What I love about it is that it shows the contradiction in @Blood Bought 1953's theology...
For he obviously believes in OSAS doctrine but hypocritically doesn't apply that doctrine to people who teach against what he believes in.
Hebrews 10:26-31
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What I love about it is that it shows the contradiction in @Blood Bought 1953's theology...
For he obviously believes in OSAS doctrine but hypocritically doesn't apply that doctrine to people who teach against what he believes in.
Nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith is in fact true faith, and it is saving faith.
It has the power to save from sin...it just has the possibility of not being able to save from hell.
If the person falls away because of temptation (Luke 8:13), then they are not saved from hell; although they were saved from sin (for a season).
Ok...
Eze 33:11, Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:12, Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13, When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14, Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15, If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16, None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17, Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18, When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19, But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Eze 33:20, Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.
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Seems like you are looking at faith more than Jesus Christ, as that saves the man. Jesus Christ is the savior, not something else, not faith. Faith is just through which Jesus saves the man. And this faith isn’t one that does not remain, but that endures to the end.
Tong
R1550
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I don't either. Performing righteous works meant nothing toward earning salvation before you got saved, and they mean nothing towards keeping it after salvation. But everybody knows this.
I don't believe that either. But God won't hold you hostage in a salvation you don't want. He has some pretty strong persuasive powers but, in the end, if you deny him he will deny you. God doesn't grovel for the love and attention of his people. I think that's the attribute of God the church doesn't believe exists. He doesn't raise snowflakes.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Even if he was doing that he still has faith in Christ.
Faith does not remain where it has been rejected.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
He restored himself. He refused to submit to the discipline of the governing body of the denomination he was under at the time of his fall.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
God graciously opens the door and makes it possible for us to respond with our trust to the gospel message. He opens the door, we do the trusting.
5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Romans 4:5
As we can see, the trusting that we do is in no way, shape, or form a self righteous work of merit. In fact, it's exactly the opposite of that. So it's okay for the person themselves to do the trusting that accesses the salvation of God. And it's okay to continue that trusting. It doesn't become a self righteous work of merit if you decide to continue to trust God, as Behold claims.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It's right there under your nose in the Hebrews passage we're talking about....
Hebrews 10:26-28
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
The penalty for deliberately sinning in this New Covenant is being compared to the penalty of rejecting the law of Moses. Deliberately sinning is a rejection of the New Covenant, Jesus Christ. Just as deliberately sinning was a rejection of the old covenant (Deuteronomy 29:19-21, Numbers 15:30-31). And the penalty for rejecting this covenant by deliberately sinning is much more severe....
Hebrews 10:28-29
28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Good to hear that you don’t too. I understand then that you believe that the rest is up to God and is in His hands. That God will bring the man home eventually.
Good that you believe that too.
However you have some thing to add. And I don’t believe that addition. I believe that God owns the man as He purchased him with the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son. So, no hostage or what. I believe that God adopts him as His own child and will raise him to be conformed to the image of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. And I believe that He will not fail and does not fail. I believe He is more than powerful to do that and keep him. And God is no imperfect human father, but is the perfect Father.
Tong
R1551
If it does not remain it isn’t the faith Scriptures talks about. The faith that scriptures speaks through which God saves is that which remain. It is the same of that with love and hope that scriptures speaks of that which remain.
So, if that is not what faith you know, then we are not of the same mind.
Tong
R1552
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes, faith is not from man and is no work of man. As I said, true faith continues and remain.
But that is not my question. The question is how you were able to respond positively.
Tong
R1553
I would not put it that way. God will surely accomplish His will in saving the man. He will bring him home. As I pointed out, God does not leave the rest to the man nor put things in the hands of the man.
Tong
R1554
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I answered it. By God's grace.
God extends the grace of making salvation available to us by giving us the gift of faith, and we respond by putting our trust in it, if that's what we want to do. He gives us the unhindered choice to respond negatively or positively to the revelation of the truth of the gospel.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It's up to you if you want to continue to believe and trust in the gospel. That's not a works gospel because I showed you where it says trusting in God is not a work of merit.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I agree completely. He will do what he said he will do for the person who trusts in him and continues to trust in him. You just think the believer can never stop believing. Good. You're entitled to that belief. What's important is that you know that the believer must believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. That's the important matter that the Bible teaches.
Of course that is by God’s grace. It could not be anything else. That is a given.
As I pointed out in one of my post under this thread, that before the man became a Christian, that he was dead ~ can do nothing.
Now you said “ My response to God's gift of faith comes from me.“ How then were you able to respond positively?
Tong
R1555
So it’s up to you. That’s clear.
I don’t have the same mind. As I said, for me, faith spoken of in scriptures is one with a nature that endures to the end and remains. And that faith is that which comes from God and given by God to the man whom He saves.
Tong
R1556
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