If Baptism could save then there is no need for the shed Blood of Jesus.

[CadyandZoe]

So your not really in the new covenant just symbolically, you don’t really get washed in the blood just symbolically, not really saved just symbolically

Consider the wedding ring, which married couples wear as a signal of their union. Suppose a woman, while washing the dishes, looses her wedding ring down the sink. Does this mean that she is no longer married? Suppose a man, wishing to cheat on his wife, removes his wedding ring in the process of sleeping with another woman. Did the man commit adultery?

Would you not agree that the couple remains married whether they are wearing their rings or not? I would say they remain married, even if they lose or remove their rings. The ring is only a symbol of their commitment, and the veracity of the ring depends NOT on the wearing of the ring but on the faithfulness of each spouse. The ring is nothing more than a symbol of an inner resolve to remain faithful and true. The ring is not a guarantee of resolve or faithfulness. The basis for the sanctity of marriage is the character and true feelings of each individual.

If a young man is baptized, only time will tell if his resolve to live as disciple of Christ was met with true character. Don't judge the sanctity of a young man's baptism while he is still young. Wait until he becomes an old man. Only then will we know whether his baptism was sanctified.

 

[theefaith]

Will you trust God's eternal inspired living Word OR little men" word and ideas???

What does Jesus say?

It was little men who wrote the Bible, and cannonized (to Bible who have authority to say what is and what is not the Bible) and only they have authority to interpret the Bible, you have zero authority to read the Bible and make doctrine for yourself!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

 

[theefaith]

Consider the wedding ring, which married couples wear as a signal of their union. Suppose a woman, while washing the dishes, looses her wedding ring down the sink. Does this mean that she is no longer married? Suppose a man, wishing to cheat on his wife, removes his wedding ring in the process of sleeping with another woman. Did the man commit adultery?

Would you not agree that the couple remains married whether they are wearing their rings or not? I would say they remain married, even if they lose or remove their rings. The ring is only a symbol of their commitment, and the veracity of the ring depends NOT on the wearing of the ring but on the faithfulness of each spouse. The ring is nothing more than a symbol of an inner resolve to remain faithful and true. The ring is not a guarantee of resolve or faithfulness. The basis for the sanctity of marriage is the character and true feelings of each individual.

If a young man is baptized, only time will tell if his resolve to live as disciple of Christ was met with true character. Don't judge the sanctity of a young man's baptism while he is still young. Wait until he becomes an old man. Only then will we know whether his baptism was sanctified.

jn 3:5 is not symbolic

 

[GISMYS_7]

2 Peter 1:21

“For the prophecy(Word of God) came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”

 

[CadyandZoe]

jn 3:5 is not symbolic

Jesus is talking about being born, not being baptized. "That which is born of flesh is flesh . . ."

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus is talking about being born, not being baptized. "That which is born of flesh is flesh . . ."

That is disputable.

And if "water" in John 3:5 refers to water baptism, you would be gambling on eternity to bank on the idea that it is referring to the ambiotic fluids of physical birth...and you would also lose the gamble.

 

[Truther]

You remain deceived. It is by grace through faith, not works that God saves folks. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

All we have to do is the work of confessing Jesus?

 

[CadyandZoe]

That is disputable.

And if "water" in John 3:5 refers to water baptism, you would be gambling on eternity to bank on the idea that it is referring to the ambiotic fluids of physical birth...and you would also lose the gamble.

The subject of baptism doesn't appear in the passage.

Nicodemus gains a private audience alone with Jesus in secret. Nicodemus reflects on the fact that Jesus is performing miracles and concludes that God must be "with him", that is, God sent Jesus to speak on his behalf. Apparently, not all of the Pharisees agree with this assessment, which is why Nicodemus comes alone. Some among the Pharisees are able to understand the true nature of the miracles, while others are not. According to Jesus, in order for a person to understand the true purpose of the miracles, one must be born from above, or born of spirit. In our idiom we would say that Nicodemus' "red pill" moment was itself a miracle from God. Jesus teaches Nicodemus that being able to understand the true purpose

That which is born of flesh is flesh.

The statement above is best understood in light of John's earlier statement located in chapter 1.

John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Born of:
a. blood - one's family or ethnic descent.
b. the will of the flesh - affinity based on social categories, e.g. men vs. women, slave vs. free, elite vs. commoner, etc.
c. the will of man - attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters.
d. of God. - divine intervention within the heart of an individual.

Nicodemus was "born of flesh" in that he was not only born as a descendant of Jacob, he was a member of an elite group of men known as the Pharisees. The water is not the amniotic fluid, but neither is it Christian Baptism or even the baptism of John. Given the context, in my view, Jesus refers to proselyte baptism, performed on new converts to the Jewish religion. Matthew 23:15

 

[justbyfaith]

The water is not the amniotic fluid, but neither is it Christian Baptism or even the baptism of John. Given the context, in my view, Jesus refers to proselyte baptism, performed on new converts to the Jewish religion.

I don't think so. If that were the case, one would have to convert to Judaism before they can be born again.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I don't think so. If that were the case, one would have to convert to Judaism before they can be born again.

Negative. Don't you understand? Jesus isn't saying baptism + spirit, he is saying spirit instead of baptism.

 

[justbyfaith]

Negative. Don't you understand? Jesus isn't saying baptism + spirit, he is saying spirit instead of baptism.

That is reformulating the verse. Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit.

 

[user]

Negative. Don't you understand? Jesus isn't saying baptism + spirit, he is saying spirit instead of baptism.

Looks like you changed this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


into this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water Spirit and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Looks like you changed this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


into this...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water Spirit and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Did I do that? I don't think so. Nicodemus was already "born of water." Why do you say Jesus is recommending that he become "born of water" if he had already done so?

 

[CadyandZoe]

That is reformulating the verse. Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit.

Did he? I don't think he did. Did Jesus actually say, "you MUST be born of water" expressing a necessity? Let's look again.

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Here the Lord expresses conditions under which an individual enters the kingdom of God. Why does he add "born of water" as one of the conditions? In order to understand what Jesus has in mind we include the previous verse.

4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

From verse 4 we understand that the Lord is responding to the apparent absurdity of being born again implied in the question Nicodemus asked. Nicodemus has already come from his mother's womb. That is, Nicodemus has already been born of water.

 

[user]

Did I do that? I don't think so. Nicodemus was already "born of water." Why do you say Jesus is recommending that he become "born of water" if he had already done so?

Jesus' New Testament plan of salvation is found in the book of Acts verse 38...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

As per the timing of the Nicodemus conversation, Jesus was not yet dead but was pointing and alluding to such time...

Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Nicodemus was not yet baptized in Jesus Name for the remission of sin, but he and all others were still in the Old Testament dispensation salvation until the Lord's death, burial, resurrection.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus' New Testament plan of salvation is found in the book of Acts verse 38...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

As per the timing of the Nicodemus conversation, Jesus was not yet dead but was pointing and alluding to such time...

Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Nicodemus was not yet baptized in Jesus Name for the remission of sin, but he and all others were still in the Old Testament dispensation salvation until the Lord's death, burial, resurrection.

Have you ever heard of the concept of metonomy? If I said, "The White House" reported . . . such-and-such" I'm not suggesting that a piece of architecture can talk. For the sake of efficiency, I substitute the phrase "The White House" for "the political administration" located there.

In Acts 2:38, Peter is using metonomy when he exhorts his listeners to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." What he actually means is, "repent and become a disciple of Jesus Christ." baptize = become a disciple.

Where might we find an example of this elsewhere in the New Testament? Acts 19:1-7 Paul encounters a group of "disciples" and questions them as to who taught them. During the conversation he asks them, "Into what were you baptized?" And they answer "Into John's baptism." Here is another example where the term "baptism," which indicates being immersed in water, is employed to indicate the teaching of the baptizer. Those individuals whom John baptized, were immersed in John's teaching. The fact that they were also immersed in water is incidental. The baptism of Jesus is Jesus' teaching just as the baptism of John is John's teaching.

Paul says, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." While it is true that John baptized with water, Paul is more interested what John taught, referring to John's teaching as a "baptism of repentance." The Baptism of Repentance is not a water baptism; it's an immersion in the teaching concerning repentance.

The baptism of Jesus is not an immersion in water: the baptism of Jesus is an immersion in the teachings of Jesus.

 

[user]

Have you ever heard of the concept of metonomy? If I said, "The White House" reported . . . such-and-such" I'm not suggesting that a piece of architecture can talk. For the sake of efficiency, I substitute the phrase "The White House" for "the political administration" located there.

In Acts 2:38, Peter is using metonomy when he exhorts his listeners to "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ." What he actually means is, "repent and become a disciple of Jesus Christ." baptize = become a disciple.

Where might we find an example of this elsewhere in the New Testament? Acts 19:1-7 Paul encounters a group of "disciples" and questions them as to who taught them. During the conversation he asks them, "Into what were you baptized?" And they answer "Into John's baptism." Here is another example where the term "baptism," which indicates being immersed in water, is employed to indicate the teaching of the baptizer. Those individuals whom John baptized, were immersed in John's teaching. The fact that they were also immersed in water is incidental. The baptism of Jesus is Jesus' teaching just as the baptism of John is John's teaching.

Paul says, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." While it is true that John baptized with water, Paul is more interested what John taught, referring to John's teaching as a "baptism of repentance." The Baptism of Repentance is not a water baptism; it's an immersion in the teaching concerning repentance.

The baptism of Jesus is not an immersion in water: the baptism of Jesus is an immersion in the teachings of Jesus.

THE GREAT COMMISSION GIVEN:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"


THE GREAT COMMISSION IN ACTION:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.



Paul himself was baptized...

Acts 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[CadyandZoe]

THE GREAT COMMISSION GIVEN:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"


THE GREAT COMMISSION IN ACTION:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.



Paul himself was baptized...

Acts 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

What does it actually mean to be baptized in the name of someone?

 

[user]

What does it actually mean to be baptized in the name of someone?

Sins are remitted = Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

 

[GISMYS_7]

How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!!!

Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13 GOD SAYS=

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved....................OOPS!!! Do you think God forgot to say that you must be baptized to be saved????