Who founded your church?

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marksman

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Apart from a couple of mistakes you made i.e Roman Catholic, Pope Gregory 1, Rome 590AD, and Congregatiional Robert Browne not The Wesleys, What is your point? If no man has authority to found a church why did Pope Gregory found the Catholic Church, when there was already one is existence founded by Jesus himself?
 

BreadOfLife

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Unless you happen to die with unconfessed sin. You have no idea whether you will really be saved, because maybe you missed confessing some sin you forgot about. Hope isn't the same as assurance.
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Good grief - you QUOTE the Bible a lot but you don't understand what it is saying.

Have you never read Jesus's rebuke of the Pharisees regarding the Holy Spirit?
Matt. 12:30-31

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

They were accusing JESUS - not the Holy Spirit - of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebul. They KNEW that Jesus was from God because of the things He did - but they rejected the Holy Spirit's enlightenment regarding who He was. The "unforgiveable sin" against the Holy spirit is NOT saying something "bad" about Him - but final impenitence.

Just because a Christian has not had the opportunity to confess a sin doesn't mean they are not penitent. And there are degrees of sin the the Bible speaks of - sin that causes death and sin that doesn't. Taking a pencil from the office is NOT asa grave a sin as adultery or murder. It's wrong - and it is sin - but u's not gravely sinful. This is why John speaks of the difference between sin that causes death (mortal) and other sins (venial):
1 John 5:16-17

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

As to the verses you pesented - NOBODY can snatch you out of His hand. However - because He endowed us with a Free Will, YOU can walk away from Him and the Bible gives us crystal clear warnings about this:
Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19.
 

BreadOfLife

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No you believe the catholic church and its fables, if you where in Christ you would not be so angry and aggresive and you wouldnt be promoting those web sites and you would have the truth because He is the truth and you would be free, but you dont want to be free
Ummmmm, I didn't promote "aggressivechristianity.net" - YOU did.

YOU
are the one who sent me there after posting some of their dosctrinal positions - remember?
It wouldn't surprise me if you changed your doctrinal positions, though . . .

Is your memory fading?
 

theefaith

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Apart from a couple of mistakes you made i.e Roman Catholic, Pope Gregory 1, Rome 590AD, and Congregatiional Robert Browne not The Wesleys, What is your point? If no man has authority to found a church why did Pope Gregory found the Catholic Church, when there was already one is existence founded by Jesus himself?


Matt 16:18 only christ builds the church on Peter and the apostles and their successors
 

BreadOfLife

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What You are perhaps not getting is the revelation of the Truth does not end, He, Jesus, is the truth, and he continues to reveal the truth to us as the truth grows in us. We all Know in part is what Paul said, That truth has been revealed progressively through history to the church. Jesus said I have many things to share but you cannot bear them yet. (John 16:12), which means some of the truths were not completely revealed to the apostles themselves, though they are the foundation of those beliefs. This Progressive revelation has continued thru the ages, so that the Truth does not change But our understanding of the fulness of the Truth as revealed by the Holy Ghost grows to fulness. So the real question for you is does your church have the whole truth or a partial truth, and are you willing to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches in this day and age, or are you living in the past. We serve a living God, not one confined to building but one who is omnipresent in all who love Him. Not one confined to a single understanding but one who is continually revealing Himself to the People.
I can agree with most of what you said. Jesus told His Apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

HOWEVER
- don't ever think that this means that He will guide tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering factions that ALL teach different doctrines to the truth - because they have chosen the way of MEN from the 16th century and beyond. Don't forget what Jesus prayed for in the very next chapter of John's Gospel:
John 17:20-23

“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE even as we are ONE, I in them and you in me, THAT THEY MEY BE PERFECTLY ONE, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

Jesus's Church is a VISIBLE entity (Matt. 5:14) that has complete UNITY of doctrine (2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 1:12-14, 1 Tim. 3:15).
It is NOT a "hidden" gaggle of perpetually-splintering factions with a mixed bag of beliefs. That was the folly of MEN . . .
 
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mjrhealth

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Ummmmm, I didn't promote "aggressivechristianity.net" - YOU did.

YOU
are the one who sent me there after posting some of their dosctrinal positions - remember?
It wouldn't surprise me if you changed your doctrinal positions, though . . .

Is your memory fading?
One post, all I did, one how long ago was that, must have had some affect on you, the truth will set you free, if you want to be free, but you have no leg to stand on, so you keep promoting it yes you not me, so keep promoting it you may learn something
 

David H.

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I can agree with most of what you said. Jesus told His Apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

HOWEVER
- don't ever think that this means that He will guide tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering factions that ALL teach different doctrines to the truth - because they have chosen the way of MEN from the 16th century and beyond. Don't forget what Jesus prayed for in the very next chapter of John's Gospel:
John 17:20-23

“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE even as we are ONE, I in them and you in me, THAT THEY MEY BE PERFECTLY ONE, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

Jesus's Church is a VISIBLE entity (Matt. 5:14) that has complete UNITY of doctrine (2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Tim. 1:12-14, 1 Tim. 3:15).
It is NOT a "hidden" gaggle of perpetually-splintering factions with a mixed bag of beliefs. That was the folly of MEN . . .

A valid question which hopefully I can answer.

The Fact that Jesus Prays for this oneness shows that he Knows the nature of man is to be splintered and divided. God Uses this to his advantage, and it is all part of His plan. Had One man been given all the truth at once they would use that Power to the detriment of others, this is the nature of man to be ruled and to rule over others. The same Goes for the church, He did not give the full revelation to one church, He gave the foundation for the church to the apostles and then successive generations build upon that foundation. These church ages as I call them each open a with a new revelation to the church Of God's plan, and each generation receives one of the seven Spirits of God. (Read the Introductions to each of the seven letters in Revelation to the seven Churches, if you do not see this as each of these is a part of the full Revelation of Christ given in Revelation 1)

By Keeping the fulness divided, He is allowing this unity of the Spirit to form in the end times when the church has matured and the nature of man and their pride is overcome, the original sin, In their lives, their desire to become like God, which is what Nicolaitanism is rooted and grounded in. It is in this final full submission to God that men can then be lifted up, But not until then. (See James 4:1-10)

When Paul speaks of the fulness of God, and the fulness of Christ in Ephesians this is what he is speaking of, it is a distant prophecy for the church which culminates the church age, the 2000 + years or whatever the time ends up being, that results in the second advent of Christ.... this is how we hasten his coming, think about that. (2 Peter 3:12).

Thus the splintering of the church is a necessary step in achieving that Unity of the Spirit, not a curse, but an opportunity for fellowship. Each church age has a strength and is commended for it, and each has a flaw and is rebuked for it, when all of those errors are addressed, and all those Strengths are upheld then all those churches can come together in the fulness of Christ, United in Agape love as a body of saints, the tribulation saints as some have named them. But they are not the rejects of the rapture as some fundamentalists teach, but the result of this fulness of Christ coming in, when men lay aside the cunning craftiness of the teachings of men, whether that be the Papacy or Luther or Calvin or what have you, and they join in the unity of the Spirit as Brethren. Read again, carefully Ephesians 4:7-16 Notice he gave gifts to all men, Notice how he gave some the gifts of the fivefold ministry until this time is reached, till the saints are perfected and we come to the fulness of Christ. Notice how this involves turning away from the teachings of men with their cunning craftiness. Notice this leads to speaking the truth in love, the truth is painful, but done with meekness and Love it is corrective an healing. It means admitting that we all know in part, until the perfect has come in. It means that in fellowship we can learn the whole Truth, not in isolation. It means that we coming together as brethren is part and parcel to fulfilling Malachi 4:6.

Be warned though, there is a false unity and a true unity of the Spirit. Like everything God does Satan has a false Mimic of, from the unholy trinity of the Dragon the beast and the false prophet, to the ecumenical movement which attempts to unify the world religions under the banner of Coexist, this false unity will come with a unity with the kingdoms of this world, and is exemplified in the woman riding the beast. Much of Catholic doctrine is wrapped up in this ecumenism, and the church militant concept, especially in the Jesuit side of Catholicism. They are consumed with Government influence and gaining power in this world, and will lead them to this One world Government, with their one world religion. This is all a Mimic of Satan Himself, not a Unity of the Spirit as prayed for by Christ and prophesied of by Paul, But a congealing of the principalities and powers of this world That will fight against the Lamb and the chosen and the faithful that are with Him at the battle of Armageddon. (Revelation 17:14)

I Hope this answers your question as I am in a bit of a rush writing this, and perhaps be more detailed when i have more time. Forgive the grammatical errors or typos as i have no time to even proof read.
 

theefaith

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I agree
Charity in all things
And doesn’t the Bible say somewhere “be ye of one mind and one heart “! Eph 4:5 one Lord (Jesus) one faith (Catholic) one baptism (Christian)
 

theefaith

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That little horn grew out of the pagan empire after it has been broken up into ten. It cannot be the empire itself. The empire broke up in the 5th century. And if those 11 horns, only one had the power and influence and the motive to uproot 3 of the others. Western europe is founded in the remaining 7.

lk 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Jesus is Lord
 

BreadOfLife

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One post, all I did, one how long ago was that, must have had some affect on you, the truth will set you free, if you want to be free, but you have no leg to stand on, so you keep promoting it yes you not me, so keep promoting it you may learn something
Ahhhh, so you changed your doctrina beliefs?
 

Renniks

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They were accusing JESUS - not the Holy Spirit - of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebul. They KNEW that Jesus was from God because of the things He did - but they rejected the Holy Spirit's enlightenment regarding who He was. The "unforgiveable sin" against the Holy spirit is NOT saying something "bad" about Him - but final impenitence.
I agree.
 

Renniks

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As to the verses you pesented - NOBODY can snatch you out of His hand. However - because He endowed us with a Free Will, YOU can walk away from Him and the Bible gives us crystal clear warnings about this:
Yes you can, but again, according to your doctrine, simply breaking a commandment is enough to be considered walking away.... where in mine, you have to willingly reject the Spirit permanently. Walking away is far different than falling into sin.
 
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BreadOfLife

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A valid question which hopefully I can answer.

The Fact that Jesus Prays for this oneness shows that he Knows the nature of man is to be splintered and divided. God Uses this to his advantage, and it is all part of His plan. Had One man been given all the truth at once they would use that Power to the detriment of others, this is the nature of man to be ruled and to rule over others. The same Goes for the church, He did not give the full revelation to one church, He gave the foundation for the church to the apostles and then successive generations build upon that foundation. These church ages as I call them each open a with a new revelation to the church Of God's plan, and each generation receives one of the seven Spirits of God. (Read the Introductions to each of the seven letters in Revelation to the seven Churches, if you do not see this as each of these is a part of the full Revelation of Christ given in Revelation 1)

By Keeping the fulness divided, He is allowing this unity of the Spirit to form in the end times when the church has matured and the nature of man and their pride is overcome, the original sin, In their lives, their desire to become like God, which is what Nicolaitanism is rooted and grounded in. It is in this final full submission to God that men can then be lifted up, But not until then. (See James 4:1-10)

When Paul speaks of the fulness of God, and the fulness of Christ in Ephesians this is what he is speaking of, it is a distant prophecy for the church which culminates the church age, the 2000 + years or whatever the time ends up being, that results in the second advent of Christ.... this is how we hasten his coming, think about that. (2 Peter 3:12).

Thus the splintering of the church is a necessary step in achieving that Unity of the Spirit, not a curse, but an opportunity for fellowship. Each church age has a strength and is commended for it, and each has a flaw and is rebuked for it, when all of those errors are addressed, and all those Strengths are upheld then all those churches can come together in the fulness of Christ, United in Agape love as a body of saints, the tribulation saints as some have named them. But they are not the rejects of the rapture as some fundamentalists teach, but the result of this fulness of Christ coming in, when men lay aside the cunning craftiness of the teachings of men, whether that be the Papacy or Luther or Calvin or what have you, and they join in the unity of the Spirit as Brethren. Read again, carefully Ephesians 4:7-16 Notice he gave gifts to all men, Notice how he gave some the gifts of the fivefold ministry until this time is reached, till the saints are perfected and we come to the fulness of Christ. Notice how this involves turning away from the teachings of men with their cunning craftiness. Notice this leads to speaking the truth in love, the truth is painful, but done with meekness and Love it is corrective an healing. It means admitting that we all know in part, until the perfect has come in. It means that in fellowship we can learn the whole Truth, not in isolation. It means that we coming together as brethren is part and parcel to fulfilling Malachi 4:6.

Be warned though, there is a false unity and a true unity of the Spirit. Like everything God does Satan has a false Mimic of, from the unholy trinity of the Dragon the beast and the false prophet, to the ecumenical movement which attempts to unify the world religions under the banner of Coexist, this false unity will come with a unity with the kingdoms of this world, and is exemplified in the woman riding the beast. Much of Catholic doctrine is wrapped up in this ecumenism, and the church militant concept, especially in the Jesuit side of Catholicism. They are consumed with Government influence and gaining power in this world, and will lead them to this One world Government, with their one world religion. This is all a Mimic of Satan Himself, not a Unity of the Spirit as prayed for by Christ and prophesied of by Paul, But a congealing of the principalities and powers of this world That will fight against the Lamb and the chosen and the faithful that are with Him at the battle of Armageddon. (Revelation 17:14)

I Hope this answers your question as I am in a bit of a rush writing this, and perhaps be more detailed when i have more time. Forgive the grammatical errors or typos as i have no time to even proof read.
Sorrt - but you lost me after that first comment above in RED.
You seriously believe that Jesus built more than ONE Church?

Your other comments in RED ahow me just how confused you seem to be. And you're WRONG about Paul's reference to the Church in Eph. 1:22-23 being the FULLNESS of Christ and it being a "distant prophecy". He is talking about the Church in his OWN time.

Your entire response above strikes me as a complete misunderstanding of WHAT the Church is.
Let's see what the Bible says . . .
- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- Jesus said that HE is the Light of the World (John 8:12). Jesus also said that His Church is the Light of the world (Matt. 5:14).
- Jesus is
Truth itself (John 14:6).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of that Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- Jesus told the leaders of His Church that WHATEVER THEY bound or loosed on earth would ALSO be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).
- The
Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

The Church is NOT a disjointed gaggle of tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach a mixed bag of differing beliefs.
It is Chrst Himself and His people - and when unity is gone - it's no longer the Church.
 

BreadOfLife

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Yes you can, but again, according to your doctrine, simply breaking a commandment is enough to be considered walking away.... where in mine, you have to willingly reject the Spirit permanently. Walking away is far different than falling into sin.
And once again - it depends on GRAVITY of sin.
You always ignore important points and then re-argue an issue.

As I already showed you, John states that there is sin that causes DEATH (John 17:20-23) - Spiritual death. Whereas less serious sin (venial) damages our relationship with God - deadly sin (mortal) actually SEVERS it.
So - NOT everyone who dies in sin is lost.
 

Truman

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Who founded your church?

The one true is only founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors! Matt 16:18 matt 18:18
Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20


John 10:14-16
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

“ONE FOLD”!!!

Roman Catholic
Jesus, Peter
Circa 30
Judea

Lutheranism/Protestantism
Martin Luther
1517
Germany

Swiss Reformed Church
Zwingli
1523
Switzerland

Mennonites
No single founder
1525
Switzerland

Anglican Communion
King Henry 8th
1534
England

Calvinism
John Calvin
1536
Switzerland

Presbyterianism
John Knox
1560
Scotland

Baptist Churches
John Smyth
1605
Holland

Dutch Reformed
Michaelis Jones
1628
Netherlands

Amish
Jakob Ammann
1693
Switzerland

Methodism
John Wesley
1739
England

Quakers
George Fox
1647
England

Moravians
Count Zinendorf
1727
Germany

Congregationalism
John & Charles Wesley
1744
England

Swedenborg
Emanuel Swedenborg
1747
Sweden

Brethren
John Darby
1828
England

Latter-day Saints
Joseph Smith
1830
NY, USA

Seventh Day Adventists
Ellen White
1860
NH, USA

Salvation Army
William Booth
1865
England

Jehovah's Witnesses
Charles Russell
1870
PA, USA

Christian Science
Mary Baker Eddy
1879
Pleasant View, NH USA

Pentecostalism
Charles Parham
1900
CA, USA

Worldwide Church of God
Herbert W. Armstrong
1933/1947
OR, USA 4

Unification Church
Sun Myung Moon
1954
South Korea

no man has authority to found a church only Jesus Christ the Lord!
Matt 16:18 “I will build my church”!!!
It is my understanding that the congregation, or ecclesia, of Christ, is founded on the God-given revelation that He is the Christ, or Messiah, the Son of the Living God.
 

theefaith

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It is my understanding that the congregation, or ecclesia, of Christ, is founded on the God-given revelation that He is the Christ, or Messiah, the Son of the Living God.
Not in the person of Peter? You don’t give jurisdictional authority of the keys to a profession of faith but yo a person
Peter and his successors
 
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Truman

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Not in the person of Peter? You don’t give jurisdictional authority of the keys to a profession of faith but yo a person
Peter and his successors
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord shine His face on you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn His face to you and give you peace.
 

Renniks

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And once again - it depends on GRAVITY of sin.
You always ignore important points and then re-argue an issue.

As I already showed you, John states that there is sin that causes DEATH (John 17:20-23) - Spiritual death. Whereas less serious sin (venial) damages our relationship with God - deadly sin (mortal) actually SEVERS it.
So - NOT everyone who dies in sin is lost.
Pure Catholic nonsense. The only deadly sin is unbelief.

When it comes to the issue of salvation, ALL SIN IS SIN. Salvation is not determined by who did more good than bad, in God's sight He could not allow even ONE SIN where big or small in His presence and that's where works salvation really fails. While the severity when it comes to physical punishment is not equal, however it takes only ONE SIN to break the whole Law (James 2:10). Romans 3:10-19 declares that all have sinned and because of that, they've fallen short of the glory of God and they are guilty before God. Also, when Jesus died on the cross He died for ALL sins no matter how big or small. And since salvation can never be merited or earned (Romans 4:5, Ephesians 2:8-9), when a believer sins they do not lose their salvation, however they are miserable and are instead chastised by God (Hebrews 12:5-6).

Putting sins in neat little categories I convenient but unbiblical.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church is found this description of mortal sin: “For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: ‘Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.’” According to the Catechism, “Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments.” The Catechism further states that mortal sin “results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell.”

The Bible states that God will be just and fair in His punishment of sin and that on the day of judgment some sin will merit greater punishment than others (Matthew 11:22, 24; Luke 10:12, 14). But the fact is that all sin will be punished by God. The Bible teaches that all of us sin (Romans 3:23) and that the just compensation for sin is eternal death (Romans 6:23). Over and against the concepts of mortal and venial sin, the Bible does not state that some sins are worthy of eternal death whereas others are not. All sins are mortal sins in that even one sin makes the offender worthy of eternal separation from God.
In both cases of mortal and venial sin, forgiveness of the given transgression is dependent upon the offender making restitution of some type. In Roman Catholicism, this restitution may take the form of going to confession, praying a certain prayer, receiving the Eucharist, or another ritual of some type. The basic thought is that in order for Christ’s forgiveness to be applied to the offender, the offender must perform some work, and then the forgiveness is granted. The payment and forgiveness of the transgression is dependent upon the offender’s actions.

Is this what the Bible teaches regarding the payment for sin? The Bible clearly teaches that the payment for sin is not found in or based upon the actions of the sinner. Consider the words of 1 Peter 3:18, “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.” Take note of the wording, “Christ also died for sins once for all.” This passage teaches that for the person who is believing in Jesus Christ, all of his or her sins have been taken care of on the cross. Christ died for all of them. This includes the sins the believer committed before salvation and the ones he has committed and will commit after salvation.

The Bible does teach (Galatians 6:7 and 8) and (2 Samuel 11-20) that when a Christian gets involved in sin, he or she may reap temporal, physical, emotional, mental and/or spiritual consequences. But the believer never has to reacquire God’s forgiveness due to personal sin because God’s Word declares that God’s wrath toward the believer’s sin was satisfied completely at the cross.