill the end-times’ prophecies.

The Revived Roman Empire has also been linked to the fifth and final kingdom mentioned in Daniel chapter 2 (Daniel 2:41—43). This passage concerns Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of an image made of various metals. The iron legs represent the Roman Empire, and the feet made “partly of iron and partly of baked clay” (Daniel 2:33) represent the final world empire. The fact that it shares the element iron with the fourth kingdom suggests a connection to Rome, and the ten toes could imply a ten-nation confederacy (matching the ten horns in Daniel 7:20) led collectively by a single powerful ruler.

Bobby Jo

Fair enough but - the time element is a problem ... as has been 2000 years - and this is still very vague.
 

DPMartin

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This trips me up so much. Nero himself could be considered at the very least, "an" antichrist. As well as many who have followed him, like Hilter, and those like him. This seems such an important thing- considering all that was written in Matthew 24- for Christians to have down pat! But then again my thoughts go to, He knows who are His and His sheep know HIS voice. A tough theological web, IMO.

basically theology is of men and theological isn't history, and what Paul describes was happening or in progress at the time he wrote it. Paul's relationship with the Lord would most certainly let Paul know what he was dealing with considering he was sent to spear head the gospel into the gentile world.

you have to take into consideration in the past hundred-ish years the denominations especially those created here in north America base much of their views as if the bible was written to them. it maybe this was to keep the membership interested if they think its all about them, but that's pretty much how it stands and that line of thinking has permeated through out the general theology in north America. the bible was written to Jews by Jews except for epistles to gentile churches (that are grated in via faith of Abraham) in the NT that are written by Jews.

and most if not all prophecy is from God's view in Heaven at His chosen place in the earth (His footstool) Jerusalem.
 
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Davy

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Many people believe this man of lawlessness is an individual, but this man of lawlessness began during the Apostles time and became more intense after the Apostles died and has continued down to our day. This man of lawlessness has existed for centuries so I don't believe the man of lawlessness is a individual. The scriptures say that in the last days which means during the second presence of Jesus Christ this man of lawlessness will be revealed. That doesn't mean this man of lawlessness hasn't been in existence but that people who have faith will be able to distinguish this man of lawlessness to be just that during that time. Those who have faith will be able to distinguish this man of lawlessness as part of the spirit of the antichrist.

That's strange, since Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 the "man of sin" wouldn't be revealed until the very end of this world, since he showed that it is Lord Jesus' return that destroys him per 2 Thessalonians 2:8 with the "brightness of His coming".
 

Davy

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interesting how there is much talk of the law being done away with amongst those who espouse vision yet at the same time great flourishes are made on the man of lawlessness and in so doing admitting that lawlessness is a bad thing.

The logic....If the law has been done away with then no law (lawlessness) is not bad because it no longer exists.

This shot in the foot ensures one goes nowhere except in circles in ones own inconsistencies.

What you both sound like are extremists regarding understanding about God's law per The New Covenant. Those you speak that say all the law is done away with is one extreme, and those who say all the law is not done away with (like many Messianic Jews) are on the other extreme.

The reality per New Covenant doctrine is that Jesus nailed the handwriting of ordinances in the law to His cross. He didn't do away with God's laws against murder, rape, thefts, perjury, etc., like what Apostle Paul declared to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1.

Also, in Galatians 5 and in Romans, Paul made it plain that IF... we walk by The Spirit, then 'we'... are dead to the law. Those who say instead that the law is dead are Satan's host and the deceived that have listened to antichrists.
 

DPMartin

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The same thing happens during the time of Maccabees - and Jesus is saying that this will happen again .. which alludes to the Destruction of the Temple by the Romans.

that line of thinking is not imposable but, Israel was removed from its land as a nation only twice in its history, Nebuchadnezzar trashed everything and if my memory serves there's no documentation of desecration of the first temple only the robbery and destruction. then Titus trashed everything that did both abomination and desolation of Jerusalem. therefore two tribulations in a Israeli view and Daniel was near the end of the first. and there is only two temples granted the Greeks did do the deed when it came to abomination temple wise, but there's no notable destruction or "desolation" involved, the temple still stood and Jerusalem was still basically intact.
 

Bobby Jo

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Fair enough...

Ummmmmmmm, WRONG!

If you read the "commentary" carefully, you should discover that they ascribe Dan. 2 as parallel with Dan. 7. And they assert FIVE for Dan. 2 by using the 4a/4b, but verse 45 says: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE, not 4a/4b. Furthermore HISTORY substantiates that we are in a FIFTH DISTINCT "Divided Kingdom" which consists of some number of Superpowers and a United Nations.

So we KNOW that FIVE ≠ FOUR, -- thus Dan. 2 IS NOT parallel to with Dan. 7; and Dan. 7 CORRECTLY depicts our THREE Superpowers and the United Nations.

but - the time element is a problem ... as has been 2000 years - and this is still very vague.

This is EASILY solved using the Prophetic Psalms, as proposed by J.R. Church in his book "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms". -- Are you familiar with that concept?

Bobby Jo
 
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Davy

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Fair enough but - the time element is a problem ... as has been 2000 years - and this is still very vague.

They (followers of modern Reformers beliefs on Rome) don't really understand about the final beast of the feet of ten toes of part iron and part clay.

Just because the 4th piece of the beast statue in Daniel 2 was the "legs of iron", and represented the old pagan Roman empire, they apply the final beast to Rome again, but actually because of some OTHER idea they want to believe...

The Protestant Reformers wrongly believed the pope was the Antichrist that's to come at the end of the world. That was not true then, nor is the pope today the Antichrist. But their modern-day followers refuse to change on that. They still are determined to hold to the old Reformers' false belief about the Roman Church. The Protestant reformers had ample reason to think the pope then was the Antichrist, because the Roman Church literally persecuted the Protestants back then, seeking to execute them. So the Protestants then thought the tribulation had begun. It was not the "great tribulation" though, and Jesus' 2nd coming didn't happen either.

What really happened, is that the Roman Church fell into corruption, and Martin Luther's writings in the 1500's helped foment the Protestant revolution, while Luther was actually looking for the Roman Church to change its man-made corruptions and get back to The Scriptures, and not so as to overthrow the Roman Church like its leaders wrongly assumed. Pagan Rome actually became Christianized through emperor Constantine's reign around 330 A.D., so Rome being pagan until the 5th century is actually another one of modern Reformer's little twists of the truth. The Roman Church today still has many of the corruptions it had that Luther wrote against, so it has not really changed on that. But there are also Protestant Churches today that are guilty of the same thing with their teachings of the doctrines of men.

Christ's Revelation is pointing directly to JERUSALEM for the seat of the coming Antichrist at the end leading up to Christ's return, not Rome. The Daniel 2 description of ALL of the beast statue pieces being 'together' when Jesus returns to smite it upon its feet is pointing to ALL the previous beast kingdoms being together for the end. A more modern term for that is "one world government", or "the new world order". Jerusalem is being prepared to be the center of that future one world beast kingdom, which is why the orthodox Jews are preparing to build the third temple today. Paul showed the coming Antichrist must be revealed sitting in that future temple in Jerusalem for the end claiming to be God (2 Thess.2).
 

Davy

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basically theology is of men and theological isn't history, and what Paul describes was happening or in progress at the time he wrote it. Paul's relationship with the Lord would most certainly let Paul know what he was dealing with considering he was sent to spear head the gospel into the gentile world.

you have to take into consideration in the past hundred-ish years the denominations especially those created here in north America base much of their views as if the bible was written to them. it maybe this was to keep the membership interested if they think its all about them, but that's pretty much how it stands and that line of thinking has permeated through out the general theology in north America. the bible was written to Jews by Jews except for epistles to gentile churches (that are grated in via faith of Abraham) in the NT that are written by Jews.

and most if not all prophecy is from God's view in Heaven at His chosen place in the earth (His footstool) Jerusalem.

Pretty much NOT... what The Bible teaches at all.

God's Word declares the scattering of the 12 tribes of Israel among the Gentiles, and Apostle Paul quoted to Roman Gentile believers prophecy in Hosea originally given only to the ten northern tribes of Israel (see Romans 9). That reveals God's promises to His Israel involve Christ's Church!

Men's theories of Dispensationalism is what started all the baloney doctrines of men that only Paul's Epistles are relevant to the Church. Neither Paul nor God's Word anywhere taught such a stupid doctrine.
 

Davy

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that line of thinking is not imposable but, Israel was removed from its land as a nation only twice in its history, Nebuchadnezzar trashed everything and if my memory serves there's no documentation of desecration of the first temple only the robbery and destruction. then Titus trashed everything that did both abomination and desolation of Jerusalem. therefore two tribulations in a Israeli view and Daniel was near the end of the first. and there is only two temples granted the Greeks did do the deed when it came to abomination temple wise, but there's no notable destruction or "desolation" involved, the temple still stood and Jerusalem was still basically intact.

More baloney ideas.

The 2nd temple which the Romans under Titus destroyed, burned down before the Romans could get possession of it. So there was NO 'abomination' idea setup in the temple like what Antiochus IV did in 165 B.C. with ending sacrifices and sacrificing swine upon the altar inside the temple, and then setting up an idol abomination in false Zeus worship instead (see the Jewish historian Josephus - 100 A.D.).

And the idea of 'desolation' per the "abomination of desolation" term is about SPIRITUAL DESOLATION with setting up an idol abomination in the Jewish temple. It is NOT about the idea of physical destruction of the temple!
 

DPMartin

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Pretty much NOT... what The Bible teaches at all.

God's Word declares the scattering of the 12 tribes of Israel among the Gentiles, and Apostle Paul quoted to Roman Gentile believers prophecy in Hosea originally given only to the ten northern tribes of Israel (see Romans 9). That reveals God's promises to His Israel involve Christ's Church!

Men's theories of Dispensationalism is what started all the baloney doctrines of men that only Paul's Epistles are relevant to the Church. Neither Paul nor God's Word anywhere taught such a stupid doctrine.

where is that in romans 9 where Paul speaks of 10 tribes being scattered? and just what doctrine are you yakking about. your posting doesn't make sense and is certainly off subject.
 

DPMartin

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More baloney ideas.

The 2nd temple which the Romans under Titus destroyed, burned down before the Romans could get possession of it. So there was NO 'abomination' idea setup in the temple like what Antiochus IV did in 165 B.C. with ending sacrifices and sacrificing swine upon the altar inside the temple, and then setting up an idol abomination in false Zeus worship instead (see the Jewish historian Josephus - 100 A.D.).

And the idea of 'desolation' per the "abomination of desolation" term is about SPIRITUAL DESOLATION with setting up an idol abomination in the Jewish temple. It is NOT about the idea of physical destruction of the temple!


read the history Titus had the city Jerusalem under siege for a time then moved in towered the temple and after taking out the defenders of the temple he sacrificed pigs which is an abomination, then destroyed the temple and the city. historic fact are facts, which are the truth of a matter your gibberish is nothing more then what you just condemned in your previous posting to me.
 

Guestman

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does anyone have solid scripture and or history, that defines what abomination that maketh desolate actually is?

To start with, concerning grasping "the sacred secrets ("mysteries", KJV) of the Kingdom" or truths of the Bible, Jesus used the Greek word syniemi six times at Matthew 13 (verses 13-15, 19, 23, 51) that literally means "to mentally put the pieces together". So, who is able to "mentally put the pieces together" when it comes to the Bible and its deep meanings and prophetic statements ?

At Matthew 11, Jesus establishes the ones who can unlock the "sacred secrets of the Kingdom" (which is the basic theme of the Bible, for understanding it opens the door to the rest of the Bible), saying in prayer: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things (concerning the "Kingdom", verses 7-15) from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children" (or evident that God [whose personal name is Jehovah, Ps 83:18) has revealed his purposes to humble ones [who make a serious study of the Bible without bias, correcting their view when they see that they are wrong] and hidden from haughty ones who seek their own glory and never change their view, even when they know it is wrong).(Matt 11:25)

Jesus further says: "Yes, O Father, because this is the way approved by you" (of unveiling his Bible truths only to those who exhibit humility, which is rare).(Matt 11:26)

So the account that you are referring to is found at Daniel 9:27 (that actually starts at verse 24 to establish when the Messiah would arrive who would be rejected by the Jews [see Ps 118:22, 23 that Jesus quotes from at Matt 21:42] that brought on them the "overspreading of abominations he shall make desolate", KJV), that Jesus also used as his backdrop at Matthew 24:15-21 and Luke 21:20-28, about "the great tribulation" soon to come.

A modern English translation of the Bible reads at Daniel 9:26, 27: "And after 62 weeks (of years or 434 years + "seven weeks" of years or 49 years that equals 483 years [see verse 25] that began in 455 B.C.E. when the walls of Jerusalem were repaired by Nehemiah in the 20th year of Artaxerxes [Neh 2:1; 6:15], son of Xerxes I that was Queen Esther's husband [Es 1:1; 2:17], that was the beginning of "the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem"), Messiah will be cut off (in death), with nothing for himself. And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations".(verse 26) "

Verse 27 states: "And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week (or seven years); and at the half of the (70th) week (or 3 1/2 years), he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate".(New World Translation; Note: the "day for a year" was established by Jehovah God at Num 14:34 in 1512 B.C.E.[or in the second year after the Israelites left Egypt, Num 9:1], long before the book of Daniel was completed in about 536 B.C.E [Dan 10:1], and also again at Eze 4:6)

So, according to the angel's words, the 70 weeks" would be divided into three periods: (1) "7 weeks", (2) "62 weeks", and (3) "one week".
Now, what does this all mean ? At Daniel 9:24, it says that "70 weeks" (of years or 490 years) had been determined for Daniel's people (being the nation of fleshly Israel when an angel visited Daniel in about 539 B.C.E., until they were abandoned by Jehovah, Matt 23:37-39, and replaced at Jesus death and resurrection in 33 C.E. with a new "nation" [Matt 21:42, 43; see also Isa 66:7-10] called "the Israel of God" or spiritual Israel [Gal 6:16, that is composed of both Jews and Gentiles, see Rom 11:1, 11-13, 17], brought into existence by the "new covenant" that replaced the Mosaic Law covenant, Heb 8:13; see also Jer 31:31-34) and his holy city of Jerusalem (that would also change from the literal city of Jerusalem to a symbolic "New Jerusalem", see Rev 3:12 and 21:1; see also Gal 4:21-26), "in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin (by means of Jesus ransom sacrifice that ' finished off sin ' as ' ruling as king ' over obedient ones [Rom 5:14], that our forefather Adam brought on us as his offspring, Rom 5:12), to make atonement for error (or provide the perfect atonement by means of Jesus shed blood that required only one sacrifice, see Heb 9:26), to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy (or make an accurate understanding of prophesy unattainable or "sealed up until the time of the end", our time frame since 1914, Dan 12:4), and to anoint the Holy of Holies (or the "Most Holy" with Jesus perfect blood in 33 C.E. [represented by the bull's blood that was splattered seven times before the Ark of the covenant inside the curtain, Lev 16:2, 14], that is, before Jehovah himself, Heb 9:24)".

At Daniel 9:25, it then establishes the beginning of the 70 weeks of years as "from the issuing of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem (in 455 B.C.E. or king Artaxerxes 20th year, Neh 2:1-3) until Messiah the Leader (in 29 C.E. or during the reign of Tiberius Caesar, see Dan 11:21, 22), there will be 7 weeks (of years, or 49 years, starting with the rebuilding of the walls that was completed in 52 days, Neh 2:13; 6:15, with the rebuilding of the rest of Jerusalem being completed afterward over this 49 year period or until 406 B.C.E.), also 62 weeks (of years or 434 years + the 49 years equaling 483 years that will complete the time for the Messiah to arrive and begin preparation for the selection for the 144,000 anointed members of God's Kingdom, Rev 14:1-3, whereby its first members were chosen on Pentecost 33 C.E., Acts 2:4). She (or Jerusalem) will be restored and rebuilt, with a public square (for people just mill about and share the latest "news" or gossip, as well as a marketplace to buy goods, making it feel like it once was, "home", compare Jer 7:34) and moat, but in times of distress" (caused by enemies of the Jews, see Neh 2:19, 20).

At Daniel 9:26, it says: "And after 62 weeks (+ 7 weeks of years), Messiah will be cut off (in death), with nothing for himself (just suffering and then death on a torture stake [see Mark 9:12], having not received the crown to God's Kingdom at that time, but would have to wait for almost 1,900 years until 1914, see Dan 7:13, 14; Luke 19:11-27 and Rev 6:1, 2).

"And the people (or the Roman legions) of a leader (that proved first to be the governor of Syria, Cestius Gallus in 66 C.E., that was followed by Vespasian in 68 C.E. but returned to Rome to vie for emperor after the death of Nero in 68 C.E., so that his son Titus took control of the Roman armies) who is coming (after the Jewish Revolt in 66 C.E. set in motion the crushing of this rebellion by Rome through Cestius Gallus, who unexpectantly withdrew from Jerusalem in 66 C.E. after having almost secured victory [that allowed for Jesus words at Luke 21:20-22 to be fulfilled for Christians who fled during the next few days before the return of the Jewish Zealots who had slaughtered Cestius Gallus and his troops at Beth-Horon, about 10 miles northwest of Jerusalem, and then the Jewish Zealots prevented anyone from leaving the city]) will destroy the city and the holy place (in 70 C.E. by Roman armies under General Titus, that lasted from April 3 to August 30, 70 C.E., and the destruction was so complete that only the towers of Herod's palace and a portion of the western wall was left standing). And the end will be by the flood (or by an unrelenting military attack, completely surrounding Jerusalem with "a fortification of pointed stakes" [see Jesus words at Luke 19:41-44] that normally would have taken months to build, but was constructed in just three days, and that cut off any entry or exit from the city). And until the end there will be war (no truces, peace treaties, or cessation, though Titus repeatedly tried to offer the Jews a peace deal, but was rejected every time); what is decided upon is desolations (or the complete decimation of Jerusalem and its citizens, nothing less, so that the Jewish historian Josephus said that 1.1 million people died in the conflict)".

Daniel 9:27 now says: "And he will keep the (Abrahamic, Gen 22:18) covenant in force for the many (that now included non-Jews who will become part of Abraham's "offspring", see Rom 9:8 and Gal 3:7) for one week (or during the final or 70th week or from 29 C.E. till 36 C.E.) and at the half of the week (or 33 C.E.), he will cause sacrifice and gift offering (under the Mosaic Law covenant) to cease (having been fulfilled by Jesus [Matt 5:17, 18] and replaced by a "new covenant", Heb 8:13)".

"And on the wing (Hebrew kanaph that means "an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a wing"; KJV reads "overspreading") of disgusting things (or the Roman armies that is an extension of Rome, like a wing of a bird that extends from its body, but is "disgusting" for its invasion of the "holy place") there was will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on (of complete destruction) will be poured out also on the one lying desolate (or the fleshly nation of Israel in 70 C.E.)".

After Jerusalem's destruction in 70 C.E., it remained virtually desolate until 130 C.E., when Emperor Hadrian ordered the building of a new city, to be named Aelia Capitolina.

This provoked a Jewish revolt by Bar Kokhba (132-135 C.E.), which did succeed for a short while, but was then crushed by the Romans. Jews were not allowed in the Roman built city for nearly two centuries.
 

Dave Watchman

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does anyone have solid scripture and or history, that defines what abomination that maketh desolate actually is?

(Let The Reader Understand) ?

I wish I could think of a quicker way to explain it.

But when I read this:

and most if not all prophecy is from God's view in Heaven at His chosen place in the earth (His footstool) Jerusalem.

I doubt that you'll like my explanation.

Me and a couple other guys figured this abomination business out in a forum post one time. It was one of the most exciting forum experiences that I've ever had. The one guy was Russian Orthodox or something. He hated the USA. That got in the way of his understanding.

The best way I can think to explain it is, is to let the reader figure it out for him or herself. Just take the prophetic time period, the 1290 days, and reverse engineer it for the event that caused the USA to become the "holy place", (a place prepared by God).

But first, notice how Luke removes the Abomination from the Olivet Discourse, and places it in Chapter 17. This is the biggie hint. This is important.

Matthew 24 mentions the "Abomination" STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE.

Then we get this:

"Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.​

Luke moves these verses to Chapter 17, right after the mention of the "days of Lot".

28“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

31
On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.​

See it? Luke replaces the "abomination of desolation", with the "days of Lot".

Daniel 12:11 is just another answer offered to the original question:

“How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?”​

Daily/AoD<-------1290Days------->EoW

(At the end of these wonders the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it's light)

Remember that a "law", or a legal decision can be "set up", or made to "stand".

'This decision will not stand': Republicans seek common cause against same-sex marriage

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) Canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 days------->Sun/Moon.
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 days------->EofW.

Calculate Duration Between Two Dates – Results

Partial Solar Eclipse on January 5–6, 2019

Total Lunar Eclipse on January 20–21, 2019 – Where and When to See

Peaceful Sabbath.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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That's strange, since Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 the "man of sin" wouldn't be revealed until the very end of this world, since he showed that it is Lord Jesus' return that destroys him per 2 Thessalonians 2:8 with the "brightness of His coming".

Yes, revealed Davy. That doesn't mean this man of Lawlessness started to exist in the last days of this world but that this religious organization which has existed for centuries since the time after the Apostles died is the "Man of Lawlessness" to those who have faith. Only those who have faith will know this. The world will go on and be marrying, having children, eating, building, working, etc until the tribulation hits then those people who honestly think they're true Christians but are in this organization, the "Man of Lawlessness" and they see it being Destroyed all over the world by God through his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ then those people who were in this religious organization,"Man of Lawlessness" will know only destruction awaits them
 

Bobby Jo

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A modern English translation of the Bible reads at Daniel 9:26, 27 ... "70 weeks" (of years or 490 years) ...

Yep, because a "modern English translation" is FLAWED. The ORIGINAL MASORETIC TEXT does not use the CONCISE text, -- Hebrew FEMININE GENDER text --, that the "English translation" presents. Instead it uses the INCONCISE MASCULINE GENDER text. So the 70 "weeks" 490.

It's analogous to being offered a ride in a "cool car", where you say, -- I'll be right back, I'm going to grab a HAT, COAT, and GLOVES.


Silly Doctrines.
Bobby Jo
 

quietthinker

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What you both sound like are extremists regarding understanding about God's law per The New Covenant. Those you speak that say all the law is done away with is one extreme, and those who say all the law is not done away with (like many Messianic Jews) are on the other extreme.

The reality per New Covenant doctrine is that Jesus nailed the handwriting of ordinances in the law to His cross. He didn't do away with God's laws against murder, rape, thefts, perjury, etc., like what Apostle Paul declared to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1.

Also, in Galatians 5 and in Romans, Paul made it plain that IF... we walk by The Spirit, then 'we'... are dead to the law. Those who say instead that the law is dead are Satan's host and the deceived that have listened to antichrists.
I hope you have the right understanding of 'handwriting of ordinances' because it's definitely not speaking of the Decalogue.

....and yes, I must admit, I am extreme....extremely jealous for God's Law ....just as Jesus was. He thought it so important it cost him his life.
 

Davy

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where is that in romans 9 where Paul speaks of 10 tribes being scattered?

I didn't speak of the Romans 9 Scripture talking about Israel's scattering, but how Paul quoted from Hosea to Roman Gentile believers on Christ a Scripture in Hosea that was 'originally' written to the ten northern tribes of Israel that were eventually scattered. If you think you know God's Word, then you ought to easily be able to find what Paul quoted there in Romans 9 from Hosea. If you pretend it's not there, then you reveal you don't really know what you're talking about, and are just here to gush deception. Are you a Jew by the way?

and just what doctrine are you yakking about. your posting doesn't make sense and is certainly off subject.

It would make sense to someone who has actually studied the Romans 9 Scripture where Apostle Paul quoted from Old Testament prophets like Hosea and Isaiah to Roman Gentiles. My bringing this up is in counter to your false claim in your post...

You said:
"you have to take into consideration in the past hundred-ish years the denominations especially those created here in north America base much of their views as if the bible was written to them. it maybe this was to keep the membership interested if they think its all about them, but that's pretty much how it stands and that line of thinking has permeated through out the general theology in north America. the bible was written to Jews by Jews except for epistles to gentile churches (that are grated in via faith of Abraham) in the NT that are written by Jews.

and most if not all prophecy is from God's view in Heaven at His chosen place in the earth (His footstool) Jerusalem."