Why do you reject authority?

[David H.]

Hi,

The Holy Ghost has led you where??? To whom???? What YOU believe to be true?

My OP still stands. Since the time of Moses thru the Apostles God has ordained certain men to lead his people. None of the passages you quoted negates that fact.

Who had authority To teach the Truth AFTER the last Apostles died? No one??

Curious Mary

The Holy Ghost leads all who believe to the truth of the Word of God, Men will lead you nowhere, i Know because I have been led astray by men. " Ever learning but never arriving at the truth" as Paul states. (2 Timothy 3:7) I set in my Heart to begin with What Paul stated, to "know nothing save Christ and Him Crucified" and this was the start of my Journey to Knowing Jesus and having a relationship with Him, all the teachings of men were laid aside as the Holy Ghost taught me. That is Who has the authority to teach after the Apostles died. The Authorities of the church deny this relationship with Christ, they say you cannot have this sort of relationship apart from the One church, which is a lie, a Bold faced Lie to maintain control power and wealth as the scripture from 2 Peter 5 speaks of, "for filthy lucre's sake". It is this that the leaders of the churches fear the most. It is time for you to move from Christendom to Christianity, One is a relationship with a church the other is a relationship with Christ Jesus, He is the head of the body, He is the mediator between God and Man, He is our all in all.

Thanks DH,

Not sure what this has to do with Church authority but thank you for your time.

Mary

It is to show you the Way that the Apostles themselves preached, which opposes the way the churches of men preach, It is what you are missing out on. The Apostles had authority in that they were taught and gifted by the holy Ghost, All of Us who are in Christ can also be as they were, and we are all brethren, exactly as Jesus taught. take the time to Read Jesus' prayer in the upper room in John 17 and you will see this.

God Bless.

 

[Philip James]

Why would you join a church that does.

 

[Paul Christensen]

PC,

Read my original post and you should CLEARLY see that there are some that “has authority over others”. Your opinion does not negate what I wrote and what scripture CLEARLY says!!!!!

Do you not believe that the Apostles had authority over all other Christians that were alive at the time????

Curious Mary

Their authority came through respect and it was only valid when they pointed people to Christ. Even Jesus said that He was not present in His own name, but did what the Father told Him to do. Anyone asserting a military style of authority such as: "You will obey me because I said so" is asserting their own authority which carries no weight for genuine believers. True spiritual authority is no like a sheepdog barking at and driving the sheep. It is the voice of the Shepherd which is recognised by those who are His and they follow Him. True believers will follow a true shepherd who represents Christ to them. Such a shepherd never has to "bark" at the sheep because if he is not a true shepherd the "sheep" will not follow him. Such shepherds cause church members to telephone to see who is preaching on Sunday, and if it is one of the "authority" shepherds, they won't come to the service; and if a "barker" pastor is appointed, good members will leave the church and go to one down the road that has a Christ-centred pastor whose voice in the Spirit they recognise and one they will follow.

 

[mjrhealth]

So this means that you don't belong to any church at all. If that is so, then it's just "God and me", and that means that if any gifting you have is pointless because no one outside the "God and me" bubble is being blessed.

No actually it me Jesus , God the Holy Spirit all the Angels of heaven and those in His Church, we are never alone.

Luk 10:38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
Luk 10:42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

I know wherw i would rather be, but religion will keep men in bondage and busy. No time for Jesus.

 

[mjrhealth]

Already being invited, but thanks anyway.

 

[David H.]

Seems to me what you're actually trying to say is that when it comes to believers who speak of another gospel or live a life in which a Christian brother or sister is living a life of immortality, the scriptures don't say to not associate with such people, but the scriptures teach that those who are baptized members of the congregation and begin living a immoral life or speaking of another gospel they didn't learn in the church and they are subverting the faith of other baptized members, are not to be associated with or disassociated, what is called disfellowshiping. You think do you, that those who are baptized members of the church should be allowed to subvert the faith of your fellow Christians. You think that as a Christian that when you see those who are baptized members of the church and they are speaking of another gospel and subverting the faith of other baptized members of the church that you should encourage fellow Christians to listen to these who are teaching another gospel to fellowship with them as though they're find upstanding Christians, even though they're subverting the faith of fellow Christians in the church.

Are You a Jehovah's witness? This has nothing to do with disfellowship for living immorally, But outright rejection for disagreeing with the stated doctrine of the leadership of the Watchtower Society. Here is a Link that shows this, Please take the time to read this, as this person was an elder in the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I was a Jehovah's Witness Elder - David Reed (adam.com.au)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Name the scriptural subject, and I will teach you sola scriptura.

Okay - here's the Scriptural subject:
Sola Scriptura.

Show me where the Bible teaches this fallacy.

 

[BreadOfLife]

the subject matter is the authority of your church. I will let others deduce how they receive your reply here!

Why do you think YOUR sect has Authority over the Church that goes all the way back to the Apostles?
That's the real question.

 

[BarneyFife]

I never teach you how to read your Bible. That is commentary.

No, it is not.

commentary
[ kom-uhn-ter-ee ]
SEE SYNONYMS FOR commentary ON THESAURUS.COM
noun, plural com·men·tar·ies.

1. a series of comments, explanations, or annotations: a commentary on the Bible; news followed by a commentary.
2. an explanatory essay or treatise: a commentary on a play; Blackstone's commentaries on law.
3. anything serving to illustrate a point, prompt a realization, or exemplify, especially in the case of something unfortunate: The dropout rate is a sad commentary on our school system.
4. Usually commentaries. records of facts or events: Commentaries written by Roman lawyers give us information on how their courts functioned.

 

[BarneyFife]

Thanks B5,

Jesus said to the Apostles In that passage.....and the Apostles only....If they reject you they reject me.

Your theory is that if I go “door-to-door” and evangelize baptism saves you, which is a Catholic teaching, and you go door to door evangelizing baptism doesn’t save you...which is opposite of Catholic teaching...AND they reject both our teaching and come up with their own teaching..... then that means they have rejected Jesus????

Mary

I'm not suggesting theories at all. You have quite an imagination.

 

[quietthinker]

Why do you think YOUR sect has Authority over the Church that goes all the way back to the Apostles?
That's the real question.

my sect??

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Are You a Jehovah's witness? This has nothing to do with disfellowship for living immorally, But outright rejection for disagreeing with the stated doctrine of the leadership of the Watchtower Society. Here is a Link that shows this, Please take the time to read this, as this person was an elder in the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I was a Jehovah's Witness Elder - David Reed (adam.com.au)

No thank you, I'll not listen to one person's side of a problem. Also I'll not show such a unloving attitude as that my motivation is that I'm believing my brother and sisters are doing something wrong as though I don't trust my brother's. I'll wait on Jehovah to straighten anything out that needs straighten out and not rely on an apostate.

 

[Marymog]

I'm not suggesting theories at all. You have quite an imagination.

Thank you B5!!

If what you are suggesting is not a theory then it must be the Truth?

YOUR Truth (not a theory) is that Luke 10:16 "is about door-to-door evangelism--not ecclesiastical authority." Sooooo The Truth is anyone that rejects you as you go door to door evangelizing they are also rejecting the One who sent you..... which is Jesus. And you accuse me of having an imagination.....

Imagine this: I go door to door and preach Catholic Truth. They accept that Truth. You go door to door and preach your Truth. They reject your Truth. Since they accepted me and my Truth that means they accepted Jesus. But yet they rejected Jesus when they rejected you and your Truth. (or vice a versa)

Hmmmmm.....your door to door theory needs some work.

Mary

 

[kcnalp]

No thank you, I'll not listen to one person's side of a problem. Also I'll not show such a unloving attitude as that my motivation is that I'm believing my brother and sisters are doing something wrong as though I don't trust my brother's. I'll wait on Jehovah to straighten anything out that needs straighten out and not rely on an apostate.

Are you serious? You know JW's take Kingdom Hall's biased opinions over all else!

 

[Marymog]

Their authority came through respect and it was only valid when they pointed people to Christ. Even Jesus said that He was not present in His own name, but did what the Father told Him to do. Anyone asserting a military style of authority such as: "You will obey me because I said so" is asserting their own authority which carries no weight for genuine believers. True spiritual authority is no like a sheepdog barking at and driving the sheep. It is the voice of the Shepherd which is recognised by those who are His and they follow Him. True believers will follow a true shepherd who represents Christ to them. Such a shepherd never has to "bark" at the sheep because if he is not a true shepherd the "sheep" will not follow him. Such shepherds cause church members to telephone to see who is preaching on Sunday, and if it is one of the "authority" shepherds, they won't come to the service; and if a "barker" pastor is appointed, good members will leave the church and go to one down the road that has a Christ-centred pastor whose voice in the Spirit they recognise and one they will follow.

Ummmmm....isn't that what the Apostles did????

 

[Marymog]

The Holy Ghost leads all who believe to the truth of the Word of God, Men will lead you nowhere, i Know because I have been led astray by men. "

Thanks DH,

For 2,000 years there have been many men and women who "believe to the truth of the Word of God" that feel like they were led by the Holy Ghost. Now we have thousands of denominations and hundreds of competing "truths" all of which came by revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Not every man, woman, denomination, or Joes bible church on Main Street was guided by the Holy Spirit into teaching the Truth when they all teach different truths. You say that "Men will lead you nowhere". Are you not a man??? Are you leading yourself into the truth or is someone leading you??? One way or the other you have a man leading you......

Your theory needs a little bit of work...

 

[Waiting on him]

Hi WOH,

Did the 1st Century Christians have 12 men to tell them what to think AND do?? The men at the Council of Jerusalem (which was made up of men) decided that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep the fasts, and other specific rituals, including the rules concerning Circumsission of males. Soooo it seems your theory is negated by Scripture.

Jesus said obey those that sit on Moses seat, just don’t do what they do. Jesus seems to preach different than what you believe? How do you justify your theory?

Curious Mary

Who or what you’re following doesn’t stack up against the Apostles of Christ, and I hope you’re sitting down when you read this last part. Not every thing that Jesus said to Jews is referring to me.

 

[Waiting on him]

@Marymog, what makes you think the RCC is sitting in Moses seat?

I agree with your assessment though.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Thank you B5!!

If what you are suggesting is not a theory then it must be the Truth?

YOUR Truth (not a theory) is that Luke 10:16 "is about door-to-door evangelism--not ecclesiastical authority." Sooooo The Truth is anyone that rejects you as you go door to door evangelizing they are also rejecting the One who sent you..... which is Jesus. And you accuse me of having an imagination.....

Imagine this: I go door to door and preach Catholic Truth. They accept that Truth. You go door to door and preach your Truth. They reject your Truth. Since they accepted me and my Truth that means they accepted Jesus. But yet they rejected Jesus when they rejected you and your Truth. (or vice a versa)

Hmmmmm.....your door to door theory needs some work.

Mary

I know I don't know everyone in the world and what they're doing but the only people I have seen go door to door preaching about the good news of God's kingdom are JW. What I'm saying is that I've never seen a Catholic go door to door preaching about the good news of God's kingdom.

 

[amadeus]

PC,

Read my original post and you should CLEARLY see that there are some that “has authority over others”. Your opinion does not negate what I wrote and what scripture CLEARLY says!!!!!

Do you not believe that the Apostles had authority over all other Christians that were alive at the time????

Curious Mary

God gave each of us authority over ourselves [me over me, you over you, etc.] as I understand what I read in Genesis. Adam and Eve took that authority and misused it. Most [all but Jesus] people since then until now it seems to me have done the same. What God wants from each of us is to give back the authority to Him while we, each of us, still has any of our allotted time left to do so. Keeping our own authority leaves us in the death. Jesus brought Life for us, but we must turn over our reins to Him.

Do men really have authority over other men? Well God has given apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to help perfect us before God [Eph 4:11-13]. To what extent should we subject ourselves to those so given? How may a person recognize someone who is one of those given gifts of God [ministers] and then determine when to submit himself to one of them?