What Does Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit Actually Mean?

[TheslightestID]

What do you think counts as blasphemy? Can a true Christian curse the Spirit in his heart? I don't see how.

Of course they can...there is just no reason why they cannot, unless we choose to belive some who decided they didnt like that fact so thy invented there own version of the scripture.

Why would you not be able to see how a Christian cannot curse the spirit, or otherwise break Jesus's rule?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

What do you think counts as blasphemy? Can a true Christian curse the Spirit in his heart? I don't see how.

To someone who isn't a True Christian, what you said will be foolishness. :)

But . . . you know what you're talking about (likely from experience).

 

[Renniks]

Of course they can...there is just no reason why they cannot, unless we choose to belive some who decided they didnt like that fact so thy invented there own version of the scripture.

Why would you not be able to see how a Christian cannot curse the spirit, or otherwise break Jesus's rule?

Because every true Christian possesses the Holy Spirit. Jesus said you can speak against him and be forgiven, but not if one speaks against the Spirit. Why? In very next verse he says this:
"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit."

The tree is who? Us. Can we curse the One who owns us? You ever notice that some Christians do use God's name in vain and they remain saved? But to speak blasphemy against the Spirit one has to, in essence, order the Spirit to depart. We don't just know about the Spirit, he dwells in us. If we deny him, he has to leave.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

If God puts a new Heart and a new Spirit within a person, with the express purpose of obeying, it will be impossible for a True Child of God to commit the B-word.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]."

Ezekiel says the exact same thing in Eze chapter 11. God isn't making a request; nor is God even commanding these things. More than that . . . God is willing Himself upon those of whom He is referring to. Likely, those people would be the ones chosen before the creation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4-5 NIV - "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will . . ."

And those whom the Father gave to Christ, He shall not lose one of them. Pretty simple stuff.

John 6:39 NIV - "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

 

[Renniks]

If God puts a new Heart and a new Spirit within a person, with the express purpose of obeying, it will be impossible for a True Child of God to commit the B-word.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]."

Ezekiel says the exact same thing in Eze chapter 11. God isn't making a request; nor is God even commanding these things. More than that . . . God is willing Himself upon those of whom He is referring to. Likely, those people would be the ones chosen before the creation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4-5 NIV - "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will . . ."

And those whom the Father gave to Christ, He shall not lose one of them. Pretty simple stuff.

John 6:39 NIV - "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

I don't look at this from an eternal security or Calvinist view. This blasphemy against the spirit is a final rejection of His leading whether it is committed by a former Christian or someone who was never redeemed, IMO.

 

[TheslightestID]

Jesus said you can speak against him and be forgiven, but not if one speaks against the Spirit.

Exactly, you said it yourself, you cannot be forgiven if you speak against/blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

So, we agree, right?

 

[TheslightestID]

But to speak blasphemy against the Spirit one has to, in essence, order the Spirit to depart.

Will you please show me the scripture that backs that claim up? Otherwise I will have to assume you just made it up.

Wonder what the penalty is for doing ones best to change the word of God just because we don't like what it says?

 

[farouk]

If God puts a new Heart and a new Spirit within a person, with the express purpose of obeying, it will be impossible for a True Child of God to commit the B-word.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]."

Ezekiel says the exact same thing in Eze chapter 11. God isn't making a request; nor is God even commanding these things. More than that . . . God is willing Himself upon those of whom He is referring to. Likely, those people would be the ones chosen before the creation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4-5 NIV - "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will . . ."

And those whom the Father gave to Christ, He shall not lose one of them. Pretty simple stuff.

John 6:39 NIV - "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

@2nd Timothy Group John's First Epistle also has a lot about attainable assurance for the believer, which is a long way from the OP question.

 

[justbyfaith]

Since the one who hears Jesus' word and believes on Him who sent Him has passed from death unto everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation (John 5:24), I would say that it is impossible for someone who fulfills this condition to commit the unpardonable sin.

Also, if anyone comes to Jesus, He will in no wise cast them out (John 6:37).

So the sure way to prove that you haven't committed the unpardonable sin might be to come to Jesus; because if anyone had committed it, how would Jesus receive them? For they cannot be forgiven. But if you can come to Jesus, you can be forgiven; He will in no wise cast you out if you come to Him.

Therefore, I would say that everyone who has committed the unpardonable sin, it must be true of them that they have no desire to come to the Lord; and that even if you held them over a burning fire they would rather enter into that fire than come to Jesus for salvation and forgiveness.

I know that I have run across people like that.

 

[TheslightestID]

Since the one who hears Jesus' word and believes on Him who sent Him has passed from death unto everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation (John 5:24), I would say that it is impossible for someone who fulfills this condition to commit the unpardonable sin.

Also, if anyone comes to Jesus, He will in no wise cast them out (John 6:37).

So the sure way to prove that you haven't committed the unpardonable sin might be to come to Jesus; because if anyone had committed it, how would Jesus receive them? For they cannot be forgiven. But if you can come to Jesus, you can be forgiven; He will in no wise cast you out if you come to Him.

Therefore, I would say that everyone who has committed the unpardonable sin, it must be true of them that they have no desire to come to the Lord; and that even if you held them over a burning fire they would rather enter into that fire than come to Jesus for salvation and forgiveness.

I know that I have run across people like that.

Was Jesus wrong when he said those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven?

 

[Renniks]

Will you please show me the scripture that backs that claim up? Otherwise I will have to assume you just made it up.

Wonder what the penalty is for doing ones best to change the word of God just because we don't like what it says?

1What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces of the world. 4But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. 6Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” 7So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

Will you please show me the scripture that backs that claim up? Otherwise I will have to assume you just made it up.

Wonder what the penalty is for doing ones best to change the word of God just because we don't like what it says?

At this point I don't even know what you're arguing for or against. Show me where I changed God's word? You don't see that we can not simultaneously be filled with the Spirit and blaspheme the Spirit?

In Acts 7:51, Stephen to the Pharisees, "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.” In a nutshell, the unpardonable sin is a sin that a person doesn’t want to give up, confess, or even ask forgiveness for and additionally doesn’t want to hear any more about it from the Holy Spirit. If a person still desires forgiveness and confesses their sins, any sin will be forgiven and blotted out. If he finally and totally rejects the Spirit once and for all, he can't be forgiven because he doesn't want to be forgiven.
The Scribes to who Jesus was speaking were crediting the Spirit's work to Satan. I maintain that it's impossible for a believer to do that. The reason they could not be forgiven is because they were deliberately rejecting the Spirit of God. That's how hard their hearts were.
God can't forgive the one who refuses to hear the Spirit. So, essentially, the sin of blaspheming the Spirit and the sin of unbelief are the same.

 

[justbyfaith]

Was Jesus wrong when he said those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven?

Of course not.

But I'm saying that only unbelievers have the ability to commit that sin.

Read my post again.

What Does Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit Actually Mean?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Of course not.

But I'm saying that only unbelievers have the ability to commit that sin.

Read my post again.

What Does Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit Actually Mean?

It's just so simple, isn't it? Anyone who is controlled by the Holy Spirit would never deface the Holy Spirit. They're controlled by the Holy Spirit! However, if a person is controlled by the Devil . . . well . . . THAT person would surely be capable of the B-word.

Having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, I know that I would NEVER turn against my God. My life cannot possibly be much worse right now, yet I have more Joy of the Lord than I have ever had! This is what I have been waiting for . . . to be tested, and proven! Why would I turn on God now and blasphemy His Holy Spirit? Ridiculous. :)

 

[TheslightestID]

1What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces of the world. 4But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. 6Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” 7So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

At this point I don't even know what you're arguing for or against. Show me where I changed God's word? You don't see that we can not simultaneously be filled with the Spirit and blaspheme the Spirit?

In Acts 7:51, Stephen to the Pharisees, "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.” In a nutshell, the unpardonable sin is a sin that a person doesn’t want to give up, confess, or even ask forgiveness for and additionally doesn’t want to hear any more about it from the Holy Spirit. If a person still desires forgiveness and confesses their sins, any sin will be forgiven and blotted out. If he finally and totally rejects the Spirit once and for all, he can't be forgiven because he doesn't want to be forgiven.
The Scribes to who Jesus was speaking were crediting the Spirit's work to Satan. I maintain that it's impossible for a believer to do that. The reason they could not be forgiven is because they were deliberately rejecting the Spirit of God. That's how hard their hearts were.
God can't forgive the one who refuses to hear the Spirit. So, essentially, the sin of blaspheming the Spirit and the sin of unbelief are the same.

Then you cannot back up the comment.

You changed the scripture in that you say Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is something other than what Christ says it is.

 

[TheslightestID]

Of course not.

But I'm saying that only unbelievers have the ability to commit that sin.

Read my post again.

What Does Blasphemy of The Holy Spirit Actually Mean?

Where does the bible say only unbelievers can commit that sin? I have read your posts and nothing convinced me so please explain using scripture.

See? Jesus made no mention of your present claim.

 

[justbyfaith]

Where does the bible say only unbelievers can commit that sin? I have read your posts and nothing convinced me so please explain using scripture.

See? Jesus made no mention of your present claim.

Do you believe what it says in John 5:24, that those who hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him have passed from death unto everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation?

It is very cut-and-dried to me, that those who are truly saved cannot lose their salvation.

If someone who was saved committed the unpardonable sin, they would lose their salvation.

Therefore, the truly saved cannot commit the unpardonable sin.

 

[TheslightestID]

QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 916095, member: 7886"]It is very cut-and-dried to me, that those who are truly saved cannot lose their salvation.[/QUOTE]

Thing is, what Christ said would happen about them not being forgiven, is also a very cut and dried fact, so now we have a delemma, and there are only two ways out of it, and I prefer the last of the two that follow.

Do you believe what it says in John 5:24, that those who hear Jesus' words and believe on Him who sent Him have passed from death unto everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation?

They could lose their salvation due to the exception Jesus made when he said they would not be forgiven. You do understand there are exceptions to even rules of God, as in the theif on the cross or death bed confessions who are not able to do their works because they were going to die soon, yet they are still saved. But I am more inclined to believe the following is accurate when it come to being sent to hell for commiting the unforgivable sin.

You may recall, Jesus never said anyone would go to hell for committing the unforgivabe sin. And yes I'm aware of the "unless all your sins be forgiven" rule, but I also noticed in all the lists of damnable sins, in the bible, the unforgivable sin is never once mentioned or even hinted at. There are definitely some sins that are damnable and some sins that are not, and it seems everyone just assumes the unforgivable sin is damnable, when the signs point to the probability it is not, as in it not being in the list of damnable sins throughout the bible, that I just mentioned. That is unless someone can prove to me the unforgivable sin is one of the damnable sins, and I don't think they can.

So had people used their heads, they may have found the answer is very simple, and it may very well be no one will ever be lost for committing the unforgivable sin, because it is not damnable. And what is really funny, the hot shots that tried to change what the scripture means so it was easier to take or was less scary, never really had to bother to change anything. Lol

 

[justbyfaith]

[~QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 916095, member: 7886"]It is very cut-and-dried to me, that those who are truly saved cannot lose their salvation.[~/QUOTE]

Thing is, what Christ said would happen about them not being forgiven, is also a very cut and dried fact, so now we have a delemma, and there are only two ways out of it, and I prefer the last of the two that follow.

They could lose their salvation due to the exception Jesus made when he said they would not be forgiven. You do understand there are exceptions to even rules of God, as in the theif on the cross or death bed confessions who are not able to do their works because they were going to die soon, yet they are still saved. But I am more inclined to believe the following is accurate when it come to being sent to hell for commiting the unforgivable sin.

You may recall, Jesus never said anyone would go to hell for committing the unforgivabe sin. And yes I'm aware of the "unless all your sins be forgiven" rule, but I also noticed in all the lists of damnable sins, in the bible, the unforgivable sin is never once mentioned or even hinted at. There are definitely some sins that are damnable and some sins that are not, and it seems everyone just assumes the unforgivable sin is damnable, when the signs point to the probability it is not, as in it not being in the list of damnable sins throughout the bible, that I just mentioned. That is unless someone can prove to me the unforgivable sin is one of the damnable sins, and I don't think they can.

So had people used their heads, they may have found the answer is very simple, and it may very well be no one will ever be lost for committing the unforgivable sin, because it is not damnable. And what is really funny, the hot shots that tried to change what the scripture means so it was easier to take or was less scary, never really had to bother to change anything. Lol

You defy common sense, friend.

Common sense would tell us that if a sin is not forgiven by the Lord, that the person who is not forgiven for their sin will be punished for it.

Since hell is everlasting punishment for sins (Matthew 25:46), a person who is not forgiven will go to hell.

If someone commits the unpardonable sin, they will not be forgiven.

It follows that if someone commits the unpardonable sin, they will be punished for it in hell. They cannot be forgiven and therefore will receive punishment.

And if someone has everlasting life, that life will never come to an end; otherwise the quality of the life is temporal rather than everlasting.

And if someone shall not come into condemnation, that is absolute terminology, they cannot come into condemnation and therefore cannot commit the unpardonable sin.

 

[TheslightestID]

You defy common sense, friend.

Common sense would tell us that if a sin is not forgiven by the Lord, that the person who is not forgiven for their sin will be punished for it.

Since hell is everlasting punishment for sins (Matthew 25:46), a person who is not forgiven will go to hell.

If someone commits the unpardonable sin, they will not be forgiven.

It follows that if someone commits the unpardonable sin, they will be punished for it in hell. They cannot be forgiven and therefore will receive punishment.

And if someone has everlasting life, that life will never come to an end; otherwise the quality of the life is temporal rather than everlasting.

And if someone shall not come into condemnation, that is absolute terminology, they cannot come into condemnation and therefore cannot commit the unpardonable sin.

I guess my post went right over your head. Lets try this, can you please show me where the bible states the unpardonsble sin is a damnable sin? Or are you saying all sin is damnable?

 

[justbyfaith]

I guess my post went right over your head. Lets try this, can you please show me where the bible states the unpardonable <fify> sin is a damnable sin? Or are you saying all sin is damnable?

How can the unpardonable sin not be damnable?

If it cannot be forgiven, how can anyone not be punished for it?

How would the unpardonable sin not be damnable if other types of sins are in fact damnable?

Other types of sins are forgivable, the unpardonable sin is not forgivable.

Again, it is only sins that are not forgiven that will place a person in the lake of fire.

The unpardonable sin qualifies as a sin that is not forgiven, wouldn't you think?