Hebrews 10:26-31

[Tong2020]

Here, maybe this one makes it more clear....

Hebrews 6:10-11
10For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so.11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. ​

You are to show diligence to the very end in "your work and the love you have shown for His name". And he says to do that "in order to make your hope sure". Working is how you make your hope sure.

More clear? How is that? Is 2 Peter 1 not clear enough?

You point to scriptures that speaks of hope and use it to clear another that speaks of calling and election? Is that for you, rightly dividing the word?

Well,......

Tong
R1613

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you still have the mind that your spiritual growth is by your works

No, that's not what I'm saying. Your ever increasing works of righteousness (kindness, mercy, patience, forgiveness, etc.) is your spiritual growth.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 1 Corinthians 13:11​

Your behavior changes because you are growing up. The change of behavior signifies spiritual growth. It testifies that you have God's calling and election.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

More clear? How is that? Is 2 Peter 1 not clear enough?

You point to scriptures that speaks of hope and use it to clear another that speaks of calling and election? Is that for you, rightly dividing the word?

Well,......

Tong
R1613

"Your work and the love you have shown" shows, and thus confirms, that you do in fact have the hope of salvation. The author says keep working all the way to the end in order to have that assurance of salvation all the way to the end. I don't get why this is so hard for you to grasp.

10For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so.11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. Hebrews 6:10-11
​

'Do' in 2 Peter 1:10 wasn't enough to show you that this is about your work confirming your calling and election. This passage spells it out that it's your work that gives you the assurance that you have the hope of salvation. I don't understand how you're missing it.

 

[Tong2020]

No, that's not what I'm saying. Your ever increasing works of righteousness (kindness, mercy, patience, forgiveness, etc.) is your spiritual growth.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 1 Corinthians 13:11​

Your behavior changes because you are growing up. The change of behavior signifies spiritual growth. It testifies that you have God's calling and election.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Your ever increasing works of righteousness (kindness, mercy, patience, forgiveness, etc.) is your spiritual growth.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 1 Corinthians 13:11​

Your behavior changes because you are growing up. The change of behavior signifies spiritual growth. It testifies that you have God's calling and election.

So you are now saying here that spiritual growth is not by your works. That’s good.

So, it’s settled, it is not by works that one’s calling and election is confirmed.

Tong
R1614

 

[marks]

It is to a certain extent.

So here's the thing. The prophecies concerning Israel and the Mosaic Covenant aren't, "to a certain extent". They will keep every law, every statute.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, it’s settled, it is not by works that one’s calling and election is confirmed.

Maybe there's a language barrier here. You have the assurance that you really are called and elected by your works, because unsaved people don't have lives growing up into works of righteousness. Only saved people do. That's how and why works show if you are saved or not.

 

[marks]

Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,

Fulfilled in us, not by us, or through us.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

"Your work and the love you have shown" shows, and thus confirms, that you do in fact have the hope of salvation. The author says keep working all the way to the end in order to have that assurance of salvation all the way to the end. I don't get why this is so hard for you to grasp.

10For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so.11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. Hebrews 6:10-11
​

'Do' in 1 Peter 1:10 wasn't enough to show you that this is about your work confirming your calling and election. This passage spells it out that it's your work that gives you the assurance that you have the hope of salvation. I don't understand how you're missing it.

So here you go back saying it is by your works. So what is really your mind? I would guess that you will stick on works. Works then, it is for you.

Miss it? How is that when we are taking about calling and election and you want a passage that speaks about hope to speak about calling and election? What happened?

Tong
R1615

 

[marks]

Also, please note, @marks, that we have not really interacted with each other for some time; and that therefore I may not remember any of your posts wherein you may have exalted the Old Testament as being holy scripture that we are to abide by.

Perhaps the best thing would be the engage in some active listening, also called reflective listening. This involve repeating back to a person what they've said without changing it, without answering it, without anything besides reflecting back what you believe the person to be saying.

Then, if you are right in what you understand, the person can say so. Otherwise, they can offer a correction, after which you again repeat back in your own words what they are expressing.

And once you get to the place where they tell you, yes, that's right, then true discussion can begin.

What I'm picking up from your posts is that you like to reword my statements into something I'm not saying trying to just score points off of me.

For instance . . .

So, in your estimation, rightly dividing the word of truth means discounting the Old Testament?

In this instance you've reworded and mischaracterized my statements.

Here is another.

I wrote:

marks said: ↑

In the NT, using metanoia, it's a word speaking of not changing one's mind, but exchanging it. Rather then the "stop doing this and start doing that" of the OT, it's more, trade in your old mind for a new mind, and now we have new minds.

To which you replied:

So, just to be accurate, you are teaching that repentance (away from sin) is not necessary for salvation.

A reflective listening reply would be more like,

So you're saying "metanoia, in the New Testament, isn't talking about changing your view on something, but instead is talking about not having the old mind anymore, and now having a new mind entirely. So then repentance in the New Testament isn't about sin, but instead it describes having this new mind instead of the old one. Is that right?

Then I'd reply something like, It's not that repentence isn't about sin, more that is takes care of sin in a different way. Not that we monitor and control our behavior, and deal with sin that way. This is to not just change what we do, we change who we are. We were flesh men with flesh minds, now we are God's children with Christ-minds, and this changes our behavior.

And you would then repeat it back in your words, So you're saying repentance in the NT isn't about changing what you do, it refers to changing what mind you have, from the flesh mind, to now having the mind of Christ.

And I'd say, Yeah, that's right, and then we can discuss the matter if we want, but with clarity and understanding and accuracy.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Again, the Old Testament is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).

The same Holy Ghost inspired both the Old and New Testaments to be written; He is the author.

1Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

All these are true, naturally, but again, we have to rightly divide.

A simple example . . . are you building an ark, expecting to see groups of animals showing up at your door? I'm guessing not, because you recognize that this instruction was given to Noah, and not you, and wasn't meant for you.

Does this mean we discount the record of Noah, and the flood, and all that happened? Of course not.

Does it mean we can't learn from this part of the Bible? Of course not.

Does it mean we should be building an ark? Of course not! Because in this we rightly divide.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I read the ten commandments that way.

It is interesting to note that the curses and judgments of ceremonial law spelled out penalties for transgression which were totally missing from the Ten Commandments. For this reason, the ceremonial law was considered to be a law which was “against” them. Even in the New Testament we read the same descriptive language in reference to that law. “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross” (Colossians 2:14).

Certainly there was nothing in the Ten-Commandment law that could be defined as “contrary” to Paul and the church to whom he was writing. It was not “against” those early Christians to refrain from adultery, theft, lying, etc. On the other hand, that moral law was a tremendous protection to them and favored every interest in their lives. We have only to read Paul’s exalted description of the Ten-Commandment law to recognize that those eternal principles were never blotted out or nailed to the cross. After quoting the tenth commandment of the decalogue in Romans 7:7, Paul wrote these words, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” (verse 12). Then he continued in verse 14, “For we know that the law is spiritual ...”

If the Ten-Commandment law had been blotted out at the cross, would Paul have spoken in such glowing language of its perfection and spirituality? He did not speak of a past law. He said, “the law IS holy ... the law IS spiritual.” In other words, it was very much alive and operating when Paul wrote to the Roman church. In contrast he described the handwriting of ordinances in the past tense: “WAS against us ... WAS contrary to us.” It is certain he was not speaking of the same law. One was present and one was past.

I believe the wording in that verse tells us that it was our dept to God that was blotted out. That was the historical use of that word, Handwriting, chierographon. Your Handwriting was your promissory note. Our debt of sin was blotted out, being nailed to the cross. He became sin, who knew no sin, that you may become the righteousness of God in Him.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Never did, your clutching at straws,

Nope.

Its not Christ first its bible first, Idols in mens hearts.

The Bible is not a graven image. The scriptures are they which testify of Him; but you are unwilling to come to Him that you might have life (John 5:39-40).

But you have to abide in Him first.

Right. And that means that His words will abide in you (John 15:7).

Its one thing to be living that kind of Life its another to be boasting about it,

Sometimes God's people are compelled to boast, because unbelieving folk ask for proof of what they are saying, about entire sanctification being possible. Sometimes the only way those unbelieving folk are going to be able to see the truth is if we tell them that God has done that work in our own lives so that, over time, as they test that in us, they can see that it is indeed the reality and that the doctrine is true.

I tend not to boast about the work that the Lord has done in my heart unless someone is denying that it is possible for the Lord to do that work in anyone's heart. Then I give them my testimony, so that they can know that it is indeed possible.

If your obedient shouldn't you shut up about it

For the most part; but there is a time and a place for everything.

This is not true.
Your commentary is lying.
The person that wrote it is a deceiver.

This coming from the person who denies indwelling sin (and 1 John 1:8 declares that he deceives himself and the truth is not in him).

If @Ferris Bueller is lying and is a deceiver, give scripture to show forth that what he is saying is a lie. Put up or shut up.

The fact is, God never withdraws John 3:16. NOT EVER !

The fact is, John 3:16 bases the "should not perish" on believing in Christ.

So, if someone ceases to believe in Christ, the "should not perish" no longer applies.

It comes back to what we say about Luke 8:13. Someone who believes for a while, and then falls away in a time of temptation, does not continue to have salvation.

To say otherwise is heresy.

So here's the thing. The prophecies concerning Israel and the Mosaic Covenant aren't, "to a certain extent". They will keep every law, every statute.

So, you think that that is possible?

If it is possible for Israel, why is it not possible for the Gentile?

Do you not realize that the New Covenant is the New Testament; and that therefore the law is written on the hearts and minds of believing Gentiles as well as Jews (see Hebrews 8:8-10)?

Fulfilled in us, not by us, or through us.

in us is also by us and/or through us. For if you clean the inside of the cup of the platter, the outside will be clean also.

Perhaps the best thing would be the engage in some active listening, also called reflective listening. This involve repeating back to a person what they've said without changing it, without answering it, without anything besides reflecting back what you believe the person to be saying.

Then, if you are right in what you understand, the person can say so. Otherwise, they can offer a correction, after which you again repeat back in your own words what they are expressing.

And once you get to the place where they tell you, yes, that's right, then true discussion can begin.

What I'm picking up from your posts is that you like to reword my statements into something I'm not saying trying to just score points off of me.

I have only phrased my estimations of your doctrine in the form of a question.

For instance . . .

So, in your estimation, rightly dividing the word of truth means discounting the Old Testament?

Case in point.

I wrote:

marks said: ↑

In the NT, using metanoia, it's a word speaking of not changing one's mind, but exchanging it. Rather then the "stop doing this and start doing that" of the OT, it's more, trade in your old mind for a new mind, and now we have new minds.

To which you replied:

So, just to be accurate, you are teaching that repentance (away from sin) is not necessary for salvation.

Again, in the form of a question (though without a question mark).

All these are true, naturally, but again, we have to rightly divide.

A simple example . . . are you building an ark, expecting to see groups of animals showing up at your door? I'm guessing not, because you recognize that this instruction was given to Noah, and not you, and wasn't meant for you.

Does this mean we discount the record of Noah, and the flood, and all that happened? Of course not.

Does it mean we can't learn from this part of the Bible? Of course not.

Does it mean we should be building an ark? Of course not! Because in this we rightly divide.

Much love!

So, how is my defining repentance using Ezekiel 33:11-20 not rightly dividing the word? Iow, how is it like your illustration using Noah?

 

[mjrhealth]

The Bible is not a graven image. The scriptures are they which testify of Him; but you are unwilling to come to Him that you might have life (John 5:39-40).

It is to those who put it before God,

I will have no Idols before me,

Its all you know, and no matter how you twist and squirm it will never change untill you go to Him so you can have life, but to do that, the idol will have to go, and you wont let it, thats why it is an idol

Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

But you wont because you dont believe Him or the Holy Spirit, bible first is what you do, makes Christ last.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is to those who put it before God,

I will have no Idols before me,

Its all you know, and no matter how you twist and squirm it will never change untill you go to Him so you can have life, but to do that, the idol will have to go, and you wont let it, thats why it is an idol

Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

But you wont because you dont believe Him or the Holy Spirit, bible first is what you do, makes Christ last.

I know that I do not place the Bible before Christ; any more than a warrior places his sword before his King. in terms of loyalty. As was the case of Reepicheep in the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, I will gladly lay down my sword in order that I might enter into the realm of Aslan.

But also, in the case of Reepicheep, he did not lay down his sword for as long as he needed it in Narnia.

 

[marks]

So, with that, do you see how the Christian’s calling and election is confirmed? It’s not by what you say you do, that is by doing works.

It is giving all diligence, to add to one’s faith virtue, to virtue perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. In other words, to grow in the Spirit.

Growing in the Spirit or Spiritual growth is that which makes one’s calling and election sure or confirms it. That is what Peter is saying there in 2 Peter 1. Not doing works as you teach.

Tong
R1611

That seems clear.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, you think that that is possible?

If it is possible for Israel, why is it not possible for the Gentile?

Is that what I said? No it is not. So why do you feel the need to misrepresent me?



Seriously. Why not address what I've actually said?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have only phrased my estimations of your doctrine in the form of a question.

You rephrase to make it sound different. If all you are interest in is defending this sort of dishonest, then there is no point in continuing.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

I know that I do not place the Bible before Christ; any more than a warrior places his sword before his King. in terms of loyalty. As was the case of Reepicheep in the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, I will gladly lay down my sword in order that I might enter into the realm of Aslan.

He is the sword, the one who brings division, which is why so many fight against Him. "But the bible says, and I read the bible so I am right". Well sorry a lot of people disagree with you and me and one another over that very same book, so quoting it does not make anyone right.

God is not the author of confusion. Apparently to you and many He is.

 

[HisLife]

Sometimes God's people are compelled to boast, because unbelieving folk ask for proof of what they are saying, about entire sanctification being possible. Sometimes the only way those unbelieving folk are going to be able to see the truth is if we tell them that God has done that work in our own lives so that, over time, as they test that in us, they can see that it is indeed the reality and that the doctrine is true.

I tend not to boast about the work that the Lord has done in my heart unless someone is denying that it is possible for the Lord to do that work in anyone's heart. Then I give them my testimony, so that they can know that it is indeed possible.

Entire Sanctification? there is nothing in Scripture that teaches that believers will become perfect in this life. Entire sanctification will take place when we reach heaven, but not until. When I tested you I found you are a complete mess And a hypocrite, And you live in a delusion You even Said you think Eve had elves that didn't sin and that Santa gained access to the tree of life...So I guess you think He was a candidate for entire Sanctification? you think you see yourself in movies...Was it James Bond... You need to realize your delusion and snap out of it, Humble your self from your false humility, your not convincing anyone

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I do not have a lucky repentance gospel. God decides if the unbelieving willful sinner is allowed to come back to repentance. There's nothing lucky about it.

The only thing worse than your previous “ False Gospel” Of Lucky Repentance just may be your Latest One, here on display ! THIS” One’s REALLY a Stinker !