Human Freewill the devil's greatest trick

[Heart2Soul]

dead in trespasses and sin

Okay now you're not making any sense...getting back to freewill...we are to choose for ourselves which master we will serve. The decision is made in our mind...but it is the heart that must be changed.
Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, Oh Lord, and renew a right spirit within me.

 

[Grailhunter]

Paul gives a wealth of information about predestination and election [as is his wont] he compacts it it all into one or two sentences.

Our predestination and election calling [says he] is to be conformed to the image of God's dear Son WOW what a weight of doctrine is packed in there, what a wealth of blessing.
Again he says in Ephesians we were chosen in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace WOW.

It is what the whole christian life is all about ... becoming like Jesus and praising Him.

THAT'S what Paul teaches about predestination and election. OF COURSE we must be saved for that. But it does not preclude anybody else from being saved.

And yes I know what thread I am on ... it is my thread.

Our predestination and election calling [says he] is to be conformed to the image of God's dear Son....
Sounds good....would you mind drawing that picture? With that wealth of information that you have received about predestination.

Again he says in Ephesians we were chosen in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace....

Oh boy this brings back memories. "We only preach what is in the Holy Bible!"
Calvinist congregations are fed this for years...a twisted satanic interpretation of God's Word. Families are hurt by this. They develop friendships, the parents, the kids and when they finally realize the footprints of Satan and they leave, they are shunned by people that at one time were close friends. Some call the Calvinists a Cult due to the apparent brainwashing affect of considering themselves the "Elect." But I do not consider them a Cult... More like Satan's Pulpit.

Again he says in Ephesians we were chosen in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace....
This verse can be interpreted different ways.
Because of verses that include the whole world, it could be interpreted to mean all people were chosen. But some chose to reject that election.

Or it could mean all those that are Christians are the elect.

Or it could mean a selected group of Christians are the elect.

Or it could mean only a small select group of people that are the elect....ie "the Predestinationists" Only the Predestinationists. When they huddle together and talk about their religion it is clear that they believe that other denominations are not going to Heaven.

So explain the truth about what you believe and you will be exposed. As the title says...explain why human freewill is the devil's greatest trick?

If only some are chosen....what happens to those that are not chosen before the world began? Tell the truth I dare you!

The truth is that the Predestinationist's views are the devil's greatest trick and triumph. Satan is a schemer, how great a trophy to hang on his shelf. Christians that believe in Christ, love Christ and are baptized....but on Judgment day they stand before Christ and He says He never knew them. Preaching that God is the Monster Puppet Master will get them their reward. This is one of the ways that Christians end up in Hell. One of the other ways is habitual sins...lifestyle sins, and of course Calvinists can be a lifestyle sin. Sin crouches at your door and its desire is to have you. Do not become sin.

 

[Renniks]

So now you are saying "whom God did NOT know He also predestined and chose..."

How would it be possible to preplan somebody's life who God doesn't know.?

...as if God wouldn't know

No I didn't say that. Knowledge isn't causation. And where's it say God plans everything in our lives?

What I said was that God choose for there to be a group that would do good works. We enter that group when we believe. God doesn't pick us like picking people for his baseball team. He's not a respecter of persons. He desires the salvation of all.

 

[Renniks]

being predestined and chosen to be conformed to the image of Christ must absolutely involve being saved ... but it doesn't exclude anybody from being saved.

Of course it does. If we are individually chosen, then others are chosen for damnation.

 

[Renniks]

Do sheeps choose to be sheeps or goats choose to be goats?

Biblically, they certainly do.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Of course it does. If we are individually chosen, then others are chosen for damnation.

You blame Calvin but here you are asaying the same mistake ... where is there any scripture that says God chose anybody for damnation? it is an assumption based upon human wisdom.

Where is there any scripture which says only the church will be saved? what about those who knew not the law who did by nature what the law required?

 

[Billy Evmur]

No I didn't say that. Knowledge isn't causation. And where's it say God plans everything in our lives?

What I said was that God choose for there to be a group that would do good works. We enter that group when we believe. God doesn't pick us like picking people for his baseball team. He's not a respecter of persons. He desires the salvation of all.

so we are saved not as a free gift but on account of good works which we will do? bit like a second-hand car sales pitch, it's free, it's free ... until the bill comes in.

I think there is the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman
there is wheat and there are tares
there are sheep and there are goats
doves and vipers

Jesus as well as the multitudes who heard Him gladly was surrounded by vipers ... children of the devil.

 

[Billy Evmur]

View attachment 13448

Our predestination and election calling [says he] is to be conformed to the image of God's dear Son....
Sounds good....would you mind drawing that picture? With that wealth of information that you have received about predestination.

Again he says in Ephesians we were chosen in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace....

Oh boy this brings back memories. "We only preach what is in the Holy Bible!"
Calvinist congregations are fed this for years...a twisted satanic interpretation of God's Word. Families are hurt by this. They develop friendships, the parents, the kids and when they finally realize the footprints of Satan and they leave, they are shunned by people that at one time were close friends. Some call the Calvinists a Cult due to the apparent brainwashing affect of considering themselves the "Elect." But I do not consider them a Cult... More like Satan's Pulpit.

Again he says in Ephesians we were chosen in Christ before the world began to be a people for the praise of His glorious grace....
This verse can be interpreted different ways.
Because of verses that include the whole world, it could be interpreted to mean all people were chosen. But some chose to reject that election.

Or it could mean all those that are Christians are the elect.

Or it could mean a selected group of Christians are the elect.

Or it could mean only a small select group of people that are the elect....ie "the Predestinationists" Only the Predestinationists. When they huddle together and talk about their religion it is clear that they believe that other denominations are not going to Heaven.

So explain the truth about what you believe and you will be exposed. As the title says...explain why human freewill is the devil's greatest trick?

If only some are chosen....what happens to those that are not chosen before the world began? Tell the truth I dare you!

The truth is that the Predestinationist's views are the devil's greatest trick and triumph. Satan is a schemer, how great a trophy to hang on his shelf. Christians that believe in Christ, love Christ and are baptized....but on Judgment day they stand before Christ and He says He never knew them. Preaching that God is the Monster Puppet Master will get them their reward. This is one of the ways that Christians end up in Hell. One of the other ways is habitual sins...lifestyle sins, and of course Calvinists can be a lifestyle sin. Sin crouches at your door and its desire is to have you. Do not become sin.

If you want to insult Calvinists you'll have to find one to insult.

Predestination and election is not unto salvation but unto the church. I do not know the eternal destiny of those outside the church nor do YOU, nor did Calvin.

He ASSUMED they were to be damned and you hate him for that but YOU have made exactly the same assumption.

I preach that when God comes to judge He will judge with equity, fairness. And I believe in the wider mercy.

 

[Grailhunter]

You blame Calvin but here you are asaying the same mistake ... where is there any scripture that says God chose anybody for damnation? it is an assumption based upon human wisdom.

Where is there any scripture which says only the church will be saved? what about those who knew not the law who did by nature what the law required?

First off, I have given you an opportunity to explain your definition of predestination and you have not. So criticizing others for going this the common definition means what?

Secondly being a good person does not lead to salvation, if so Christ would not have needed to die on the Cross.
There was no process of salvation in the OT. The Israelites were not threatened with Hell for being disobedient or offered Heaven for being obedient.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Okay now you're not making any sense...getting back to freewill...we are to choose for ourselves which master we will serve. The decision is made in our mind...but it is the heart that must be changed.
Psalm 51:10
Create in me a clean heart, Oh Lord, and renew a right spirit within me.

If we had freewill we would choose to serve no master at all, the word serve here cancels out freewill.

We cannot even choose to not choose.

 

[Grailhunter]

If we had freewill we would choose to serve no master at all, the word serve here cancels out freewill.

We cannot even choose to not choose.

The Monster Puppet Master has spoken!

 

[Billy Evmur]

First off, I have given you an opportunity to explain your definition of predestination and you have not. So criticizing others for going this the common definition means what?

Secondly being a good person does not lead to salvation, if so Christ would not have needed to die on the Cross.
There was no process of salvation in the OT. The Israelites were not threatened with Hell for being disobedient or offered Heaven for being obedient.

There is nothing to define ... Catholics define doctrines. We believe what is written. "Whom He foreknew He also predestined ... chose ... called ... justified ... will glorify"

He foreknew us, before we were born, before the earth was formed God knew us ... there will be some who will come to Him crying "Lord, Lord" about whom He will say "I never knew you depart from Me ye workers of iniquity"

I don't know who they will be, looks like religious folks, that's for God to know and to judge.

We as the church are predestined to be a city set upon a hill what to damn people? to exclude them? no but to be a beacon of hope, a shelter to the lost and needy.

 

[Billy Evmur]

The Monster Puppet Master has spoken!

View attachment 13458

ok not going to respond to your rubbish anymore.

 

[Grailhunter]

ok not going to respond to your rubbish anymore.

Trying to get you to be honest....such a horrible thing!
When truth and honesty is your enemy, you know you are on the wrong side of the line.
Rubbish! What you are pandering here is the worst kind of trash!

 

[Grailhunter]

If you want to insult Calvinists you'll have to find one to insult.

Predestination and election is not unto salvation but unto the church. I do not know the eternal destiny of those outside the church nor do YOU, nor did Calvin.

He ASSUMED they were to be damned and you hate him for that but YOU have made exactly the same assumption.

I preach that when God comes to judge He will judge with equity, fairness. And I believe in the wider mercy.

....judge with equity, fairness...mercy! Hogwash!

Judgment Day! According to predestination all that was decided before creation......
How and why would you be rewarded for the good things you were forced to do by God?
How and why would you be punished for doing the bad things you forced to do by God?
Fair? Oh gosh! What you propose is not only evil, blasphemy against God, but it just does not make any sense.
You may not like my questions lol wait until Judgment Day....Christ will have some questions for you.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Free will deniers make no sense.

You come on here, trying to *convince* others to leave an idea you disagree with. Except, if your idea nobody-has-freewill beliefs are correct, then nobody can change their ideas-- God can only force the change. So why come on here preaching? Wouldn't your time be better spent asking God to force more people to follow him?

I haven't said man does not have a will, but it is not free. His will is in bondage and following it will lead him into bondage.

God changed Saul of Tarsus' mind rather forcefully.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Curious . . . how can a person have free will if they're controlled by something, or someone, other than themselves?

Romans 8:5-9 NLT - "Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will. That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God. But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"

The only way to have True free will is if we're NOT controlled by either the Mind of Satan or the Mind of Christ. As far as I can Biblically see, there is no in-between . . . ever, unless we're going to consider Adam and Eve as being the only two that were not controlled by the Mind of Satan or the Mind of Christ prior to their sinning. These are the only two people who know what it feels like to first be controlled by the Mind of Satan, and were likely the first to be lifted of the Curse, and possess the Mind of Christ . . . one being led by the Spirit.

What? The Holy men and women had the Spirit of Christ WITHIN them? Well, that's what Peter says . . . 1 Peter 1:10-11 NLT - "This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you. They wondered what time or situation the Spirit of Christ within them was talking about when he told them in advance about Christ's suffering and his great glory afterward."

totally.

 

[Renniks]

You blame Calvin but here you are asaying the same mistake ... where is there any scripture that says God chose anybody for damnation? it is an assumption based upon human wisdom.

Where is there any scripture which says only the church will be saved? what about those who knew not the law who did by nature what the law required?

Um...it's logic. You can't have individually chosen for salvation without others chosen for hell.

 

[Renniks]

so we are saved not as a free gift but on account of good works which we will do?

Why do you keep making stuff up I never said?

 

[Billy Evmur]

No I didn't say that. Knowledge isn't causation. And where's it say God plans everything in our lives?

What I said was that God choose for there to be a group that would do good works. We enter that group when we believe. God doesn't pick us like picking people for his baseball team. He's not a respecter of persons. He desires the salvation of all.

Pardon me if I misunderstood you. Here you say God chose there to be a group that would do good works