And that does not address the quesition of this thread.
Jesus emptied Himself of His omnipotence, and His omniscience, and so forth. This does not change His divinity.
Much love!
Kenosis False Teaching
- Thread starter ChristisGod
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Jesus emptied Himself of His omnipotence, and His omniscience, and so forth. This does not change His divinity.
Much love!
It's a lengthy formula for salvation that does not appear in the Bible. I find no place in the Bible that tells me I have to understand and agree to each of these items to be born again.
I don't disagree with it's statements so far as I understand them, but just the same, "all who call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved."
Much love!
You're the one in really big trouble, you'll have one heck of a time trying to explain both your positions about Jesus, and the KJV at the end time.
If the Father Emptied Himself of all the Omni's is He still completely and fully God ? yes or no
I am new to all this so beyond the first post on this thread it has gotten heated, so let me ask this if we follow this logic of Jesus just a Man filled with the Holy Spirit Doing the Father's will, So we to if filled with the Holy spirit and following after the Father's will could do everything Jesus Did while He was on earth, We could give sight to the Blind, Make the Cripple Walk, Make the deaf hear again, Feed 5000 people with a few fish and loves of bread, We could calm a raging storm, Walk on water and even raise the dead and just may be raise ourselves from the grave as well.... when has anyone ever done All these things? When has any one professing any type of Christian walk ever gone to a grave or morgue and raised the dead? Why are you not in hospitals healing the sick? or are you Not Filled with The Spirit doing any of the Father's Work. Speak to the corona virus and kill it!
Oh wait that did happen Kenneth Copeland tried that and failed...And did you hear about Olive the child Bethel tried to raise from the dead?
Well she is still dead...and this is from professing Christians. Jesus and miracles were done do to the fact He was GOD and we will never be God ourselves so stop trying.
Oh wait that did happen Kenneth Copeland tried that and failed...And did you hear about Olive the child Bethel tried to raise from the dead?
Well she is still dead...and this is from professing Christians. Jesus and miracles were done do to the fact He was GOD and we will never be God ourselves so stop trying.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
And that brings us to the olive tree and who gets grafted into who. And I believe most of the churches have it backwards.
The promises were made to Israel. Israel are those who have Abraham by faith as their Father. it's not a Jew/Gentile Faith/
It is all the same faith Abraham had.
We graft into that family tree, not the other way around..
So.. I have problems with a whole lotta churches today, not any in particular.
did I write jugs?
HUGS
The promises were made to Israel. Israel are those who have Abraham by faith as their Father. it's not a Jew/Gentile Faith/
It is all the same faith Abraham had.
We graft into that family tree, not the other way around..
So.. I have problems with a whole lotta churches today, not any in particular.
did I write jugs?
HUGS
Thanks for the font. It does help although I have found the worst thing that people do in their posts is to run them with no effort to make paragraphs. Knowing the proper way to make paragraphs according to the English teacher is not to me the most important thing for I have trouble with that myself. The answer for it is to break those lengthy run-together writings into small segments with spaces in between to be read and even re-read one at the time. Sometimes on unfamiliar or complex issues I may read them several times and still miss the point and never answer or respond. What my mind once did well it doesn't do so well any more and the eyes don't help...
You keep on trying and so do I on the issue, the diversified oneness thing. I know I have discussed it with you before, but being honest it still does not really come clear to me. I cannot be a Trinitarian because while people can cite verses, they usually have already filled in the gaps or eliminated any real problems in their own minds according what they have decided are the correct answers. I have questions that none of them have been able to answer with anything better than for me to effectively accept it according to their faith. I cannot do that any more than I can espouse diversified oneness according to your understanding or your faith.
The verse I gave you [John 17:11] for me supports either one God alone [one person?] or a Multiplicity which could include you or me as part of the Godhead. To limit it to three would be an arbitrary thing on the part of someone who was trimming the jigsaw puzzle to make it fit. Of course for any one who has ever worked a jigsaw puzzle would realize that there would be a problem in ever finishing the puzzle correctly. It is for me one of the most serious problems against the Trinity. No one has ever given me a good answer to it which favors the Trinity. Many people have ignored it when I inserted it as a question. There are others...
Technically I grew up as a Trinitarian in the Catholic Church, but I did not even own a Bible much less read one in those days. It was prior to Vatican II and they did not read the whole Bible at their masses then. On the Trinity I simply accepted what the priests and nuns told me. There was a Trinity because they said so and to my knowledge they never purposely lied to me.
My transition or really my beginning of considering the nature of God, that is the Godhead, came in the UPC about 14 years after I stopped my regular attendance at mass. Early on... as I studied with the Oneness Jesus Only people and began reading my Bible for myself, I saw what they meant. When I left oneness after 11 years I went to a group that embraced neither Trinitarian nor Oneness Jesus Only doctrines. They helped me understand the errors of the others, but without making clear what was correct. Eventually God showed me problems with them too, but by that time it was too late for any man I knew to easily shake me on some things. There was no man around, [that I knew], who was honestly pursuing and not already rather heavily indoctrinated on certain points. After backsliding from them for 10 years I came back to God with a truly new leaf, a leaf that was striving to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit in all Bible reading and studying. That began in 2002. A lot has happened since then. I used to have lengthy in depth discussions with Trinitarians in particular, but I haven't changed much if any in that regard.
Some time ago you came up with this apparently new thing for me, this diversified oneness, but by that time my own slipping mind was unable to grasp exactly what you were saying. I did recognize that my own vision of it [the Godhead] was blurry as far as most people were concerned. I know what I see or understand, but it is still quite shadowy to most others. God knows and shows me things at times which help me, but not necessarily easy for me to explain to others with regard to this subject.
Someone here mentioned Moses as the type or shadow, but it is Joseph, the son of Jacob/Israel that for me gives me my picture/vision of Him. As Joseph was to Pharaoh, so is Jesus to God... but what does that mean?
"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40
And then follow that with this:
"For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." I Cor 15:27-28
And then this:
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Heb 1:8
No Multiplicity, so no Trinity. Only One God for the scriptures are clear to me on that... but in breaking things down like people want to do and explaining it so everyone else and 'me too' understand it all... No! Yet people insist that I need to take this side or that side, God has given me a different way of looking at that: Only He knows the ATs [Absolute Truths] of it and when I really need to know something according to His definition, it will be given to me.
Last edited:
Hypothetical questions don't move us closer to truth.
Did Jesus know the time of His return or not?
Much love!
if you answer it then it does otherwise we will go in circles.
your truthful answer can put an end to the discussion
No, this is an HYPOTHETICAL question, and there is no such thing as a "truthful answer". Hypotheticals can only be responded to with speculation, and the hypothetical can be spun any way anyone wants.
Let's ask the real question . . . IF Jesus emptied Himself of Omniscience, would He still be God? Yes, of course He would! He would be God taking on the life of a man. Which is exactly what the Bible teaches.
And the clearest example that He set aside His omniscience is the FACT that He did not, in that time, know when He would return.
You keep wanting to dance around this. He didn't know, because He emptied Himself, and was dependent on the Father, and the Father didn't tell Him.
Much love!
I'm not interested in your games. I've answered all the questions in the OP. Read it and every other answer in this thread that I've posted.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I'm still trying to figure out who the Us is in Genesis.. Let US make man in OUR image and likeness.
I think we have to begin somewhere.
And in John.. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. and is God.
Then you have the Word of the Lord speaking throughout the entire OT. Is this God, the Word, or Jesus?
Yes, Yes, Yes..
The Word became flesh and dwelt among men..
And all this because of one word in the book of Philippians.. turn the whole world upside down?
I dunno..
HUGS
Well, amadeus, that's true, but when heresy is demonstrably recognized as such, then one must decide as to where the error derives from. Is it from a bad place in one's heart, indoctrination, neophyte, ...? Like I said to 101G, the people that I was criticizing were extremely well versed in the Bible, and their theologies. And therefore, I felt that I was not dealing with an innocence or impetuousness, but a disregard for God's glory.
They would assert incomprehensible nonsense, that they themselves cannot explain or comprehend, permeated with non-Biblical terminology.
And all this, from men, whom I believe, studied in seminary. There's a time when gentle words will have no impact, these people are die-hards.
Extremely great and fair, ...unless one blasphemes Him. It's hard to reconcile the notion that one is truly seeking God, while at the same time defaming Him and His Word, with utter absurdities. Maybe I'm being naive but not appreciating how innocent such a theology and conviction can be, ...but, I don't think so. This is just offensive in every facet of Christian theology. God sent Himself, in order to propitiate Himself. God was mocked, abused, beaten and killed by His own creation. Jesus was a god-man (beyond incomprehensible, incompatible and implausible). No trinitarian terminology found anywhere in the Bible. Not one New Testament conversion took place using a trinitarian formula, I can really, really go on......
Do you think that I'm being impatient amadeus?
If this is to me, all I can say is, MY games?
I've asked the questions you cannot answer by your view, and rather than relook at the matter, you choose to evade. OK. I get it. So now unless I want to get into a discussion about things Scripture doesn't talk about, you won't engage with things Scripture does.
Much love!
This participation in a discussion of the Godhead on my part is a rare thing any more. What does God require of us in such things? Different things for different people according their experiences and knowledge and beliefs. God is able to sort it all out in each of us. He will direct us to different places if He sees that it is needed for us to walk a better closer walk with Him... and we are really allowing Him to lead rather than us insisting on holding onto our own reins.
Don't purposely, needlessly turn the world upside down, but sometimes it may be necessary and following the Lord you may be led to cause just such a disturbance. But... let it really be God as the instigator. He knows. We only know in part...
"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
It would seem that Jesus in fact did lay aside His omniscience, yet remained God.
John 5:19 "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
The Son did nothing of Himself. He refrained from self-direction, and was a True Servant, and served in the pattern set for all who will follow Him. That we likewise trust in the Father, and obey His lead in our lives, and live in His power through the Holy Spirit, just like Jesus.
Much love!
I do hear what you are saying. For me it has to be something that I believe God has made clear to me as to the correctness of the issue as I hold it and that it is His will for me to insert myself into the situation with another person or persons. I cannot speak for you or anyone else on what they really know and what God is leading them to do... unless He leads me into it. That is between them and God.
Jesus was most of the time as we read it in the gospels a gentle soul teaching the truth and healing folks... but as we know there were times when both his hands and his mouth were directed rather differently. With Jesus he knew the truth of the matter and he knew God's will for him to open his mouth and to use his hands. We should know those things as well prior to our actions. This is why, as I see it, a current connection with God is necessary now and all of the time when we are walking with Him. Good talking with you!
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I was doing a study on Psalm 1 and the counsel of the ungodly. Sometimes little things even as small as a jot or a tittle.. can lead people a bit off course.
Personally I don't feel that it has anything to do with one's salvation in believing and having faith in God.
But I enjoy the conversations as long as they don't get too heated. I learn a lot from listening, not so much about the topic itself, but all the words and scripture that are used around it.
Gives me lots of food for thought..
And I never go hungry here
:)
HUGS
Similar threads
