Where does the Bible say...

[WaterSong]

Total nonsense. Grace alone and Christ alone was borrowed wholesale from the Catholic Church which continues to teach them.
Anathema does not mean cursed, it follows St. Paul's example which means cut off. Misrepresenting the Council of Trent is classic radical reformism. Vatican II reformulated the CofT which you know nothing about, and the Church hasn't used the word "anathema" for 200 years. You are locked into 16th century argumentation, avoid recent encyclicals because you can't handle the needed development and refuse to grow up.

Is your signature that which you read and re-read in order to one day hope your personality will one day achieve that detailed discipline when addressing people in discussion forums?
Excerpted Source: Catholic Encyclopedia ~ Council of Trent

"....The Ecumenical Council of Trent has proved to be of the greatest importance for the development of the inner life of the Church. No council has ever had to accomplish its task under more serious difficulties, none has had so many questions of the greatest importance to decide. The assembly proved to the world that notwithstanding repeated apostasy in church life there still existed in it an abundance of religious force and of loyal championship of the unchanging principles of Christianity. Although unfortunately the council, through no fault of the fathers assembled, was not able to heal the religious differences of western Europe, yet the infallible Divine truth was clearly proclaimed in opposition to the false doctrines of the day, and in this way a firm foundation was laid for the overthrow of heresy and the carrying out of genuine internal reform in the Church." [end excerpt]

The Councils of Trent and Vatican II are still in effect today.That one factor highlighted in red, is that factor that makes what the “infallible” councils of Bishops of the Council of Trent pronounced as anathemas immutable.

Immutable definition, not mutable; unchangeable; changeless. See more.


Edit to add, Council of Trent.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Where does the Bible say the Bible is the final authority?

Where do we go to answer the question?

 

[BreadOfLife]

At this point I think what may help my sisters and brothers in encountering posts by BoL and theefaith is that they adhere to the declaration, the finding, by the Council of Trent. Which decreed anyone who holds to any or all of the five Solas, including Sola Scriptura, are cursed (anathema)! ~The Council of Trent - Session 6~

It is fear of the curse that causes Catholics to hold to the CoT's finding in all matters.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven.

God's command in Deuteronomy does not have an expiration date. What Does the Bible Say About Dont Change Gods Word?
Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 4 - New American Standard Bible

2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

YIKES - another mind-numbingly ignorant and historically-bankrupt claim from yet another clueless anti-Catholic.
Allow me to educate you . . .

The "Anathemas" at Trent weren't aimed at YOU or your lifelong Protestant friends. They were aimed at CATHOLICS who went into heresy - like your Protestant Fathers, Luther, Calvin, Zwingili, et al. These men were CATHOLICS who became apostate.

As to YOUR perversion of Matt. 23:9 - this is one of my favorite anti-Catholic lies.
Did Jesus "forbid" us to call ANY man our "Father" - even if he IS our Father? Absolutely NOT. In the verse that precedes this (Matt. 23:8) - He forbids the use of the term "Teacher". Jesus is talking about not calling anybody "Father" or "Teacher - ABOVE our Father and Teacher in Heaven.

Consider the following verses, Einstein . . .
- Honor your FATHER and mother" (Exod 20:12).
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
- "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
- "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
"God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

I suggest you do your HOMEWORK instead of making these embarrassing claims . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Lol me angry? I'm not the one shouting at everyone. And I didn't fail. I gave you some scriptures (could have been more) that show the word of God as the source of truth...I am the Truth, Jesus said. And what is written in the prophets and the law, the gospels and the rest of the NT, is Truth, because all scripture is about Jesus.
"To the law and the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them. " Isaiah 8:20.

Thank you for AGAIN proving my point.

As a Catholic - I wholeheartedly agree that God's Word is the source of truth.
However - that's NOT what I asked you guys to prove.

I asked you for Scriptural proof that SCRIPURE is our "SOLE" Authority.
You have all FAILED . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say you were a Jesuit. And I know what a Jesuit is. I said your response was a Jesuit response. You see scripture clear and plainly offered, and you deny the obvious. What is white you call black. What is black you declare white. Blind subservient slavery to a system of imprisonment that demands everyone believe the church as a final authority in direct opposition to the plain words of the Most High.

Then SHOW me where I "denied" Scripture.
If you can't - then just admit that you lied and move on . . .

 

[WaterSong]

Where do we go to answer the question?

Would you say a rebuttal question one might put to theefaith per their question, where does the Bible say the Bible is the final authority, would be, where in the Bible is it written God is not the final authority?
When the Bible is God breathed, what theefaith is affirming is actually blasphemy. Insisting God's words hold no authority, when they question whether God's word is final authority, and when insisting sovereign God's words and will need the help of fallen man to be understood and fulfilled.

The RCC believes and teaches the Catholic Bible is the only authority for Sacred Scripture. I think we're being played by someone who hates Protestants so much they'll corrupt the RCC way of belief in order to bait us into debate.Theefaith et al, are then able to unleash their animus and vitriol on respondents. As we see.

 

[amigo de christo]

Would you say a rebuttal question one might put to theefaith per their question, where does the Bible say the Bible is the final authority, would be, where in the Bible is it written God is not the final authority?
When the Bible is God breathed, what theefaith is affirming is actually blasphemy. Insisting God's words hold no authority, when they question whether God's word is final authority, and when insisting sovereign God's words and will need the help of fallen man to be understood and fulfilled.

The RCC believes and teaches the Catholic Bible is the only authority for Sacred Scripture. I think we're being played by someone who hates Protestants so much they'll corrupt the RCC way of belief in order to bait us into debate.Theefaith et al, are then able to unleash their animus and vitriol on respondents. As we see.

End of discussion . THE BIBLE ISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS the final authority . And frankly i care not who that offends .
Because GOD IS the Final AUTHORITY , THUS EVERY WORD HE SPEAKETH IS what we cling to and what we TEST everything else against .
JESUS made it very clear . This world can do and will do and shall do as it pleases , SO will rome and almost every protestant church .
BUT IT DONT MEAN I GOTTA follow them . I WONT DO IT . LET ME DIE first . They never set me free , JESUS DID . TO GOD ALONE
belongs the glory and JESUS IS THE GLORY OF GOD . I never expected easy times in this life , And i dont expect to live
forever in this body . Let the world , all its false religoins , all its kings and presidents , all its peoples , religions
and even all the faiths within christendom , even an angel try to sway me . AND IT AINT HAPENING . OUR MINDS better be FULLY MADE UP
and FULLY PERSAUDED , or many more are simply gonna fall to a lie and delusion .

 

[ReChoired]

Nope.
See post #21.

Yeppers, see post #20.

Where does the Bible say...

 

[amigo de christo]

Would you say a rebuttal question one might put to theefaith per their question, where does the Bible say the Bible is the final authority, would be, where in the Bible is it written God is not the final authority?
When the Bible is God breathed, what theefaith is affirming is actually blasphemy. Insisting God's words hold no authority, when they question whether God's word is final authority, and when insisting sovereign God's words and will need the help of fallen man to be understood and fulfilled.

The RCC believes and teaches the Catholic Bible is the only authority for Sacred Scripture. I think we're being played by someone who hates Protestants so much they'll corrupt the RCC way of belief in order to bait us into debate.Theefaith et al, are then able to unleash their animus and vitriol on respondents. As we see.

Anyone can say anything . WE WILL STICK TO THE BIBLE as the absolute WORD of GOD by which we test everything .
Let it anger the pope and the world , I WONT BUDGE . PEROID

 

[Mungo]

Would you say a rebuttal question one might put to theefaith per their question, where does the Bible say the Bible is the final authority, would be, where in the Bible is it written God is not the final authority?
When the Bible is God breathed, what theefaith is affirming is actually blasphemy. Insisting God's words hold no authority, when they question whether God's word is final authority, and when insisting sovereign God's words and will need the help of fallen man to be understood and fulfilled.

The RCC believes and teaches the Catholic Bible is the only authority for Sacred Scripture. I think we're being played by someone who hates Protestants so much they'll corrupt the RCC way of belief in order to bait us into debate.Theefaith et al, are then able to unleash their animus and vitriol on respondents. As we see.

A load of gibberish.

The Bible has no authority. Authority belongs to a person not a book. The Bible is authoritative, meaning true and reliable.

Before he ascended to heaven Jesus said to the apostles “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20).
Jesus was given authority by the Father. He in turn passed on authority to the apostles, who passed it on to others in their turn.

 

[ReChoired]

I didn't say you were a Jesuit. And I know what a Jesuit is. I said your response was a Jesuit response. You see scripture clear and plainly offered, and you deny the obvious. What is white you call black. What is black you declare white. Blind subservient slavery to a system of imprisonment that demands everyone believe the church as a final authority in direct opposition to the plain words of the Most High.

Yes, in that wicked counterfeit (anti-christos, vicarius-christi) system of Roman Catholicism, they teach that the Magisterium is superior to both 'bible' and 'Tradition', and they self defined which is which and which to be obeyed or disregarded. It starts with an incorrect apriori and uses circular logic to justify itself, proving what it desired by what it started with. Consider:

 

[Mungo]

Yes, in that wicked counterfeit (anti-christos, vicarius-christi) system of Roman Catholicism, they teach that the Magisterium is superior to both 'bible' and 'Tradition', and they self defined which is which and which to be obeyed or disregarded. It starts with an incorrect apriori and uses circular logic to justify itself, proving what it desired by what it started with. Consider:

More lies about the Catholic Church. It does NOT teach that the Magisterium is superior to both 'bible' and 'Tradition'.
This is what it actually teaches about the Magisterium and the Bible:
"Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it" (Catechism of The Catholic Church, para 86) - my emboldening.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, in that wicked counterfeit (anti-christos, vicarius-christi) system of Roman Catholicism, they teach that the Magisterium is superior to both 'bible' and 'Tradition' . . .

More lies about the Catholic Church. It does NOT teach that the Magisterium is superior to both 'bible' and 'Tradition'.
This is what it actually teaches about the Magisterium and the Bible:
"Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it" (Catechism of The Catholic Church, para 86) - my emboldening.

Thank you for beating me to the punch on this one and exposing @Rechoird's desperate lies . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yeppers, see post #20.

Where does the Bible say...

WRONG again.
Isaiah 8:20 says absolutely NOTHING about the written Word of God.

In the depths of your ignorance, you have forgotten that to the Jews, the mantle of God's Word was BOTH the written AND the oral. It encompassed BOTH Scripture AND Tradition.

As I proved to you before - the false Protestant invention of Sola Scriptura is a self-defeating proposition because it CAN'T be supported by the very Scriptures it purports to be our "Sole Authority" . . .

 

[WaterSong]

Yes, in that wicked counterfeit (anti-christos, vicarius-christi) system of Roman Catholicism, they teach that the Magisterium is superior to both 'bible' and 'Tradition', and they self defined which is which and which to be obeyed or disregarded. It starts with an incorrect apriori and uses circular logic to justify itself, proving what it desired by what it started with.

Addressing your observations regarding the Magisterium, ( The magisterium is the official teaching office of the Church, including the pope and the bishops in union with him.)

You are correct.
Catholic Answers:
encyclopedia

Tradition and Living Magisterium
Excerpt: "Holy Scripture is therefore not the only theological source of the Revelation made by God to His Church. Side by side with Scripture there is tradition, side by side with the written revelation there is the oral revelation. This granted, it is impossible to be satisfied with the Bible alone for the solution of all dogmatic questions. Such was the first field of controversy between Catholic theologians and the reformers. The designation of unwritten Divine traditions was not always given all the clearness desirable, especially in early times; however Catholic controversialists soon proved to the Protestants that to be logical and consistent they must admit unwritten traditions as revealed. Otherwise by what right did they rest on Sunday and not on Saturday? How could they regard infant baptism as valid, or baptism by infusion? How could they permit the taking of an oath, since Christ had commanded that we swear not at all? The Quakers were more logical in refusing all oaths, the Anabaptists in rebaptizing adults, the Sabbatarians in resting on Saturday. But none were so consistent as not to be open to criticism on some point. Where is it indicated in the Bible that the Bible is the sole source of faith? Going further, the Catholic controversialists showed their opponents that of this very Bible, to which alone they wished to refer, they could not have the authentic canon nor even a sufficient guarantee without an authority other than that of the Bible." *Continues at link*

 

[Brakelite]

Total nonsense. Grace alone and Christ alone was borrowed wholesale from the Catholic Church which continues to teach them.
Anathema does not mean cursed, it follows St. Paul's example which means cut off. Misrepresenting the Council of Trent is classic radical reformism. Vatican II reformulated the CofT which you know nothing about, and the Church hasn't used the word "anathema" for 200 years. You are locked into 16th century argumentation, avoid recent encyclicals because you can't handle the needed development and refuse to grow up.

Total nonsense would not apply to your post. I can make full sense of it. What it is is a lie and the temper tantrum of an angry child who has no Biblical argument or point to make. Christ alone a Catholic concept? How long have you been with us and you still don't understand the meaning of Antichrist and how that title belongs uniquely and specifically to the Catholic system?

 

[WaterSong]

Sisters and brothers in Christ please also be aware in this discussion that the Catholic Tradition also denies Salvation by grace alone. One of the Five Solas the Council of Trent decreed Anathema! Faith alone is another that is decreed anathema!

Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
(Maybe consider this when reading the bold part of my reply below and the church account of the authority of the Bible. If the Bible is what they say it is, how can they say faith alone, grace alone, are accursed? Add them together and they are not? Grace through faith, faith through grace?)
The Old Testament books were written for Jews, the New Testament books for people who already were Christians.

“If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Sixth Session, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 12).

A load of gibberish.

The Bible has no authority. Authority belongs to a person not a book. The Bible is authoritative, meaning true and reliable.

Before he ascended to heaven Jesus said to the apostles “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20).
Jesus was given authority by the Father. He in turn passed on authority to the apostles, who passed it on to others in their turn.

I don't believe it can be said you know of what you speak.


Catholic.org
Encyclopedia
Anathema
(Greek anathema -- literally, placed on high, suspended, set aside).
"..."To understand the word anathema", says Vigouroux, "we should first go back to the real meaning of herem of which it is the equivalent. Herem comes from the word haram, to cut off, to separate, to curse, and indicates that which is cursed and condemned to be cut off or exterminated, whether a person or a thing, and in consequence, that which man is forbidden to make use of." " (Continues)



DECLARATIONS OF THE COUNCIL OF TRENT

FOURTH SESSION: DECREE CONCERNING THE CANONICAL SCRIPTURES: "If anyone does not accept as sacred and canonical the aforesaid books in their entirety and with all their parts [the 66 books of the Bible plus 12 apocryphal books, being two of Paralipomenon, two of Esdras, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Sophonias, two of Macabees], as they have been accustomed to be read in the Catholic Church and as they are contained in the old Latin Vulgate Edition, and knowingly and deliberately rejects the aforesaid traditions, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA."


PROVIDENTISSIMUS DEUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE STUDY OF HOLY SCRIPTURE
Excerpted:
"....13. At the commencement of a course of Holy Scripture let the Professor strive earnestly to form the judgment of the young beginners so as to train them equally to defend the sacred writings and to penetrate their meaning. This is the object of the treatise which is called "Introduction." Here the student is taught how to prove the integrity and authority of the Bible, how to investigate and ascertain its true sense, and how to meet and refute objections. It is needless to insist upon the importance of making these preliminary studies in an orderly and thorough fashion, with the accompaniment and assistance of Theology; for the whole subsequent course must rest on the foundation thus laid and make use of the light thus acquired. Next, the teacher will turn his earnest attention to that more fruitful division of Scripture science which has to do with Interpretation; wherein is imparted the method of using the word of God for the advantage of religion and piety. We recognize without hesitation that neither the extent of the matter nor the time at disposal allows each single Book of the Bible to be separately gone through. But the teaching should result in a definite and ascertained method of interpretation-and therefore the Professor should equally avoid the mistake of giving a mere taste of every Book, and of dwelling at too great length on a part of one Book. If most schools cannot do what is done in the large institutions-that is, take the students through the whole of one or two Books continuously and with a certain development-yet at least those parts which are selected should be treated with suitable fulness; in such a way that the students may learn from the sample that is thus put before them to love and use the remainder of the sacred Book during the whole of their lives. The Professor, following the tradition of antiquity, will make use of the Vulgate as his text; for the Council of Trent decreed that "in public lectures, disputations, preaching, and exposition,"(29) the Vulgate is the "authentic" version; and this is the existing custom of the Church. At the same time, the other versions which Christian antiquity has approved, should not be neglected, more especially the more ancient MSS. For although the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek is substantially rendered by the Vulgate, nevertheless wherever there may be ambiguity or want of clearness, the "examination of older tongues,"(30) to quote St. Augustine, will be useful and advantageous. But in this matter we need hardly say that the greatest prudence is required, for the "office of a commentator," as St. Jerome says, "is to set forth not what he himself would prefer, but what his author says."(31) The question of "readings" having been, when necessary, carefully discussed, the next thing is to investigate and expound the meaning. And the first counsel to be given is this: That the more our adversaries contend to the contrary, so much the more solicitously should we adhere to the received and approved canons of interpretation. Hence, whilst weighing the meanings of words, the connection of ideas, the parallelism of passages, and the like, we should by all means make use of such illustrations as can be drawn from apposite erudition of an external sort; but this should be done with caution, so as not to bestow on questions of this kind more labour and time than are spent on the Sacred Books themselves, and not to overload the minds of the students with a mass of information that will be rather a hindrance than a help." (Continues at link)

 

[Brakelite]

In the depths of your ignorance, you have forgotten

...
...that Jesus rebuked the Jews for allowing their oral traditions to circumvent in some cases, and completely obliterate in others, the specific commandments of God, a complaint which can also be laid squarely at the feet of the Papal apostasy.

 

[Brakelite]

Allow me to educate you . . .

No thanks.

Then SHOW me where I "denied" Scripture.

As @ReChoired has repeatedly offered and as has been as often rejected, "To the law and to the testimony (the prophets), if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them". Isaiah 8:20. That scripture does not get any clearer, and the Catholic church's rejection of scripture as final and sole authority is born out in their rejection of that scripture and its disobedience to it. The church claims the authority to over-rule, through its own traditions, the very law of God.
"Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day. Six days shalt thou work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God..." Exodus 20.

"Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God,

Who makes the final decision on Catholic dogma?

 

[Nancy]

that’s true but there must be an authority

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors in the church founded in the one true founded by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

————————-

The obedience of faith!

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.

Taught the one true faith revealed by Christ to His apostles! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

we must obey those who God puts in authority over us! Matt 28:19 teach them to observe all things I have commanded you

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
John 14:26

If we even only one time read a scripture verse, the Holy Spirit WILL "bring ALL to our remembrance".
There were those who, immediately came into the Church at it's inception, who skewed and twisted scriptures so, so much for the "early fathers". I believe the Apostolic succession stopped with the death of the last apostle of Christ. We now have the Comforter to teach us and guide us in ALL things.
Their oh so very many false teachings out there and I prefer to filter all things through the living and active Word of God