Dead in Sin !

[justbyfaith]

Hi @CharismaticLady,

I believe that 1 John 1:8 is not in contradiction to 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17 in that the former verse is speaking of indwelling sin whereas the latter verses are speaking of practical sins.

While the element of sin is not eradicated from us, it can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Thus, we find that, while we have indwelling sin as an element within our mortal flesh, we don't have to obey that principle of sin within us but can walk in freedom (John 8:31-36) and victory (1 Corinthians 15:57)...and this means that 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, hold true even in the face of the true meaning of 1 John 1:8...that we all have sin indwelling our mortal flesh, but that it can be rendered dead so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Hi jbf,

I just want you to know my thoughts on 1 John 1:9. There are two ways to interpret it and there is one that is more popular than the other, but I believe the other as it does not contradict scripture, whereas the more popular one certainly does. You just stated the popular one. But just think about my view for a little while before you answer.

I believe that when we are born again our old nature dies with Christ on the cross and is nailed there making us dead to sin. Romans 6:1-2. So ultimately there is no need to keep repeating repentance when the desire to sin is gone. Therefore, I teach that 1 John 1:9 is how to become a Christian. Acts of the Apostles 2:38. The baptism of the Holy Spirit makes us not in the flesh but in the Spirit if we indeed have the Spirit of God inside us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Romans 8:2 and Romans 8:9; (1 John 3:9 - context vs. 4)

1 John 5:16-17 shows two types of sin. 1 John 3:4 is the sin unto death. It is willful and rebellious and done against the written laws of God, and 1 John 3:9 says we CANNOT COMMIT those. Then there is the other type of sin, sins not unto death, called trespasses (Leviticus 5:15) and the only type of sin mentioned in the Lord's Prayer. Matthew 6:14-15, shows that we are commanded to love each other, and part of that is forgiving each other their flaws against us. Matthew 6:14-15 and 1 John 3:21-24 is what I do each day, and each night I check myself for any unforgiveness that I must shed to purify myself 1 John 3:3.

Note: 1 John 1:8 is BEFORE repenting and becoming a Christian in the next verse. Otherwise it contradicts the whole chapter of 1 John 3, and John wouldn't do that.

Matthew 6:14-15, shows that we are commanded to love each other, and part of that is forgiving each other their flaws against us. Matthew 6:14-15 and 1 John 3:21-24 is what I do each day, and each night I check myself for any unforgiveness that I must shed to purify myself 1 John 3:3.

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Lol....your “ purity” is as laughable as your “ holiness”......both are a Stench in the Nostrils of God.

Take note , all those out there that are New to the Faith—- you ain’t NEVER gonna “ BE” Pure or Holy in this Lifetime.....God will IMPUTE both of those things on your Heavenly Account —— In fact, He will go even FARTHER than that! He will flat-out bestow upon you the PERFECTION of His Son! What’s the Catch? All you have to do is Believe and REST in The Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4....
To REST in that Gospel means to Trust in the Finished Work Of The Cross and Add NOTHInG to the Two things that Save you—- Christ’s Blood and Your Faith....
Adhere to those Truths , realize that you are no longer under Law but under Grace and you will understand that all of your sins are already forgiven because of the Shed Blood at the Cross and that Forgiveness is NOT dependent on you Forgiving others. The Jesus that said , before the Cross, “ you must Forgive to be Forgiven” is the SAME Jesus that AFTER THE CROSS said , “ ALL of your Sins are Forgiven...”
The impetus for Forgiveness now is NOT to do it because you will be damned if you don’t do it—- the impetus NOW sounds like this —- “ If God can Save a Wretched man like myself who has offended Him countless times ...Why shouldn’t “I” extend Forgiveness to somebody that has “ offended” me?” Forgiveness is no longer Coerced....It comes Natural .....just like most things Spirit - Driven.The confused ....the deluded....the silly— they never get it. I hope you Newbies out there that have not been ruined yet truly “ get it”......May God bless us all in the understanding of these things....

 

[justbyfaith]

Lol....your “ purity” is as laughable as your “ holiness”......both are a Stench in the Nostrils of God.

We are all a stench in the nostrils of God, it would seem...if we are not pure we are impure...and that is also a stench in His nostrils.

What can be done for us if no matter what we do we are a stench in the nostrils of God?

He will say to every one of us "depart from me, ye workers of iniquity..."
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The blood of Jesus does in fact purify the heart in a practical sense (Matthew 5:8, 1 John 1:7, Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29)...

And this holiness and purity is a sweet-smelling aroma in God's nostrils (see also Revelation 19:8 (kjv)).

Rev 19:8, And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

as opposed to what we find here:

Isa 64:6, But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

The difference is that one is the righteousness of the law and the other is the righteousness which is of God by faith (Philippians 3:9).

Phl 3:9, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The righteousness which is of God by faith being a practical righteousness, even as Jesus is righteous ( 1 John 3:7).

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

and you will understand that all of your sins are already forgiven because of the Shed Blood at the Cross and that Forgiveness is NOT dependent on you Forgiving others.

It would seem that Jesus said that our forgiveness is dependent on our forgiving others, in Matthew 6:14-15 & Matthew 18:21-35...

Your point being that what He said before the Cross does not apply to us as believers...well, you can strike out of your Bible every word that Jesus spoke then (see Revelation 22:19 for your consequences).

Nevertheless, it is written,

Heb 1:1, God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The Jesus that said , before the Cross, “ you must Forgive to be Forgiven” is the SAME Jesus that AFTER THE CROSS said , “ ALL of your Sins are Forgiven...”

Where did Jesus say this after the Cross (in red letters)?

 

[brightfame52]

Your god arbitrarily puts people in hell, not because of their sin or because they rejected His gift of salvation; but because He simply wanted to place them there?

I'm sorry to tell you that you believe in a god who is satanic in nature.

Yes He chooses to put some people in hell for their sins. Problem?

 

[brightfame52]

Your god arbitrarily puts people in hell, not because of their sin or because they rejected His gift of salvation; but because He simply wanted to place them there?

I'm sorry to tell you that you believe in a god who is satanic in nature.

And yes He on the other hand He chose to have mercy on some people for their sins including sins of rejection of Him. Instead of punishing them He instead through Jesus Christ punished Him for all their unrighteousness and gives them a new heart and new Spirit that obeys and submit to Him. All of Grace.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes He chooses to put some people in hell for their sins. Problem?

And yes He on the other hand He chose to have mercy on some people for their sins including sins of rejection of Him. Instead of punishing them He instead through Jesus Christ punished Him for all their unrighteousness and gives them a new heart and new Spirit that obeys and submit to Him. All of Grace.

They can justly blame god, then, for their place in hell; because he predestinated them to go there not on the basis of their rejection of him but on the basis of his "good pleasure".

I don't know how your god can live with himself.

My understanding that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, on the other hand, means that those who go to hell have no one but themselves to blame for their plight. God did not send them to hell...they sent themselves there by rejecting God's only provision to pay the penalty for their sins.

In your scenario there is no need to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour; because He has already either chosen you or cast you away. And also, if you come to Him bot are not chosen, He will cast you out. However, such a thing is contrary to holy scripture (John 6:37).

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi @CharismaticLady,

I believe that 1 John 1:8 is not in contradiction to 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17 in that the former verse is speaking of indwelling sin whereas the latter verses are speaking of practical sins.

While the element of sin is not eradicated from us, it can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Thus, we find that, while we have indwelling sin as an element within our mortal flesh, we don't have to obey that principle of sin within us but can walk in freedom (John 8:31-36) and victory (1 Corinthians 15:57)...and this means that 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, hold true even in the face of the true meaning of 1 John 1:8...that we all have sin indwelling our mortal flesh, but that it can be rendered dead so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour.

I've never heard of practical sins in the Bible, and don't know what that means. As far as indwelling sin, isn't the soul and spirit where it resided? Those two parts of us is what is born again. Basically our nature, our mind and heart. Our body is just the shell that encases our soul and spirit. Or do you mean because our body must still die because of Adam's sin and put on immortality, that is where you believe is still "indwelling" sin, even though our soul and spirit is what controls it? If so, I can see why you would say that. But as far as 1 John 1:8 I believe it is talking about our soul and spirit, not our body. Whereas you believe it includes our body, correct?

 

[ChristisGod]

I've never heard of practical sins in the Bible, and don't know what that means. As far as indwelling sin, isn't the soul and spirit where it resided? Those two parts of us is what is born again. Basically our nature, our mind and heart. Our body is just the shell that encases our soul and spirit. Or do you mean because our body must still die because of Adam's sin and put on immortality, that is where you believe is still "indwelling" sin, even though our soul and spirit is what controls it? If so, I can see why you would say that. But as far as 1 John 1:8 I believe it is talking about our soul and spirit, not our body. Whereas you believe it includes our body, correct?

does your old man/old woman still exist ? yes or no

 

[CharismaticLady]

The impetus for Forgiveness now is NOT to do it because you will be damned if you don’t do it—- the impetus NOW sounds like this —- “ If God can Save a Wretched man like myself who has offended Him countless times ...Why shouldn’t “I” extend Forgiveness to somebody that has “ offended” me?” Forgiveness is no longer Coerced....It comes Natural .....just like most things Spirit - Driven.

I agree with this.

Just not the spirit in which it was written, a carnal spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

I've never heard of practical sins in the Bible, and don't know what that means.

Practical sins are sins that you commit, as opposed to the element of sin (as a principle) dwelling in your flesh.

Hope this helps.

 

[ChristisGod]

I agree with this.

Just not the spirit in which it was written, a carnal spirit.

ad hominem attacks again- a carnal spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

does your old man/old woman still exist ? yes or no

No, does yours?

Romans 6:6
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

 

[ChristisGod]

No, does yours?

Romans 6:6
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Jesus was crucified, does He still exist ?

 

[justbyfaith]

But as far as 1 John 1:8 I believe it is talking about our soul and spirit, not our body. Whereas you believe it includes our body, correct?

1 John 1:8 is referring to the body; whereas 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 1:9 are referring to the soul and spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Practical sins are sins that you commit, as opposed to the element of sin (as a principle) dwelling in your flesh.

Hope this helps.

Look at 1 John 5:16-17 and 1 John 3:4. When you say commit, are you talking about knowing full well it is against God's commandments, or are you talking about unknown trespasses, or even known immature fruit of the Spirit?

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus was crucified, does He still exist ?

Compare Romans 6:6 to Colossians 2:11 in the kjv.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jesus was crucified, does He still exist ?

Just as Jesus was resurrected, so is our soul and spirit, and eventually our body, BORN AGAIN.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

jbf

They can justly blame god, then, for their place in hell

No they cant, He punishing them justly for the sins they committed. Thats Justice

 

[justbyfaith]

Look at 1 John 5:16-17 and 1 John 3:4. When you say commit, are you talking about knowing full well it is against God's commandments, or are you talking about unknown trespasses, or even known immature fruit of the Spirit?

Both.

We cannot sin because we are not under the law anymore; therefore the law no longer points its finger at us to identify us as sinners. Therefore we obey according to the spirit and are no longer bound by the letter. And therefore sin has been redefined as walking according to the flesh. I believe that we can walk consistently according to the Spirit. See Romans 7:6, Galatians 5:18.

 

[CharismaticLady]

1 John 1:8 is referring to the body; whereas 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 1:9 are referring to the soul and spirit.

I don't even count the body, as it is just like a shell. Think of a bomb that comes in the mail. The box containing the bomb can do nothing to you.