Hebrews 10:26-31

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justbyfaith

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You're right; there is no scripture (that I am aware of) that speaks on the issue; you can take it or leave it: it is based on experience in the fact that the Holy Spirit has convicted me of the fact that such things are indeed sins.

It is based on the fact that Jesus said that if you are angry with your brother without a cause it is the same as murder; and if you lust after a woman in your heart you are guilty of adultery.

I think that lust and unrighteous anger are things that are beyond our control to a certain extent (as we become sanctified we begin to have greater control over such things) and therefore they cannot be defined as willful sins. It is acting on lust and unrighteous anger that can be defined as willful sins.

you go right ahead and base your beliefs upon your human experience and I will continue to base my beliefs upon the everlasting Word of God.

That is the difference between you and I.

hope this helps !!!

Please note that my belief is based in part on what is written in the everlasting word of God.
 

Tong2020

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One thing to make clear is that I'm trying to focus on what I see to be the theological truths, for instance, that all sin can be avoided, therefore, any sin committed shows a failure to avoid it, therefore, all sin is willful.
We can avoid sin as they come to our knowledge and awareness, and as there is a choice. Without knowledge of it, without being aware of it, there isn’t a choice to make to avoid or not.
If I speak in terms of our experience with sin, and how life can look to me, well, take for instance, when I realize I've just yelled at my wife, the poor thing! One could say, those words, that tone, it just got away from me, I didn't mean to yell at her, but look, that's just what I did!

One could say, it was unintentional, I didn't mean it, I didn't choose to yell at her, it just happened.

But while the experience bespeaks of unintentional sin, the reality, as I understand it, is that had I walked into that encounter with my wife with the choice made to remain loving and gentle and kind, I may not have acted that way.

Had I gone into it with my mind set on Christ, with my heart centered on His love, I'd have found all the love I needed to share with her.

Had I been intentioned to watch my words, to control my tone, by the power of the Holy Spirit, I would have.

Maybe the flesh mind started screaming with impatience. Maybe the flesh mind started feeling angry. The the Mind of Christ has power of the mind of the flesh, if I only choose to use it.

Does this help explain my thinking better?

Much love!

Yes, that may well be an example of an unintentional sin. Yes, if you had walked into that encounter with your wife with the choice made to remain loving you may have not acted that way. The Christian that you are, you already made the choice of remaining loving to your wife long long before that encounter, but yet you have acted that way.

I think somehow we are in the same mind and thinking, that the genuine child of God never intends nor wills to sin. But while having that mind, it does not take away the fact that there is such a thing as unintentional sin and sin committed in ignorance.

Tong
R1453
 
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Grailhunter

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The Melchizedec priesthood, biblically, is simply an alternate priesthood to the priesthood of Levi; because Christ was of the tribe of Judah of which Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

Also, because the priesthood is changed there is also a change of the law (Hebrews 7:12); from being of the letter to that of the spirit (Romans 7:6).



The scriptures testify of Jesus; and you are unwilling to come to Him (the Jesus that the scriptures testify of) that you might have life.

If you had found your life in Him years ago you would not be exhibiting a belief system that, according to Him, you will die in your sins because you believe that way.

You have been deceived by a deceiving spirit (see 1 Timothy 4:1). The true Jesus is the God of the Bible: and you do not believe in Him; you believe in a different Jesus (see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4).

Maybe He just hasn't revealed Himself to you as God yet. Why don't you ask Him if He is in fact God; and see what He says?

I'd be interested in the answer that you would receive.

Hey there JBF..! Hope all is good with you and yours...
The Melchizedec priesthood, biblically, is simply an alternate priesthood to the priesthood of Levi; because Christ was of the tribe of Judah of which Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

Does this sound like just another guy? Did Melchizedek start that priesthood or was it a priesthood started by God?
Hebrews 7:3 Referring to Melchizedek…Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he abides as a priest perpetually….No matter how you cut it, this verse elevate Melchizedek to a level that appear to be divine in someway or an immortal with a direct connection with God.

The plot thickens....Psalm 110:1-7 ...The LORD says to my LORD: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." The LORD will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying, "Rule in the midst of your enemies!" Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy splendor, your young men will come to you like dew from the morning's womb. The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." The LORD is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. He will drink from a brook along the way, and so he will lift his head high....this is relevant to the mystery.

Also, because the priesthood is changed there is also a change of the law (Hebrews 7:12); from being of the letter to that of the spirit (Romans 7:6).

The law cannot change, only to the extent that it fades away. You know I can heap a bunch of scriptures on you. But sticking with Hebrews because it explains things so well, the Old Covenant is obsolete and fades away. Why fades away? Because the Jews are still under the Old Covenant. As Christ said, Matthew 5:18, "'For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Still in effect for the Jews, not our Covenant with God, not our relationship with God, Not our Law or understanding of right and wrong. Christ's Word, supersedes all and is much more excellent. As Hebrews says, Hebrews 8:6-7 "But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second." And as the Apostle Paul backs this up in 2nd Corinthians 3:6-11 "Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how shall the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory on account of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory."
 

Ferris Bueller

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how then could it be that there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins be the reason and result of his willful sinning?
Because the sacrifice of Jesus doesn't cover deliberate sin. I mean as long as you remain in it.

Can a person’s willful sinning affect the matter of whether there is still a sacrifice for sins or not?
Yes, because deliberate, willful sin is not covered by Christ's sacrifice. Willfully and deliberately sinning is a rejection of Christ. Christ's sacrifice does not cover the sin of rejecting Christ's sacrifice.
 

Tong2020

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Because the sacrifice of Jesus doesn't cover deliberate sin. I mean as long as you remain in it.
What do you really mean by “as long as you remain it”?

And if you don’t remain in it? What becomes of your deliberate sin?

Tong
R1455
 

Tong2020

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Yes, because deliberate, willful sin is not covered by Christ's sacrifice. Willfully and deliberately sinning is a rejection of Christ. Christ's sacrifice does not cover the sin of rejecting Christ's sacrifice.
What kind of sins do you say are covered by Christ’s sacrifice?

Does it cover past sins, present sins, and future sins?

Tong
R1456
 

Tong2020

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Willfully and deliberately sinning is a rejection of Christ.
Willfully and deliberately sinning, could it happen to one who is genuinely born of God?

Can one who is genuinely born of God reject Christ?

Tong
R1457
 

Tong2020

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As per your reading do you take the writer of Hebrews as writing to genuine Christians or to Christians in general or to both Christians and non-Christians? Or perhaps to any other than those I mentioned?

Tong
R1458
 

mjrhealth

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Because the sacrifice of Jesus doesn't cover deliberate sin. I mean as long as you remain in it.


Yes, because deliberate, willful sin is not covered by Christ's sacrifice. Willfully and deliberately sinning is a rejection of Christ. Christ's sacrifice does not cover the sin of rejecting Christ's sacrifice.
So if you got angry at your brother just once your done for. Like I said based on christianities ver of salvation we are all doomed.
 

Ferris Bueller

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What do you really mean by “as long as you remain it”?
It means, as long as you continue in your willful sin.

And if you don’t remain in it? What becomes of your deliberate sin?
First, let's understand that if you remain unrepentant in your willful sin God will eventually turn you over to your rejection of Christ. But until then I believe, based on the example of the Corinthians and the Galatians, that God leaves the door open for a while for the willful sinner to come to his senses and stop sinning. But after that he doesn't allow the willful sinner to come back.
 

Ferris Bueller

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So if you got angry at your brother just once your done for. Like I said based on christianities ver of salvation we are all doomed.
Assuming you're talking about deliberate sin, Christ said you are IN DANGER of hell fire. Willingly persist in it and you will in fact be judged as an unbeliever at the return of Christ.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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As per your reading do you take the writer of Hebrews as writing to genuine Christians or to Christians in general or to both Christians and non-Christians? Or perhaps to any other than those I mentioned?

Tong
R1458
Hebrews 6:8-12 and Hebrews 10:32-35 (which immediately follows the text we are examining) make it abundantly clear that the letter is addressed to saved Christians.
 

Ferris Bueller

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What kind of sins do you say are covered by Christ’s sacrifice?

Does it cover past sins, present sins, and future sins?
From a legal standpoint, as long as you are in a state of believing, Christ's sacrifice covers your past sins, and your present sins the moment you commit them (Hebrews 7:25). Assuming you are still believing in the future, those sins yet to be committed will also be immediately covered by the blood the moment you commit them. If you are in a state of unbelief in the future there will be no sacrifice remaining for your future sin to be covered.
 

Tong2020

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It means, as long as you continue in your willful sin.
Oh I now see more clearly. Thanks.

That kind of deliberate sinning then obviously will have no forgiveness. That’s common sense, right? For how could there be without repentance?

So, to complete my understanding of what you are saying now of Hebrews 10-26-27,

That if a person sin willfully and remain unrepentant, after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation, because the sacrifice of Jesus doesn't cover deliberate sin.

There. That’s clear to me now.

First, let's understand that if you remain unrepentant in your willful sin God will eventually turn you over to your rejection of Christ. But until then I believe, based on the example of the Corinthians and the Galatians, that God leaves the door open for a while for the willful sinner to come to his senses and stop sinning. But after that he doesn't allow the willful sinner to come back.
So you are effectively saying that if say after 1,2,3,4,5,6, 10 years of unrepentant willful deliberate sinning, if the door is still open, he will be forgiven upon repentance, right? I get your doctrine now.

You are also saying then that the sacrifice of Christ actually covers also deliberate sins.

That seems to run contradictory with what I gather you are saying what Hebrews 10:26-27 is saying above.

But anyway, thanks for the clarification. I just don’t agree with your interpretation.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Hebrews 6:8-12 and Hebrews 10:32-35 (which immediately follows the text we are examining) make it abundantly clear that the letter is addressed to saved Christians.
Thank you for a clear answer.

Hebrews 10:26-27 then should be read in that context. It is not intended to be applied to nor applicable to others, contrary to what you say in our past exchanges.

Tong
R1461
 

Behold

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I make sense of it by agreeing with it. By "said sin" do you mean a sin that is "willful"? My point is that this verse isn't talking about all willful sins (and I reiterate that if it is we are all in trouble); it's talking about one in particular: that is in verses 23-25. I say that with assurance because the verse starts with "for [because] if". .

2 things.

1.) If you are sitting in a Church, listening to a person in a Pulpit who has "fallen from Grace", then they will teach this heresy..
= "if you sin willfully, as found in Hebrews 10", then you have lost your salvation or will.
So, that is the error of a seriously carnal self righteous person who , first of all, is not honest. As every Christian both dead or still breathing has at least one time, sinned, knowing you were sinning. And this is """willfully.""""...Reader.
So, to pretend on a Forum or in real life... that this has not occurred since you were saved.... is to lie, knowingly, ....and that would be one more "willful sin" you've committed.
So do not pretend that all your sin was an accident that you never meant to do, or maybe God will bring to your mind all the R-rated movies and R rated Music, and R Rated Cable TV shows you have sit there and ENJOYED.
Believe me, i can find your sin on the list, and God already watched you do it, AFTER you were born again.
So, just be honest, in your own heart, and realize reality.
That's what we all have to do.

2.) So, when looking at Hebrews 10, and regarding this "willful" sinning, we have to realize that if that verse was talking to a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, then we are all going to go to hell.
So, that is how you know, first of all, that this verse is not talking to a Christian, and so, when you hear someone trying to condemn a believer with this Chapter and those verses, you are dealing with a Legalist, who is fallen from Grace, or you are dealing with a non-Christian who is very Religious and has no idea that their water baptism confirmation moment, did not save them.

Hebrews 10, is showing you an Apostle, a Jew, who is dealing with hateful Christ rejecting Jews. (Hebrews).
This Apostle has given them the "signs of an apostle", 2nd Corinthians 12:12.. as this is a heavenly Gift that an Apostle manifests that proves you are a real Apostle, and that is the : "tasted the heavenly gift", part of the verse..
So, these Hebrews, are hearing the Gospel with signs following the Apostle Paul who is showing them..
And they knowingly, (willfully) reject their Messiah......anyway.
And to do that, Paul explains.....is to "crucify Jesus afresh".....with the context being....."same as your Father's did" when they rejected Him and screamed= "Crucify Him".
So, Paul is explaining to them what they are doing, and the dire consequence of their WILLFUL CHOICE = to REJECT THEIR MESSIAH.

He explains that if they reject their Messiah then they will "die in their sin", John 8:24 because they have rejected Jesus's offer of redemption. = "there remains no more sacrifice'"" for these Christ rejecting HEBREWS.
This means....if you reject the pardon, there is no pardon for you, later.
If you reject the cure, there is no cure for you, later.

Turn to Acts 28, and read the last 10 verses.
You will find Paul, once again, dealing with another SET , GROUP< of Hebrew Christ rejectors.
Its the same thing again, that you find in Hebrews 10.
 

Tong2020

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From a legal standpoint, as long as you are in a state of believing, Christ's sacrifice covers your past sins, and your present sins the moment you commit them (Hebrews 7:25). Assuming you are still believing in the future, those sins yet to be committed will also be immediately covered by the blood the moment you commit them. If you are in a state of unbelief in the future there will be no sacrifice remaining for your future sin to be covered.
A clarification. When you say past, present , future SINS, do you mean all kinds of sin, intentional and unintentional, deliberate and not deliberate, knowingly or not, small or big?

Thanks

Tong
R1462
 

Ferris Bueller

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You are also saying then that the sacrifice of Christ actually covers also deliberate sins.
Only if you establish a repentant, believing relationship with the Lord in the time he provides. After that, since you have rejected the Lord, knowingly, he doesn't allow you to repent (Hebrews 6:4-6).
 

Ferris Bueller

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Thank you for a clear answer.

Hebrews 10:26-27 then should be read in that context. It is not intended to be applied to nor applicable to others, contrary to what you say in our past exchanges.

Tong
R1461
Obviously, any unsaved person among us saved Christians in the church can benefit from the letter written to the saints in the Hebrew church.