Those who deny Eternal Security

[Michiah-Imla]

He was referring back to Exodus 3:14, saying that if you do not believe that He is the great I AM, you will die in your sins.

He was referring to this:

"I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." (John 8:18)

Witness that he (Jesus) is the one referenced through out the Old Testament as he that should come to bring salvation to the world.

Isaiah 53 being the most powerful witness of them all.

But there is also this scripture in the Old Testament that says:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

Clearly referring to Jesus Christ.

I’m not disputing that Jesus is God.

There’s plenty of scripture that implies that he is God.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The God that I know is FULL of Grace and Mercy....That “ mean old man in the sky” that you are familiar with is the one I used to think of.

What is strange is that you’re okay with a doctrine that introduces a god that was brutal to sinners in the Old Testament who had no ability to keep the law to begin with.

What kind of god would have a people killed and punished for something they could not control?

Can’t you see the error of your doctrine?

Look at the fruit your doctrine produces in you; You have a utter contempt and hatred for those magnifying good living.

That’s bizarre coming from a professing Christian.

 

[justbyfaith]

I would prefer you respond with Chapter and Verse to prove me wrong.....you cant.

I have....but the reality of it apparently went right over your head.

I am trying to “ Out” you for the Hypocrite that you are....

May the Lord abundantly bless you and receive you as a son...and I mean that.

Ahhhhhh......how touching ....I know that was “sincere”..... doesn’t it suck to have to pretend you are like Jesus?

It doesn't suck to act like Jesus...and it doesn't suck to respond as Paul said the apostles responded to similar things (1 Corinthians 4:12-13)...obedience is joy to me.

Now, it should be clear that I am not all benevolence in asking for the Lord to receive you as a son...in conferring this blessing upon you, I am asking Him to scourge you for your ill-behaviour towards me (Hebrews 12:6)....but of course I want that scourging to have the end result of making you fit for heaven (Hebrews 12:11).

 

[justbyfaith]

He was referring to this:

"I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." (John 8:18)

Witness that he (Jesus) is the one referenced through out the Old Testament as he that should come to bring salvation to the world.

Isaiah 53 being the most powerful witness of them all.

But there is also this scripture in the Old Testament that says:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

Clearly referring to Jesus Christ.

I’m not disputing that Jesus is God.

There’s plenty of scripture that implies that he is God.

I've already said my piece so I am not going to argue it any further.

What I have said on the subject matter stands and is sound doctrine concerning the issue.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I've already said my piece so I am not going to argue it any further.

What I have said on the subject matter stands and is sound doctrine concerning the issue.

That is not a good attitude to have when you claim the scripture says something that it does not. There’s no need to read into that particular scripture a doctrine that is better supported elsewhere in scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is not a good attitude to have when you claim the scripture says something that it does not. There’s no need to read into that particular scripture a doctrine that is better supported elsewhere in scripture.

John 8:24 says something that others do not: that the doctrine of Christ's Deity is essential for salvation.

Therefore I am not going to discount it as being a scripture that speaks of the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

If you want to deny it, be my guest.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

John 8:24 says something that others do not: that the doctrine of Christ's Deity is essential for salvation.

Therefore I am not going to discount it as being a scripture that speaks of the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

If you want to deny it, be my guest.

So you must believe that Jesus is God to be saved?

That is not taught anywhere in scripture.

Not in the Acts of the Apostles, not in any of Paul’s inspired letters, no in any other of the inspired writers letters.

That’s a stretch bro.

Provide me another witness from scripture to support what you imagine to be taught in John 8:24 and I’ll be persuaded.

 

[ChristisGod]

John 8:24 says something that others do not: that the doctrine of Christ's Deity is essential for salvation.

Therefore I am not going to discount it as being a scripture that speaks of the doctrine of Christ's Deity.

If you want to deny it, be my guest.

then you are dead in your sins as a kenosis heretic.

 

[justbyfaith]

then you are dead in your sins as a kenosis heretic.

And, you appear to have some kind of vendetta against me.

I would only refer you to Luke 6:41-42.

 

[ChristisGod]

jbf you are guilty of John 8:24 by denying Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. Kenosis by definition denies all 3 passages. Your false christ was not fully God and lacked the same Divine Attributes of the Father and Holy Spirit.

You are not a trinitarian no matter how much you cry wolf.................................

btw- you have a vendetta against every poster who doesn't agree with you.

pot calling kettle- log in the eye calling splinter..........................

 

[justbyfaith]

So you must believe that Jesus is God to be saved?

That is not taught anywhere in scripture.

It is taught in John 8:24.

Provide me another witness from scripture to support what you imagine to be taught in John 8:24 and I’ll be persuaded.

I don't have any need to persuade you of the essentiality of believing in Christ's Deity as long as you believe in it yourself.

Of course, the one verse that does teach it is enough to make my case; and it would do you well to believe in it because it may lead you to contend for the doctrine with people. Those in your immediate circle of influence who might perish without that knowledge.

I think that even the possibility that John 8:24 says what I say it says should lead you to contend for the doctrine more often in the immediate future.

 

[justbyfaith]

jbf you are guilty of John 8:24 by denying Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. Kenosis by definition denies all 3 passages. Your false christ was not fully God and lacked the same Divine Attributes of the Father and Holy Spirit.

You are not a trinitarian no matter how much you cry wolf.................................

I do not deny any of those passages.

I know that I believe in a distinction between the members in the Godhead; and that I believe that God is one more than you believe that God is one. That makes me trinitarian, no matter how much you cry wolf to the contrary.

You can decry me as a heretic all you want; however I know that I believe all that is written in the law and the prophets (and in the gospels, and in the epistles, and in the book of Revelation).

On the final day you will be found as having tried to deter people from believing the truth as it came from this humble vessel; I would not want to be you on that day; while you may indeed enter into the kingdom by the skin of your teeth.

 

[ChristisGod]

if Jesus was not impeccable, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient then He was not God.

 

[justbyfaith]

if Jesus was not impeccable, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient then He was not God.

I do not believe that.

The Spirit of God fully dwelt in the Person of Jesus Christ but was limited by His own choosing because of His added human nature.

The finite human brain of our Lord could not by definition contain Omniscience; while the Spirit who dwelt in that same finite human brain was in every way Omniscient.

We are Omniscient in a similar manner (1 John 2:20).

 

[justbyfaith]

btw- you have a vendetta against every poster who doesn't agree with you.

Prove it.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I think that even the possibility that John 8:24 says what I say it says should lead you to contend for the doctrine more often in the immediate future.

The things of God and Christ are a mystery.

"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ" (Colossians 2:2)

This scripture does not say that we must acknowledge that Jesus is God. This would have been a place where such a doctrine as you assert to be true (Acknowledging Jesus is God for salvation) would have been mentioned in my estimation.

If it were essential for salvation it would have been clearly confirmed through out the New Testament canon.

 

[Cooper]

So you must believe that Jesus is God to be saved?

That is not taught anywhere in scripture.

Not in the Acts of the Apostles, not in any of Paul’s inspired letters, no in any other of the inspired writers letters.

That’s a stretch bro.

Provide me another witness from scripture to support what you imagine to be taught in John 8:24 and I’ll be persuaded.

Seeing as only God can save, why would we look to Jesus for salvation if he is not God?

I get it now, some people believe Jesus was only the lamb of God, but not actually God, ignoring the fact that Jesus is the I AM, the Mighty God, King of kings and Lord of lords.

What Does the Bible Say About Jesus Being The Savior Of The World?
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[justbyfaith]

The things of God and Christ are a mystery.

"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ" (Colossians 2:2)

This scripture does not say that we must acknowledge that Jesus is God. This would have been a place where such a doctrine as you assert to be true (Acknowledging Jesus is God for salvation) would have been mentioned in my estimation.

If it were essential for salvation it would have been clearly confirmed through out the New Testament canon.

The Lord only has to say it once for me to believe in it.

Especially when the statement is presented in the form of a threat.

I am not going to take any chances where the Lord has made a threat of doing that which would cause Him to make good on it.

It comes down again to the whole concept of "gambling on eternity".
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As for Colossians 2:2, the word "and" is the Greek word "kai" which can be translated "even".

So that it can accurately be rendered,

Col 2:2, That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, even of the Father, even of Christ;

So, it actually does teach that we need to acknowledge Jesus Christ as being the God who created us.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Matthew 13:41
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Christians will not endure those negative aspects of God’s Dealings with humans.....unbelievers will however...do you think that God created this entire Universe and created Mankind just so he would have an excuse to be angry all of the time ? What a way to live! Even for God!

 

[justbyfaith]

Christians will not endure those negative aspects of God’s Dealings with humans.....unbelievers will however...do you think that God created this entire Universe and created Mankind just so he would have an excuse to be angry all of the time ? What a way to live! Even for God!

Unbelievers are identified as those who commit iniquity (1 John 5:1, 1 John 3:9).

God's anger will be appeased when those who commit iniquity are cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41; Matthew 13:41-42).