Dead in Sin !

[justbyfaith]

jbf



No they cant, He punishing them justly for the sins they committed. Thats Justice

However, he provided them no opportunity for salvation; some in your scenario even sought salvation and god rejected them (which is contrary to scripture, John 6:37) because they were "not of his elect."

 

[ChristisGod]

Just as Jesus was resurrected, so is our soul and spirit, and eventually our body, BORN AGAIN.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

I see you avoided the question, typical as it exposed the error in your thinking.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Both.

We cannot sin because we are not under the law anymore; therefore the law no longer points its finger at us to identify us as sinners. Therefore we obey according to the spirit and are no longer bound by the letter. And therefore sin has been redefined as walking according to the flesh. I believe that we can walk consistently according to the Spirit. See Galatians 5:18.

This is why Paul commanded (commandment) us to not quench the Spirit. We must always walk in the Spirit. That is in our control, and the more we mature in the Lord and in the fruit of the Spirit, the stronger we are to never quench Him, but to always abide in Him. 1 John 3:24.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Both.

We cannot sin because we are not under the law anymore; therefore the law no longer points its finger at us to identify us as sinners. Therefore we obey according to the spirit and are no longer bound by the letter. And therefore sin has been redefined as walking according to the flesh. I believe that we can walk consistently according to the Spirit. See Romans 7:6, Galatians 5:18.

Another thought. Though we are not under the Old Law, we are under a stronger law called the Law of Liberty and CAN be judged by it. Here is James discussing the Old Law and how condemning it was, but notice verse 12, that most people overlook.

James 2:
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[ChristisGod]

I don't even count the body, as it is just like a shell. Think of a bomb that comes in the mail. The box containing the bomb can do nothing to you.

yet man IS a body,soul and spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I see you avoided the question, typical as it exposed the error in your thinking.

Well, of course, Jesus exists. He was resurrected. I thought that was plain in what I wrote.

 

[CharismaticLady]

yet man IS a body,soul and spirit.

Yes, it is. We are talking about the source of sin - it is our nature, whether the old man, or the born again new man. That is the soul and spirit. 1 John 3:9

 

[CharismaticLady]

Going for coffee, jbf

Talk to you later, brother.

 

[ChristisGod]

Well, of course, Jesus exists. He was resurrected. I thought that was plain in what I wrote.

then by your own admission here the old man still exists, thanks !

 

[brightfame52]

jbf

My understanding that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, on the other hand, means that those who go to hell have no one but themselves to blame for their plight. God did not send them to hell...they sent themselves there by rejecting God's only provision to pay the penalty for their sins.

Your understanding lacks spiritual understanding.

Faith accompanies Salvation, and when the born again have it, it does give access to the Grace they already have.

Yes, the ones going to hell deserve it because they sinned against Gods Law, and God sends them to hell as righteous Judge.

Those Christ died for cant go to hell for sin of rejection of Christ, Christ died for that sin as well as all of their other sins. God has mercy on their rejection of Him and saves them inspite of by giving them a new heart and faith in Salvation.

See it doesn't matter if one for whom Christ died reject Him, God didn't reject Christs Offering for their sin thats what matters mot, thats why He saves them in spite of their rejection, for Christs sake and His Sake only

Isa 43 25
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't even count the body, as it is just like a shell. Think of a bomb that comes in the mail. The box containing the bomb can do nothing to you.

Christ died for the body, its His 1 Cor 6

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

 

[CharismaticLady]

then by your own admission here the old man still exists, thanks !

Yours may, mine is long dead, and a new one has been resurrected. Not the same nature as yours at all. Just look at the spirit behind your posts. It is mean. You don't have to stay that way. You can repent.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yours may, mine is long dead, and a new one has been resurrected. Not the same nature as yours at all. Just look at the spirit behind your posts. It is mean. You don't have to stay that way. You can repent.

nothing mean in my post its you who are making all the personal attacks- ad hominem.

 

[brightfame52]

However, he provided them no opportunity for salvation; some in your scenario even sought salvation and god rejected them (which is contrary to scripture, John 6:37) because they were "not of his elect."

Salvation is by Grace. You sound like sinners deserve Grace !

 

[CharismaticLady]

nothing mean in my post its you who are making all the personal attacks- ad hominem.

This is why you twist my words and do not understand the crucifixion and resurrection and how it applies to the rebirth. The natural carnal man also bears false witness without conscience.

I Corinthians 2:
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Christ died for the body, its His 1 Cor 6

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

So you are saying, He didn't die for our sin nature in order to change us and let us partake of the divine nature? Just our body so it can become immortal.

 

[brightfame52]

So you are saying, He didn't die for our sin nature, to let us partake of the divine nature? Just our body so it can become immortal. Do we take our sin nature to heaven with us?

huh ? You went off the deep end on me. You made I comment about the body

"I don't even count the body, as it is just like a shell. Think of a bomb that comes in the mail. The box containing the bomb can do nothing to you.

And I made a comment about the body in response !

 

[CharismaticLady]

huh ? You went off the deep end on me. You made I comment about the body

And I made a comment about the body in response !

I'm still curious about what you actually believe.

Do you believe we take our sin nature to heaven with us?

Be careful of the heresy and doctrine of demons that Jesus died to take our punishment so we can go and sin without condemnation. Those who love that doctrine because it tickles their ears, Jesus will say to them, "Depart from Me, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity." Don't let Satan trap you into believing that 500 year old common doctrine straight from hell.

 

[CharismaticLady]

"accepting Jesus" is another false teaching. man cannot come to Christ unless He is drawn and all who are drawn will come. This is just another one of your verses ripped from the greater context- All He draws will come. That is the problem with your method of bible study.

John 6:37,44-45
37"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

The Greek word translated “draw” is helkuo, which means “to drag” (literally or figuratively). Clearly, this drawing is a one-sided affair. God does the drawing to salvation; we who are drawn have a passive role in the process. There is no doubt that we respond to His drawing us, but the drawing itself is all on His part.

Helkuo is used in John 21:6 to refer to a heavy net full of fish being dragged to the shore. In John 18:10 we see Peter drawing his sword, and in Acts 16:19 helkuo is used to describe Paul and Silas being dragged into the marketplace before the rulers. Clearly, the net had no part in its being drawn to the shore, Peter’s sword had no part in being drawn, and Paul and Silas did not drag themselves to the marketplace. The same can be said of God’s drawing of some to salvation. Some come willingly, and some are dragged unwillingly, but all eventually come, although we have no part in the drawing. got?


Deuteronomy 30:6
And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

Ezekiel 26:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you…27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Ezekiel 36:26
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

John 1:12-13
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Acts 11:8
When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Acts 13:48 “as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Colossians 2:13
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

2 Timothy 2:25
Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

James 1:18
Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

hope this helps!!!

C, this chapter can be confusing if you don't use proper exegesis. They didn't in the Reformation, and most still don't. There are key words that apply to ONLY the twelve disciples, including Judas, and the error comes in using it for all believers, which makes the belief contradict the whole of God's words. Compare with John 17 and see if you can spiritually see and discern the difference.

Key words "Father GAVE."

 

[ChristisGod]

C, this chapter can be confusing if you don't use proper exegesis. They didn't in the Reformation, and most still don't. There are key words that apply to ONLY the twelve disciples, including Judas, and the error comes in using it for all believers, which makes the belief contradict the whole of God's words. Compare with John 17 and see if you can spiritually see and discern the difference.

Key words "Father GAVE."

yep just as I thought no biblical evidence for accepting Jesus, just the typical excuses