Those who deny Eternal Security

[BloodBought 1953]

It comes down again to the whole concept of "gambling on eternity".
.

Wanna “ Gamble” On Eternity ? Refuse to REST in the Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4..... That Gospel Plus NOTHING for your Salvation.....Heb 3 and 4 say that if you REFUSE God’S REST, He will declare you “ Disobedient and Guilty Of UNBELIEF”...... you take that gamble every day though.....don’t you? Your Salvation is not a GIFT.....it is a TRADE........You Trade your perfectly clean slate of Repentance in for your supposed “ Salvation”.....You will be saying to God, “ Look what “ I” did ! I had the Super Memory and the Luck to Repent Of all of my Sins ! It trumped the Shed Blood Of Your Son! My “ empty Repentance slate” was EVERYTHING —— now give me what you owe me ! Give me what I DESERVE!
God will grant you your demand .....he will give you what you “ Deserve” for putting your “repentance performance” before His Blood.....You “ Deserve “ Nothing But An Eternity in Hell ....it will be granted to you.....”Depart from me , I Never knew you”....

 

[Cooper]

Christians will not endure those negative aspects of God’s Dealings with humans.....unbelievers will however...do you think that God created this entire Universe and created Mankind just so he would have an excuse to be angry all of the time ? What a way to live! Even for God!

We have a righteous God. There is no place for wickedness. Sin separates eternally.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

Wanna “ Gamble” On Eternity ? Refuse to REST in the Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4..... That Gospel Plus NOTHING for your Salvation.....Heb 3 and 4 say that if you REFUSE God’S REST, He will declare you “ Disobedient and Guilty Of UNBELIEF”...... you take that gamble every day though.....don’t you? Your Salvation is not a GIFT.....it is a TRADE........You Trade your perfectly clean slate of Repentance in for your supposed “ Salvation”.....You will be saying to God, “ Look what “ I” did ! I had the Super Memory and the Luck to Repent Of all of my Sins ! It trumped the Shed Blood Of Your Son! My “ empty Repentance slate” was EVERYTHING —— now give me what you owe me ! Give me what I DESERVE!
God will grant you your demand .....he will give you what you “ Deserve” for putting your “repentance performance” before His Blood.....You “ Deserve “ Nothing But An Eternity in Hell ....it will be granted to you.....”Depart from me , I Never knew you”....

Again, I am not trusting in anything but the blood of Jesus for my salvation.

It does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Now, the fact that the Lord is not going to take away your sins against your will, means that repentance is required in order for the blood to be applied in such a fashion as to take away your sins. God is not going to do that work magically and against your will. He requires your permission. Because Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman.

Now, when Jesus says to many people, Depart from me into everlasting fire, for I never knew you; it will be to those who are workers of iniquity (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

It is workers of iniquity who will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42).

And therefore, your contention that the only way to enter into the kingdom is to not repent, is not only unfounded in holy scripture, it is a perversion of everything righteous.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Again, I am not trusting in anything but the blood of Jesus for my salvation.

It does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Now, the fact that the Lord is not going to take away your sins against your will, means that repentance is required in order for the blood to be applied in such a fashion as to take away your sins. God is not going to do that work magically and against your will. He requires your permission. Because Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman.

Now, when Jesus says to many people, Depart from me into everlasting fire, for I never knew you; it will be to those who are workers of iniquity (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

It is workers of iniquity who will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42).

And therefore, your contention that the only way to enter into the kingdom is to not repent, is not only unfounded in holy scripture, it is a perversion of everything righteous.

Same Ol’
Tripe.....”Jesus Saves....BUT !” ......Just another variation of Circumcision or whatever....another False, Perverted “Gospel” That ain’t the True Gospel.....
It’s like Jesus paid a Trillion Dollars for your Ransom with His Precious Blood, But you gotta chip in your measly nickel.....you just gotta get a “ Piece “ Of That Glory that belongs 100% to Him, don’t you? Good luck with that .God won’t have it.
My Doctrine maintains that Jesus and His Precious Shed Blood gets ALL of the Glory......poor ol’ BB gets NONE......I am betting that is just the Way God wants it.....he’s STILL a “ Jealous God”....He deserves to be....

 

[BarneyFife]

God is not going to do that work magically and against your will. He requires your permission. Because Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman.

I like to think that God is the Author and Greatest Champion of Religious Liberty.

 

[BarneyFife]

Same Ol’
Tripe.....”Jesus Saves....BUT !” ......Just another variation of Circumcision or whatever....another False, Perverted “Gospel” That ain’t the True Gospel.....
It’s like Jesus paid a Trillion Dollars for your Ransom with His Precious Blood, But you gotta chip in your measly nickel.....you just gotta get a “ Piece “ Of That Glory that belongs 100% to Him, don’t you? Good luck with that .God won’t have it.
My Doctrine maintains that Jesus and His Precious Shed Blood gets ALL of the Glory......poor ol’ BB gets NONE......I am betting that is just the Way God wants it.....he’s STILL a “ Jealous God”....He deserves to be....

How does agreement = Glory?

 

[justbyfaith]

Same Ol’
Tripe.....”Jesus Saves....BUT !” ......Just another variation of Circumcision or whatever....another False, Perverted “Gospel” That ain’t the True Gospel.....
It’s like Jesus paid a Trillion Dollars for your Ransom with His Precious Blood, But you gotta chip in your measly nickel.....you just gotta get a “ Piece “ Of That Glory that belongs 100% to Him, don’t you? Good luck with that .God won’t have it.
My Doctrine maintains that Jesus and His Precious Shed Blood gets ALL of the Glory......poor ol’ BB gets NONE......I am betting that is just the Way God wants it.....he’s STILL a “ Jealous God”....He deserves to be....

There is no BUT in my statement that Jesus saves.

The question that you need to ask is, "what does Jesus save you from?"

The answer is in Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14.

If you said, "my sins", go to the head of the class...

To say that Jesus paid the penalty without dealing with the sins themselves is a "FALSE and PERVERTED" gospel.

It implies that heaven will not be heavenly because sin will be there.

For, I believe that God gives us every chance to relinquish our sins to the Cross in this lifetime; and when we stand before the judgment seat of God it will be too late to change your mind.

You have been warned, @Blood Bought 1953...

So, if you continue to reject the truth, your blood will be on your own head.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

How does agreement = Glory?

Could you please elaborate ? You don’t make any sense to me....thanks..

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So, if you continue to reject the truth, your blood will be on your own head.

I will DO what I want....I will REJECT whatever I Want .....I will Sin up a Storm if I choose to.....who cares? I put my Faith in “ Lucky Repentance” ......if I am “ Lucky” enough to stand before God with a Sparkling Clean Repentance Slate ( having had the SUPER MEMORY to remember ALL of my sends and act sorry for them before I die) I will be Fit For Heaven ! Who cares about all of this “ Shed Blood” stuff? We are going to do things “ MY” Way!
I Sinned and “ got away with it”.....thanks to “ Lucky Repentance”.....A Gamble well worth taking!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You have been warned, @Blood Bought 1953...

Your “ warning” to me is worth exactly what I paid for it....Nothing!

Now HERE is a Warning for YOU — Gal1:8— if you preach a gospel that differs from the one that Paul presented in 1 cor15:1-4 you are “ ACCURSED”—— damned by God....

The word “ repentance “ is not to be found in Galatians.....the Book that is “ all about” the Gospel That Saves If simply Believed , does not contain that word— no,not even once

The Book we send Newbies to , the Gospel Of John , to get their Salvation does not contain the word “ repentance” either......a Wise man would detect a trend....

Repentance, every time that Word is used in conjunction with Salvation , means “ to change your mind” .....NOT “Repent Of Sins” .......if you do not Believe in Jesus and His Gospel That Saves , and you Change your mind about that —- you start to Trust in Jesus and the Gospel That you previously did not believe in.....you have undergone the “ repentance “ that God demands for Salvation...
Once a man is saved, Repenting from sins is a daily occurrence ...it occurs naturally .....it didn't Save you ( Believing the Gospel did that) and it won’t KEEP you Saved—— only Faith in the Shed Blood Plus Nothing does that.....

 

[ChristisGod]

What I have said on the subject matter stands and is sound doctrine concerning the issue.

The Father is not the Son not the Son the Father. Its the heresy the early ECF's condemned from Sabellius the heretic in the 200's. You espouse 2 major non trinitarian heresies sabellianism/modalism and kenosis. This places you outside of the Christian Faith by all the Creeds and Orthodoxy.

Modalism, or Sabellianism, is inadequate view of the nature of God. The doctrine arises from a bishop in the early church named Sabellius. Modalism teaches that only one God exists and that the three persons listed in the Bible, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are modes or manifestations of the one God. As one human being may be a father, son, and husband at the same time, yet the person is only one individual, so it is true with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. There are no distinct persons within the nature of God from the modalistic point of view. It is Unitarian in that it accepts only one Person in the Godhead

Attempts To Preserve Unity
Originally the intent of Modalism was to preserve monotheism (that is the belief in the existence of the unity of the one God) while still holding to the divinity of Christ. But the Trinity of Modalism is a Trinity of manifestation. This means that the three personalities are expressions of the one person of God. The Trinity of the Bible is a Trinity of being which means the three persons are distinct persons within the nature of the one God.

God Is A Changing God
Modalism also undermines the Biblical teaching that God never changes for it portrays a God who changes His modes. The Bible pictures God as unchanging:

For I am the Lord, I do not change (Malachi 3:6).

Furthermore, Modalism takes away from the mediatorial work of Christ. The Bible teaches that Jesus is a mediator between God and humanity.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

The Modalistic view of God, that the Father and Son are the same person, would have God mediating between Himself. This is not biblical or logical.

The Father And Son Are Distinct
Modalism does not fit the facts The Bible says the Father loves the Son,

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand (John 3:35).

Jesus said.

For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these (John 5:20).

This does not mean the Father loves Himself.

Scripture says the Father sent the Son.

Jesus therefore said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent me, I also send you" (John 20:21).

He did not send Himself. The Bible also says the Son returned to the Father.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God'" (John 20:17).

The Son did not return to Himself.

The Father Sent The Holy Spirit
The Bible says Father sends the Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you (John 14:26).

Again, He is not sending Himself.

Modalism Is Inconsistent And Confusing
If the Father, Son, and Spirit are the only God under three different names or modes, then the New Testament would be totally inconsistent and confusing. For example, in the prayer of Jesus Christ, recorded in John 17, He is addressing His Father. According to Modalism He is praying to Himself. Such an idea is absurd.

Summary
Modalism or Sabellianism is a non-biblical way of understanding the nature of God. It is one of the heresies under the heading of Unitarianism. Modalism says that there is one God who manifests Himself in three different modes. God sometimes manifests himself as the Father, at other times as the Son, and still on other occasions as the Holy Spirit. The God of Modalism is a changing God. This concept of God is opposed to what the Bible teaches. First, the Bible says that God exists in three distinct Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He is not merely one Person as the Unitarians believe. In addition, the God of the Bible does not change - his nature stays forever the same. Finally the Bible gives examples of Jesus praying to the Father. According to Modalism he would be praying to himself. This is a ridiculous idea. Consequently the God of Modalism is not the God of Scripture.donstewart

hope this helps !!!

 

[justbyfaith]

You espouse 2 major non trinitarian heresies sabellianism/modalism and kenosis. This places you outside of the Christian Faith by all the Creeds and Orthodoxy.

I will address in this post your unfounded accusation that I believe in sabellianism/modalism; because I have addressed the other accusation elsewhere.

Modalism teaches that only one God exists and that the three persons listed in the Bible, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are modes or manifestations of the one God.

I do not believe in modes of the Trinity.

There are no distinct persons within the nature of God from the modalistic point of view.

This is the proof that your accusation is unfounded. For I believe that there are three distinct Persons within the Godhead.

Modalism also undermines the Biblical teaching that God never changes for it portrays a God who changes His modes. The Bible pictures God as unchanging:

For I am the Lord, I do not change (Malachi 3:6).

Did the Lord change when He became sin for us in order that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21)?

Furthermore, Modalism takes away from the mediatorial work of Christ. The Bible teaches that Jesus is a mediator between God and humanity.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

The Modalistic view of God, that the Father and Son are the same person, would have God mediating between Himself. This is not biblical or logical.

It is very logical that God would become a Man in order to perform that mediatorial work.

The Son is distinct from the Father. He is come in finite human flesh; while the Father is an Omnipresent Spirit who inhabiteth eternity. As being both God and man, Jesus is able to mediate between the Father, who is not a man, and men.

When I say that Jesus is the Father it is according to Isaiah 9:6; and in it I am saying that it is the same Spirit who dwells in Jesus Christ as the Spirit who inhabits eternity as an Omnipresent Spirit.

The Father And Son Are Distinct
Modalism does not fit the facts The Bible says the Father loves the Son,

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand (John 3:35).

Jesus said.

For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these (John 5:20).

This does not mean the Father loves Himself.

Yes, the Father and the Son are distinct.

The Son is a different Person from the Father; while the Spirit who dwells in Jesus Christ is the same Spirit as the Father.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh; the Father is an Omnipresent Spirit who inhabits eternity.

Scripture says the Father sent the Son.

Jesus therefore said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent me, I also send you" (John 20:21).

He did not send Himself.

See Hebrews 10:5; compare to Romans 1:3 (kjv).

The Bible also says the Son returned to the Father.

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God'" (John 20:17).

The Son did not return to Himself.

The Son is distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh.

If the Father, Son, and Spirit are the only God under three different names or modes,

I do not believe in modes of the Trinity.

Modalism Is Inconsistent And Confusing
If the Father, Son, and Spirit are the only God under three different names or modes, then the New Testament would be totally inconsistent and confusing. For example, in the prayer of Jesus Christ, recorded in John 17, He is addressing His Father. According to Modalism He is praying to Himself. Such an idea is absurd.

See post #5 of True Trinity.

First, the Bible says that God exists in three distinct Persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I believe in three distinct Persons in the Godhead.

Finally the Bible gives examples of Jesus praying to the Father. According to Modalism he would be praying to himself.

See post #5 of True Trinity.

 

[justbyfaith]

The word “ repentance “ is not to be found in Galatians.....the Book that is “ all about” the Gospel That Saves If simply Believed , does not contain that word— no,not even once

The concept is there however...whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap...those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

The Book we send Newbies to , the Gospel Of John , to get their Salvation does not contain the word “ repentance” either......a Wise man would detect a trend....

The concept is also found in John...you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free (from sin).

Repentance, every time that Word is used in conjunction with Salvation , means “ to change your mind” .....NOT “Repent Of Sins”

The concept of turning away from sins (for forgiveness) is definitely found in the Bible (Ezekiel 33:19, 2 Chronicles 7:14)...I'm surprised that you are unaware of the 2nd of these scriptures...it is a highly famous passage.

When John the Baptist preached repentance in the Bible, he was most definitely telling the people to turn away from their sins (see Luke 3:10-14). He even told them practical ways to do it.

To "repent" most definitely means to make a 180-degree turn away from the direction that you were walking in before...if you were walking in the direction of sin, death, and hell before, it means turning away from that direction towards righteousness, life, and heaven.

This is not only common sense; it is the biblical understanding of repentance (see Ezekiel 33:19, 2 Chronicles 7:14).

 

[ChristisGod]

I will address in this post your unfounded accusation that I believe in sabellianism/modalism; because I have addressed the other accusation elsewhere.



I do not believe in modes of the Trinity.



This is the proof that your accusation is unfounded. For I believe that there are three distinct Persons within the Godhead.



Did the Lord change when He became sin for us in order that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21)?



It is very logical that God would become a Man in order to perform that mediatorial work.

The Son is distinct from the Father. He is come in finite human flesh; while the Father is an Omnipresent Spirit who inhabiteth eternity. As being both God and man, Jesus is able to mediate between the Father, who is not a man, and men.

When I say that Jesus is the Father it is according to Isaiah 9:6; and in it I am saying that it is the same Spirit who dwells in Jesus Christ as the Spirit who inhabits eternity as an Omnipresent Spirit.



Yes, the Father and the Son are distinct.

The Son is a different Person from the Father; while the Spirit who dwells in Jesus Christ is the same Spirit as the Father.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh; the Father is an Omnipresent Spirit who inhabits eternity.



See Hebrews 10:5; compare to Romans 1:3.



The Son is distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh.



I do not believe in modes of the Trinity.



See post #5 of True Trinity.



I believe in three distinct Persons in the Godhead.



See post #5 of True Trinity.

You are hiding your belief where you have said that the Father is the Son.

Why are you hiding it ?

 

[justbyfaith]

You are hiding your belief where you have said that the Father is the Son.

Why are you hiding it ?

I have never said that the Father is the Son.

I have said that the Son is the Father.

This is true because:

The same Spirit who inhabits eternity as an Omnipresent Spirit (the Father) is the Spirit who dwells on the inside of Jesus Christ (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11), (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4). The latter of these passage combinations shows that if Jesus is God, He is the same Spirit as the Father. Do you want to make an answer to that particular thing?

The Father is not the Son because:

He is not come in human flesh as the 1st Person of the Trinity.

 

[ChristisGod]

I have never said that the Father is the Son.

I have said that the Son is the Father.

This is true because:

The same Spirit who inhabits eternity as an Omnipresent Spirit (the Father) is the Spirit who dwells on the inside of Jesus Christ (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11), (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4). The latter of these passage combinations shows that if Jesus is God, He is the same Spirit as the Father. Do you want to make an answer to that particular thing?

same difference and you have just made the logical fallacy known as a distinction without a difference.

I thought you claimed to have gone to seminary ?

Yet you do not understand the fallacious arguments you make. Did you ever a class on how to debate in high-school or college ?

 

[justbyfaith]

same difference and you have just made the logical fallacy known as a distinction without a difference.

edited post #675 (Those who deny Eternal Security)

 

[justbyfaith]

same difference and you have just made the logical fallacy known as a distinction without a difference.

I take it you don't have an answer for John 4:24 as it is coupled with Ephesians 4:4.

You should be aware that the Holy Ghost teaches us when we compare spiritual thing with spiritual (scripture to scripture)...1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

 

[ChristisGod]

edited post #675 (Those who deny Eternal Security)

same answer as nothing has changed in your edited version.

same difference and you have just made the logical fallacy known as a distinction without a difference.

I thought you claimed to have gone to seminary ?

Yet you do not understand the fallacious arguments you make. Did you ever a class on how to debate in high-school or college ?

 

[ChristisGod]

quit blaming God or the Holy Spirit for your errors and hiding behind it.

I take it you don't have an answer for John 4:24 as it is coupled with Ephesians 4:4.

You should be aware that the Holy ghost teaches us when we compare spiritual thing with spiritual (scripture to scripture)...1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

quit blaming God or the Holy Spirit for your errors and hiding behind it. its what every cult leader in history does jbf.