Is it a sin for a Christian to vote for a Democrat?

[Heart2Soul]

Okay you need to know that there are 3 earth ages...just like there are 3 heavens.
And which light are you referring to? He created light twice.

Genesis 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

…
¹⁴ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
¹⁵ And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
¹⁶ And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
¹⁷ And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
¹⁸ And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Ziggy]

And ultimately I believe history repeats itself forever.
And I come to this conclusion by starting at the end of Revelation.
And God created a new heaven and a new earth.
And ending in Genesis.
God created the heaven and the earth.
Round and round she goes...Eternal.
And I think what we are expereincing right now is the roll over.
And everything is upside down, right is wrong, good is evil.
And the world is in a kind of chaos.
It will right itself again..
We may have to go through hell to get there though.

 

[Heart2Soul]

And ultimately I believe history repeats itself forever.
And I come to this conclusion by starting at the end of Revelation.
And God created a new heaven and a new earth.
And ending in Genesis.
God created the heaven and the earth.
Round and round she goes...Eternal.
And I think what we are expereincing right now is the roll over.
And everything is upside down, right is wrong, good is evil.
And the world is in a kind of chaos.
It will right itself again..
We may have to go through hell to get there though.

I had a vision years ago that we existed in our spiritual bodies before He ever created man or formed him from the earth.
I can almost see angels in their assignments doing His Will until the fall. But that is what He means when He knew us before we were conceived. We dwelled with him before!
I shared a link that you might be very interested in.
http://revelation7seals.com/threeearthages.htm

 

[Naomi25]

Is it a sin for a Christian to vote for a Democrat?
Placed in the Christian Debate forum because it is mostly about belief in God and Christian values.

This is such a fraught question, and I'm not sure there can be a completely 'correct' answer, because the answer lies in men and their platforms, which always let us down.
But, despite our uncertainty, I doubt there is anyone at the moment who is not thinking about it, American or not. America is such a pivotal player in the world, were she goes, things tend to topple, so even those not voting, even those not 'directly' impacted by the upcoming election will have thought about the Republican/Democrat issue and where they perhaps stand on it.
Personally, if I were voting, I could not bring myself to vote Democrat. Not that I love Donald Trump...I think the fella is a little...well...everything. But, that's not really the point. I think, as Christians, if we look at the people up for the vote...either Trump OR Biden, both are 'disqualified' if we view them strictly through a 'Christian leadership' criteria. But...are they running for Christian leadership? Not really. But...let's say that we don't feel we can entirely support either one via character strength alone...what else do we look at when selecting a leader, especially in politics? Policies. Here in Australia it is especially important to look past the leader and at the policies because we have this stupid rule where the Party can turf the leader for a new one anytime they get twitchy over the polls. So, in essence, you need to vote policies in, not people.
And for me, the policies of the Republicans, while not perfect, are still preferable to the Democrats. I know that there are plenty of Christians who claim that they cannot feel comfortable voting for the Republicans based "solely on the abortion issue, while ignoring immigration and racism and the like", which they see as important humanism issues as well.
And I agree, these are also issues we, as Christians, ought to care about.
But I think we need to step back and try and have the heart of God as he reveals himself having in scripture. Are there some issues he would simply decry as abominations, demanding those of us who follow him to do the same, while other issues are still important but can be followed with devoted attempts to sway those in power to change their minds.
It seems to me that the systematic murder, dismembering and sale of body parts of millions of unborn children is something God abhors. And while he would also stand against the poor treatment of immigrants and issues such as racism, those issues are for people with voices of their own, which we can then join in with as we attempt to convince our leaders to listen and change policies.
I think the Republicans have their flaws. I think Trump has his flaws. Many flaws. But the Democratic Party's systemic and inhuman disregard for the helpless, their overt Marxist tenancies and their clear willingness to 'cancel and destroy' anyone who disagrees with their ideologies, makes me concerned that if they win this election, there won't be another American election. Maybe not even an America. Anthropologically, we've seen that a culture that does not cherish its children will not last. We have daily reminders from places like Venezuela that Marxism can crash a booming country so hard and so fast people don't see it coming.
It's true...I think a Trump win will bring more riots, which is a concern in itself. But the alternative is worse, I think.
Well...that's my opinion. And I do recognize it as just that...an opinion.

 

[Ziggy]

Ok.. these verses:
³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Now in him was life and the life was the light of men.
Then we have the light called Day and the darkness called Night.

1Th 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

And the evening and the morning was the first day.
So on the first day, both children of light and children of darkness began.
skip to Cain (evening) and Abel (morning) is when they was first conceived: like a thought.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Ok.. these verses:
³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Now in him was life and the life was the light of men.
Then we have the light called Day and the darkness called Night.

1Th 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

And the evening and the morning was the first day.
So on the first day, both children of light and children of darkness began.
skip to Cain (evening) and Abel (morning) is when they was first conceived: like a thought.

Yes i can agree...I believe in Genesis the first light is spiritual and the second creation of lights is physical.
So we are spiritual and became flesh.
That's why I believe at conception your spirit is put there by God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes i can agree...I believe in Genesis the first light is spiritual and the second creation of lights is physical.
So we are spiritual and became flesh.
That's why I believe at conception your spirit is put there by God.

Ok.. these verses:
³ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
⁴ And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
⁵ And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Now in him was life and the life was the light of men.
Then we have the light called Day and the darkness called Night.

1Th 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

And the evening and the morning was the first day.
So on the first day, both children of light and children of darkness began.
skip to Cain (evening) and Abel (morning) is when they was first conceived: like a thought.

This needs to be its own thread....would you care to start it?

 

[Josho]

Here is a statement pro-life evangelical Democrat voters made, it seems that they are voting other issues.

AS PRO-LIFE EVANGELICALS, WE DISAGREE WITH VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM ON THE ISSUE OF ABORTION. BUT WE BELIEVE A BIBLICALLY SHAPED COMMITMENT TO THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE COMPELS US TO A CONSISTENT ETHIC OF LIFE THAT AFFIRMS THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE FROM BEGINNING TO END.
Many things that good political decisions could change destroy persons created in the image of God and violate the sanctity of human life. Poverty kills millions every year. So does lack of healthcare and smoking. Racism kills. Unless we quickly make major changes, devastating climate change will kill tens of millions. Poverty, lack of accessible health care services, smoking, racism and climate change are all pro-life issues. As the National Association of Evangelicals’ official public policy document (FOR THE HEALTH OF THE NATION) insists, “Faithful evangelical civic engagement and witness must champion a biblically balanced agenda.“ Therefore we oppose “one issue” political thinking because it lacks biblical balance.


Knowing that the most common reason women give for abortion is the financial difficulty of another child, we appreciate a number of Democratic proposals that would significantly alleviate that financial burden: accessible health services for all citizens, affordable childcare, a minimum wage that lifts workers out of poverty.


For these reasons, we believe that on balance, Joe Biden’s policies are more consistent with the biblically shaped ethic of life than those of Donald Trump. Therefore, even as we continue to urge different policies on abortion, we urge evangelicals to elect Joe Biden as president."

Source - https://www.prolifeevangelicalsforbiden.com

 

[Josho]

Here is a statement pro-life evangelical Democrat voters made, it seems that they are voting other issues.

AS PRO-LIFE EVANGELICALS, WE DISAGREE WITH VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM ON THE ISSUE OF ABORTION. BUT WE BELIEVE A BIBLICALLY SHAPED COMMITMENT TO THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE COMPELS US TO A CONSISTENT ETHIC OF LIFE THAT AFFIRMS THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE FROM BEGINNING TO END.
Many things that good political decisions could change destroy persons created in the image of God and violate the sanctity of human life. Poverty kills millions every year. So does lack of healthcare and smoking. Racism kills. Unless we quickly make major changes, devastating climate change will kill tens of millions. Poverty, lack of accessible health care services, smoking, racism and climate change are all pro-life issues. As the National Association of Evangelicals’ official public policy document (FOR THE HEALTH OF THE NATION) insists, “Faithful evangelical civic engagement and witness must champion a biblically balanced agenda.“ Therefore we oppose “one issue” political thinking because it lacks biblical balance.


Knowing that the most common reason women give for abortion is the financial difficulty of another child, we appreciate a number of Democratic proposals that would significantly alleviate that financial burden: accessible health services for all citizens, affordable childcare, a minimum wage that lifts workers out of poverty.


For these reasons, we believe that on balance, Joe Biden’s policies are more consistent with the biblically shaped ethic of life than those of Donald Trump. Therefore, even as we continue to urge different policies on abortion, we urge evangelicals to elect Joe Biden as president."

Source - https://www.prolifeevangelicalsforbiden.com

I stand on my position though that I would not vote for either candidate if I was an American citizen, but disagree with other Christians on condemning their brothers and sisters to hell and alienating them just because of the political party they vote for.

I have cousins voting for both major candidates, some of them Christian.

It is not a sin to vote for a certain political party itself.

 

[Ziggy]

Yes i can agree...I believe in Genesis the first light is spiritual and the second creation of lights is physical.
So we are spiritual and became flesh.
That's why I believe at conception your spirit is put there by God.

And I believe the Bible says that God knew the ending from the beginning.
Everything we have ever experienced no matter how wonderful or terrible is in the plan.
Trust the Plan.
We can't see the whole picture and yet we can if we look hard enough because we been here before.

I look at things from different angles.
I picture myself watching a parade going by. The parade is the world and all the things in it.
Good people, bad people.
And I think, Is God judging them or is he judging me to see how I react to the characters in the parade.
Those fruits in me need to be available no matter what type of person is walking by.
Am I being tolerant? Am I being understanding? Am I learning how not to behave by watching bad behavior?
All the world is a stage and I'm the observer.
And I believe I will be judged according to how I react or think or feel about what's on that stage.
It's not about me judging someone or something, but rather how I will be judged of my own merits/fruits.

 

[Ziggy]

Here is a statement pro-life evangelical Democrat voters made, it seems that they are voting other issues.

AS PRO-LIFE EVANGELICALS, WE DISAGREE WITH VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM ON THE ISSUE OF ABORTION. BUT WE BELIEVE A BIBLICALLY SHAPED COMMITMENT TO THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE COMPELS US TO A CONSISTENT ETHIC OF LIFE THAT AFFIRMS THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE FROM BEGINNING TO END.
Many things that good political decisions could change destroy persons created in the image of God and violate the sanctity of human life. Poverty kills millions every year. So does lack of healthcare and smoking. Racism kills. Unless we quickly make major changes, devastating climate change will kill tens of millions. Poverty, lack of accessible health care services, smoking, racism and climate change are all pro-life issues. As the National Association of Evangelicals’ official public policy document (FOR THE HEALTH OF THE NATION) insists, “Faithful evangelical civic engagement and witness must champion a biblically balanced agenda.“ Therefore we oppose “one issue” political thinking because it lacks biblical balance.


Knowing that the most common reason women give for abortion is the financial difficulty of another child, we appreciate a number of Democratic proposals that would significantly alleviate that financial burden: accessible health services for all citizens, affordable childcare, a minimum wage that lifts workers out of poverty.


For these reasons, we believe that on balance, Joe Biden’s policies are more consistent with the biblically shaped ethic of life than those of Donald Trump. Therefore, even as we continue to urge different policies on abortion, we urge evangelicals to elect Joe Biden as president."

Source - https://www.prolifeevangelicalsforbiden.com

Oh that's so disappointing.
Money over morals.
Joe Biden’s policies are more consistent with the biblically shaped ethic of life

I believe Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more but I could be mistaken.
We won't consider abstinence or even birth control, nope,
We're going to jump right over to financial burden as the #1 reason to terminate.
This is a pay to play world. And if money is involved you already lost the game.
Sad, so sad..

 

[Heyzeus]

Luke 1:41-44 (NKJV)
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Abortion is murder! Receive mercy from God. Be merciful to the unborn who cannot yet speak for themselves. Don't kill them. Let them live.

LOL .. never heard of a colloquialism regardless .. the Fetus must have been rather late in the process to be able to "leap" - in which case I disagree with abortion.

What you have failed to do is support your claim that a zygote is "a human" .. lumping all that stops the process into the same bin is your fallacy.

So then .. When does the soul arrive into the fleshy abode .. and why at this time. Where did the soul come from .. and where will it go once it leaves the fleshy abode.

 

[Seven of Nine]

I stand on my position though that I would not vote for either candidate if I was an American citizen, but disagree with other Christians on condemning their brothers and sisters to hell and alienating them just because of the political party they vote for.

I have cousins voting for both major candidates, some of them Christian.

It is not a sin to vote for a certain political party itself.

Great posts, Josho. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Heart2Soul]

LOL .. never heard of a colloquialism regardless .. the Fetus must have been rather late in the process to be able to "leap" - in which case I disagree with abortion.

What you have failed to do is support your claim that a zygote is "a human" .. lumping all that stops the process into the same bin is your fallacy.

So then .. When does the soul arrive into the fleshy abode .. and why at this time. Where did the soul come from .. and where will it go once it leaves the fleshy abode.

I am going to help out....as you can read the angel told Zacharias that he would be filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mothers womb. Here are your scriptures.
First about John the Baptist...
Luke 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
⁶ And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
⁷ And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

¹¹ And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
¹² And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
¹³ But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
¹⁴ And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
¹⁵ For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Leaped in the womb as Mary approached...
Do you realize what this indicates?
The fetus hasn't visually seen anything outside the amniotic sac....probably had not heard Mary's voice....but yet it recognized His Lord and Savior....
That is spiritual discernment and you need a spirit to spiritually discern.
The spirit is life...and I am now convinced it enters in at conception.
So a zygote contains our spirit in very small tiny cells...which are alive because of the spirit in it....human is a noun describing which form of life we are....homo sapiens....a species.
So in coming back to the zygote....it is the seed of adam...and every dna code as to what the hair color, eye color, skin, skeletal shape and even how tall he will be has already been programmed and submitted by the father.....so the makeup of the human anatomy is simply billions of cells that continued to duplicate and replicate until it became what we are presently.
Life is in the spirit and the spirit dwells within the dna structure of our anatomy.

 

[Heyzeus]

I am going to help out....as you can read the angel told Zacharias that he would be filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mothers womb. Here are your scriptures.
First about John the Baptist...
Luke 1 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
⁶ And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
⁷ And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

¹¹ And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
¹² And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
¹³ But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
¹⁴ And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
¹⁵ For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Leaped in the womb as Mary approached...
Do you realize what this indicates?
The fetus hasn't visually seen anything outside the amniotic sac....probably had not heard Mary's voice....but yet it recognized His Lord and Savior....
That is spiritual discernment and you need a spirit to spiritually discern.
The spirit is life...and I am now convinced it enters in at conception.
So a zygote contains our spirit in very small tiny cells...which are alive because of the spirit in it....human is a noun describing which form of life we are....homo sapiens....a species.
So in coming back to the zygote....it is the seed of adam...and every dna code as to what the hair color, eye color, skin, skeletal shape and even how tall he will be has already been programmed and submitted by the father.....so the makeup of the human anatomy is simply billions of cells that continued to duplicate and replicate until it became what we are presently.
Life is in the spirit and the spirit dwells within the dna structure of our anatomy.

You are making things up.. what part of "colloquialism" did you miss in the last post. and once the fetus is big enough to leap about .. I agree with you that abortion would be wrong at this point in any case. There is nothing in your quote that helps is with abortion in the early stages .. and allusory stuff "I knew you in the womb" doesn't help either. Did Jesus not know all the Fetus's he commanded to be murdered in the OT ?

Now claiming the zygote has a soul .. is a completely different thing. You are correct that the single cell at conception contains the blueprint for a human in its DNA .. but .. so does every other human cell.

So if a spirit is life .. then we should not be killing anything ... not plants or animals. Unfortunately - we were created in such a way such that we need to kill life in order to survive.

So when does the soul enter the human vessel .. where does this soul come from - and where will it go when it leaves the vessel ?

 

[Grailhunter]

Ahhh, I see you are a student of common sense....Congratulations....School of hard knocks? Or are you someone that just pays attention?

This is such a fraught question, and I'm not sure there can be a completely 'correct' answer, because the answer lies in men and their platforms, which always let us down.

There is a correct answer and it is not a mystery. I am sure that the politics in Australia has it erro-synchronicities. (yes it is a Grailhunter word.) The answer lies in men or the lies of of men ends up being the answer we get. lol Politics is chaos and dog eat dog. If a Christian is only going to vote for a person that is near perfect....that Christian is not going to vote and it is important for Christians to vote. For a good Christian to understand politics they have to understand the concept of the "norm." It does not matter if they are Republicans or Democrats the baseline is that they are liars, schemers, and all have skeletons in their closet. Christians have to look past that.

In the old days Christians could look at person and look at their leadership qualities. Do they actually do what they promised. And by do, I mean, not only did they try, but were they successful at it. Does the person support Christian morals and values. The guy might be a drunken poker player but his initiatives, the things he strives for, do they support Christian values and morals. That is the done column and the do column. Is he or she against abortion? Is he or she actually successful at reducing drug trafficking. Is he or she an advocate of law and order. Does he or she stand up for Christian rights? Does he or she stand up for the minorities? Does he or she know how to negotiate with countries on policy or trade. Does he or she have to go to war to address issues or can he or she negotiate the terms and get it done and keep the peace Does he or she promote good education? Does he or she know how to promote a good economy? Does he or she have a good plan for healthcare? Does he or she have to raise taxes to get their programs to work or do they have the ingenuity to get it done without raising taxes. etc etc etc

In the old days you were evaluating the person. Those days are long gone. The politics in America are such that for sometime now the line has been drawn. It is no longer conservative and liberal. It is moral and unmoral, patriotic and unpatriotic. That is the dividing line. If the issue is abortion...all the Republicans vote against it and all of the Democrats vote for it. If the topic is gay marriage all the Republicans vote against it and all the Democrats vote for it. If the issue is legalizing drugs....all of the Republicans vote against it and all of the Democrats vote for it. If the topic is raising taxes, the Republicans vote against it and the Democrats vote for it. etc etc If the congress or senate is ruled by the opposing party, they will generally work against the President. Certainly there are exceptions to the rules, but in either case if the politicians do not vote along party lines they are chastised by their own party.

So to actually be effective the voter has to vote with the party that best represent their views....for Christians it is the party that best accomplishes their morals. Not that politicians are perfectly moral, but what they accomplish is moral. Not that, that is perfect either. You have to pick a side, because if you don't and the senate and congress and governors are split then it is like tying the tails of two cats together and throwing them over a clothesline....they will do nothing but tear each other up and that will take up their time and minds so that they are ineffective at governing. Effectively what we have is the American party and the Communist party....a party that acknowledges the importance of God and morals and a party that does not acknowledge the importance of God and moral. If a Democrat were to stand up at one of their rallies and talk about God they would lose most of their support. So that is what a Christians has to consider here in America.

Civil rights is another matter and i am sure your country has things going on with the aborigines. Here the Democrats have been able to convince the minorities that they were their party, but they have played them for fools. They really have not done anything for them for 50 years. They pay attention to the criminal element and put them on welfare but assume that if you gave the them a chance they could not succeed. That is what makes President Trump different than his fellow Republicans and the Democrats. He believes in access to a good education and an economy that promotes jobs....the American dream. A lot of minorities own homes and during his administration, more minorities have jobs and homes.

As far as the looting, burning and murderous mobs, that the Democrats call peaceful protests, you can read the posts on that.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Come on .. "When does a fertilize egg stop being a human" give me a break.

Man walks into a debate on whether or not the zygote is "a human" .. starts out with "when does it stop being a human"

This is called "Assumed Premise Fallacy" The question being addressed .. is whether nor not its a human .. at all .. or when does it start being a human .

So, in your view, a zygote can become a tree? Of course it's human. What this is called is "rationalization" the attempt to justify evil and antihuman behavior with arguments that only appear to be rational. Questioning whether a fertilized egg is human or not is the kind of fatal skepticism that remains detrimental to knowledge. It's like Descartes stupidly questioning is own existence.

Your challenge that I prove that a human zygote is human is on the same level as Descartes' great lack of common sense. You want me to prove that a zygote is human because you somehow think it might be something else. The zygote represents the initial steps in dog development or horse development or bunny rabbit development? How absurd is that?

Or might there be another reason? Perhaps we define "human" according to our estimate of a person's intelligence. Perhaps we define "human" according to a "wellness" scale. Perhaps we define "human" according to our estimate of a person's survivability, susceptibility to disease, family history of downs syndrome, etc. Or perhaps we narrow our definition to members of the Aryan master race?

Nothing good has come from the question, "Is it human?" To ask the question is to doubt our existence, which can be as benignly stupid as Descartes or as dangerously evil as Hitler or Margaret Sanger.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well, one newspaper saying it doesn't make it true.

You calling things "facts" doesn't make them facts. Why don't they produce the evidence then? The FBI would be interested. The Republicans in Congress would be. I would be.


And I don't believe you. Your argument is, "I read this in one newspaper, so it must be true." You want it to be true, so you believe it is.

The evidence has been presented. And more evidence is being revealed every day this week. I gave you a link to Joe Biden's talk at the CFR meeting. Did you listen to him talk about his quid-pro-quo deal with Ukraine? Biden openly admitted that he was responsible for forcing the government of Ukraine to fire a prosecutor looking into corruption associated with Burisma Energy company.

Find out why an energy company would hire a man who had no energy experience and pay him over $50,000 a month salary. Why was this company being investigated? What did Berisma get in return for hiring the son of the Vice President of the United States? Could it be that Berisma paid for influence?

Watch the following video clip where Hunter Biden denies everything. But, pay close attention to two things: 1) he admits that he wouldn't have gotten the job had he not been the son of Joe Biden, and 2) what question did he refuse to answer?

What question does his father refuse to answer?

 

[JohnDB]

The evidence has been presented. And more evidence is being revealed every day this week. I gave you a link to Joe Biden's talk at the CFR meeting. Did you listen to him talk about his quid-pro-quo deal with Ukraine? Biden openly admitted that he was responsible for forcing the government of Ukraine to fire a prosecutor looking into corruption associated with Burisma Energy company.

Find out why an energy company would hire a man who had no energy experience and pay him over $50,000 a month salary. Why was this company being investigated? What did Berisma get in return for hiring the son of the Vice President of the United States? Could it be that Berisma paid for influence?

Watch the following video clip where Hunter Biden denies everything. But, pay close attention to two things: 1) he admits that he wouldn't have gotten the job had he not been the son of Joe Biden, and 2) what question did he refuse to answer?

What question does his father refuse to answer?

Well the latest is that Hunter Biden's laptop is involved in a money laundering scheme.

IOW they laundered the money before giving it to the Bidens and others somehow so that it would seem legitimate.
And that's even more of a criminal activity.

So this is going to get hinky for some time to come.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Re-Post from #268:

QUOTE= @Devin Wintch

... I ask God for forgiveness for my sins, Trump admitted he hadn't. ...​

QUOTE= @Bobby Jo

CITATION? -- Not for you, for Trump ...
​

Are you any closer to providing the requested CITATION, -- or was your accusation unfounded?!?

Bobby Jo

I have seen a couple of interviews where Donald Trump admitted that he had not asked God for forgiveness. However, I finally realized that he was answering a different question than what we would expect.

What he means to say, I think, is this. Donald Trump is not the sort of person who constantly looks backward, taking stock of what he has done. He is a man who constantly looks forward and is not interested in self-assessment or self-appraisal. In his mind, he always takes the correct and right action in any given situation. If a man sets out to always do the right thing, then he has no reason to ask for God's forgiveness. He does what he thinks is right and he moves on. He never questions his actions or worries about things that might have been. He isn't opposed to the idea of asking God's forgiveness. But he is resolved to wait until the final judgment.

That's my take on his answer. I could be wrong.