So what's so new about the new Covenant, and is it better, really?

[Brakelite]

Yes but even the unbeliever can not keep the law it’s why they need Christ

even so the law has fulfilled its purpose in the believer, thus is no longer needed

Even the unbeliever can't keep the law? Which is why they need Christ? So very true. What of the believer? Can be keep the law because he has Christ?

Matthew 23:23

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

So obedience is good, and ought always to be done, but there are more important aspects of life in Christ, as Jesus put it ‘weightier matters of the law’, which have a greater priority. Love, mercy, faith, justice. That Jesus said they are a part of the law is significant. There are those who claim the law was nailed to the cross: they have to reconcile the fact that love, justice, and mercy, (that is the gospel) , is part and parcel of that very law which they claim is of no further relevance to the Christian.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Unfortunately the damage that you are causing in fighting against the true gospel of Jesus Christ may be irreparable. Someone may believe that I really am preaching a false and perverted gospel and not be saved because they failed to receive the gospel.

So, I am not going to take your sin upon myself in that you have deterred certain people from believing the gospel as I preach it. You are going to have to pay the consequences of that before the Lord.

If you can somehow repair that damage by realizing that I am preaching the truth and by then getting behind my preaching so that those people might be saved, then maybe you won't have to pay the consequences for your sin.

But I want to assure you that there is no respect of persons in judgment (Romans 2:11, Colossians 3:25).

So, the fact that you think that you won't be judged because of your "professed" faith in Christ is not going to help you.

You will indeed stand before the judgment seat of Christ so that you can give account of everything you did in the body, whether good or evil (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 14:10-12).

What you say means nothing.....what I say means nothing.....anybody here is free to read Galatians to discover who teaches Pauls Gospel with no Additions and who preaches it “ with” Additions , thus being one who “ falls from Grace”.......
All I can do is proclaim it.....it is up to God to “ open the Heart” to the reception or rejection of it .....learn from the story of “ Lydia, the Seller Of purple”.....Acts 16..... Then concentrate on the Fifth chapter of Galatians to learn exactly who it is that “ falls from Grace”.......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It seems that some people will always have a beef with the evangelist who preaches the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ; misunderstanding their preaching as being "leaven" or "adding law to gospel" when in all reality what the evangelist is doing is that he is preaching the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ.

This is where your misunderstanding of me and false judgment of me lies.


You are unbelievable....don’t you ever read my posts...this is exactly what I have been saying forever...and you have the Gaul to try and turn it on me....
This is not the problem and you KNOW it...... Unless you are incredibly stupid! I can barely believe you are serious about this ! I have said a thousand times that the Main purpose of the Law is to lead one to Christ....I hope everybody preaches that Truth every day and anything that goes along with it! That ain’t what I refer to as “ Leaven” and Inam calling you out as a Liar! You CAN NOT be that Stupid!
Your “LEAVEN” as I have said COUNTLESS times is ADDING to the Gospel , Repeatedly insisting that even though the Gospel is “essential” for Salvation .....it just ain’t “adequate”, by itself , for that Salvation.....WE must do something, you say.......WE must “ help out” the Blood Of Jesus , which was supposed to be a “ one time, complete payment for sins” .....According to your False, added-to Gospel , we have to be a type of “ Co-Savior”, sharing in the Glory that belongs to Christ alone by making sure we have Repented Of all of our sins before we die........
I say “ Jesus Saves.” You say, “Of course Jesus Saves—- BUT”........
That “ BUT” makes you a Contender to “Fall from Grace” .....that False Addition to the Gospel is your Leaven ....it is our point of disagreement , and you had better pray to God that “ falling from Grace “—— as you are—- is not a cause for Damnation......
If you “ Fall” for Gospel Additions , that is bad enough—— if you TEACH those Gospel Additions, you are Damned .....no debate.....Gal1:8....
Prove me wrong.....using Chapter and verse only .....and try to be an HONEST debater —- stop trying to turn the tables on the things I have been saying for years.....you know what our debate about Leaven is all about and you KNOW it ain’t about the Law being used as a Schoolmaster.....Everybody here knows that is the Doctrine I put forward and they know what your Gospel Addition is—— do you think the people that keep up with these debates are Stupid? You have insulted everybody here with your little “ Ruse”...... people with brains can see clean through you....you should be ashamed of yourself with this phony deception of yours......I thought better of you.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I appeal to you that you would not fight against what I am preaching any more. For in doing so, you are not helping people to come to the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour. You are in fact hindering them.

I think exactly the same thing about you .....so now what ?

 

[justbyfaith]

What you say means nothing.....what I say means nothing.....anybody here is free to read Galatians to discover who teaches Pauls Gospel with no Additions and who preaches it “ with” Additions , thus being one who “ falls from Grace”.......
All I can do is proclaim it.....it is up to God to “ open the Heart” to the reception or rejection of it .....learn from the story of “ Lydia, the Seller Of purple”.....Acts 16..... Then concentrate on the Fifth chapter of Galatians to learn exactly who it is that “ falls from Grace”.......

True...but I think that you have been ignoring a certain passage in Galatians (even in the fifth chapter) which says that those who practice the works of the flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God...which at the very least implies that in order to inherit God's kingdom, a man must repent of operating in the works of the flesh...since we find in Ephesians 2:1 that we are born dead in trespasses and sins and therefore we begin our lives walking in the flesh.

Repeatedly insisting that even though the Gospel is “essential” for Salvation .....it just ain’t “adequate”, by itself , for that Salvation.....WE must do something, you say.......WE must “ help out” the Blood Of Jesus ,

Use the quote feature to bring up any post where I have said that we need to "help out" the blood of Jesus...

I will say that the blood of Jesus does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

The next part may get you...we are taught in churches by the best teachers that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are a gentleman...

And therefore He is not going to do that work of sanctification within you against your will.

Rom 6:22, But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

...According to your False, added-to Gospel , we have to be a type of “ Co-Savior”, sharing in the Glory that belongs to Christ alone by making sure we have Repented Of all of our sins before we die...

That is basically a false argument. You appeal to the glory of Christ in order to deny that He requires you to be holy as He is holy. That God does in fact require you to become holy is evident in the following.

1Pe 1:13, Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14, As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15, But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16, Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17, And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18, Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19, But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

I say “ Jesus Saves.” You say, “Of course Jesus Saves—- BUT”...

Explain to us all what is the BUT that I add to the idea that Jesus saves.

I do not explain the salvation of Jesus by adding a BUT...I add to the equation the true teaching of what it is that Jesus saves us from...

Mat 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Prove me wrong.....using Chapter and verse only .....and try to be an HONEST debater —- stop trying to turn the tables on the things I have been saying for years.....you know what our debate about Leaven is all about and you KNOW it ain’t about the Law being used as a Schoolmaster.....Everybody here knows that is the Doctrine I put forward

My point is that you don't acknowledge that my preaching of the law is intended to be a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (as the remedy for a sinful lifestyle (John 8:31-36)).

You may agree that the law is intended to be a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ...however you don't preach the law. Does that not indicate that you are not intending to lead men to Christ through the venue of preaching the schoolmaster?

and they know what your Gospel Addition is—— do you think the people that keep up with these debates are Stupid? You have insulted everybody here with your little “ Ruse”...... people with brains can see clean through you....you should be ashamed of yourself with this phony deception of yours......I thought better of you.....

The people who are really paying attention do absolutely know that I am preaching the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ...and that I am not adding "leaven" to the gospel.

I think exactly the same thing about you .....so now what ?

You simply need to repent.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Blood Bought 1953,

In your opinion, does coming to Christ mean that you resign to the fact that you are a sinner and are going to sin?

Does it mean that you give up on trying to become holy?

That you make the decision that you are just going to be a sinner for the rest of your life?
.
.
.
I would say that if this is the case, the Christ that you are turning to is not the holy God of the Bible; but is more like satan in his character...

For if being saved means that you repent of every effort to live a life that is pleasing to the Lord,

In becoming saved you would be making a commitment to satan instead of God.

Because your salvation would be a resolution that you are going to be a sinner for the rest of your life.

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think exactly the same thing about you .....so now what ?

I also am not fighting against what you preach; and neither am I calling your gospel FALSE and PERVERTED. I am not fighting against the gospel as you preach it and therefore I am not hindering your gospel from being believed by those who would desire to partake of the wine that you have mingled.

I also have mingled some wine for consumption...and it may be that because you are an old wineskin, to partake of the wine that I offer might cause you to burst open; because what I am offering is new wine that is very much like the old.

For I asked the Lord to give me wine that is very much like the old and that it would be like what is spoken of in John 2....the best wine saved for last (though it be new; and though Jesus said that no one who partakes of old wine immediately desires new for he says that "the old is better")...for those who would partake of it.

You may in fact have an older version of wine that is good for those who exist as old wineskins.

My doctrine is for new wineskins who are able to partake of the wine that I offer without being burst open in the midst because they are not old wineskins; that would burst open when the wine expands within them because they have already been expanded by wine that was once new but became old within them.

Sorry if I am talking in parables...if you are of the "uncommon" type then you get what I am saying.

 

[justbyfaith]

Phl 1:6, Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 11:29, By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

If there is anything that we can learn from these three passages it is that there is a difference between faith and presumption.

One is a confidence in the Lord that He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.

The other has to do with being highminded and not considering that the Lord reserves the right to be severe with you and that He may even cut you off if you don't continue in His goodness.

The Israelites passed through the Red sea as by dry land by faith--confidence in God.

The Egyptians thought that because the Israelites did it, they could too...and they attempted to go through the Red sea but ended up being drowned. They did not have faith but presumption...and as the result they could not do what the Israelites did by faith; although they tried.

We can enter in to the kingdom of heaven through faith in Jesus Christ...which has to do with confidence in the Lord that He is able to save you from your sins and to redeem you from all iniquity (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14).

But those who are presumptuous about their faith...thinking that they will enter into heaven because of a professed belief without any real change of life that comes as the result...will find that they did not enter into the kingdom of heaven on the dead faith that they thought would save them...what they had was not faith but presumption.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

First.....explain to me how Paul was NOT using a Mocking tone......

He's not teasing them. His intent is very specific. And it's not to get a laugh. Judaizers are all about the letter of the law. One slip of the knife in circumcision means they are to be banned from the Assembly (Deuteronomy 23:1). In which case their evil influence in the church would end, the point Paul is getting at!

But we who believe are not under the letter of the law. We are set free through the work of Christ from all those kinds of outward conditions and qualifications to be in covenant with God. Through Him the believer is already brought near to God through faith in God making the condition of their 'member' irrelevant, or if they even have one! Faith bypasses all those kinds of literal lawful requirements for being in covenant with God. Those requirements and distinctions and discriminations having been laid aside by the work of Christ. They're not needed anymore and so that wall of separation of the law has been demolished. God be forever praised!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

even so the law has fulfilled its purpose in the believer, thus is no longer needed

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 2 Timothy 3:16​

He's talking about the only scriptures they had at that time.....the law and the Prophets. The law and the Prophets are most certainly still needed in this New Covenant. They are extremely useful and needed.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In the law of Moses, your neighbor is your fellow Jew

in the law of Christ your neighbor included everyone you come across, even your enemy

No, the law said to love your enemy, too. Jesus was not ramping up the requirements of the law when he talked about that. That's not a New Covenant addition to what God expects of his people.

4If you encounter your enemy’s stray ox or donkey, you must return it to him.5If you see the donkey of one who hates you fallen under its load, do not leave it there; you must help him with it. Exodus 23:4-5 ​

He was showing the Pharisees, who thought they were such good law keepers, that they didn't keep the whole law as they thought they did. They were good at the externals—circumcision, Sabbath keeping, tithing, etc.—but Jesus was convicting them about the things of the heart that the law governed too (hatred, unforgiveness, coveting) that they did not obey, showing them to be the law breakers they accused everyone else of being. They were hypocrites!

With the exception of the teaching on divorce, we think of the Sermon on the Mount as a ramping up of the righteousness that God requires. But the truth is Jesus is simply pointing out to the Pharisees that they do not keep the whole law as they think they do. That's how our righteousness is to exceed that of the Pharisees. Faith not only secures a legal declaration of righteousness but faith also upholds ALL the law, including laws governing the inside of the cup stuff...covetousness, lust, hatred, grudges, etc....the things the Pharisees didn't do so well in. They weren't as law abiding as they thought they were. Our righteousness has to exceed that.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
As I said The Christian is not under the law, that is, the codified body of laws, the law of Moses, so he can’t be said to violate it nor is governed by it.

You don’t seem to get that.

Maybe you're the one who doesn't get it.

James 2:8-9
8If you really fulfill the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”c you are doing well. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.​

The law about favoritism he is referring to is Leviticus 19:15. When you show favoritism you sin and are convicted by Leviticus 19:15 as a transgressor.

But don't misunderstand. I'm in no way saying we are 'under' the law of Moses. For all that means the believer is not 'under' the law, he upholds it.

I am a Christian, and in the new covenant with God. I am not under the old covenant and old covenant laws. I am under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. If there is a law that governs over me, it is the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. If there is a law that I would be violating, it is the law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. If there is a law that convicts me of sin, it is the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.If there is a law that I would be judged by, it is the Law of Christ, not the law of Moses. If there is a law that I shall walk according to, it is the Law of Christ, not the law of Moses. If there is a law that would be for my atonement, it is the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.

Tong
R1904

 

[justbyfaith]

I am under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.

You are under the law of Moses to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 2 Timothy 3:16​

He's talking about the only scriptures they had at that time.....the law and the Prophets. The law and the Prophets are most certainly still needed in this New Covenant. They are extremely useful and needed.

So what part of the schoolmaster do you need?

Why would you want to relate to God as a non believer needing to be trained by the law and not a believer?

While we can learn by studying it. to see how it showed our plight against God and Gods salvation, but Following it in any way would take it out of context.

We need to follow the law of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

We need to follow the law of Christ.

You are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21).

 

[justbyfaith]

So what part of the schoolmaster do you need?

Why would you want to relate to God as a non believer needing to be trained by the law and not a believer?

While we can learn by studying it. to see how it showed our plight against God and Gods salvation, but Following it in any way would take it out of context.

We need to follow the law of Christ.

If we are no longer under the schoolmaster, it is because we have been fully trained by him.

That means that all the lessons that we learned from the law will be retained by us when we begin to walk in freedom from the law and its condemnation; and that includes the lessons of obeying the commandments; which we will perform automatically as the result of having been fully trained by the law.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, the law said to love your enemy, too. Jesus was not ramping up the requirements of the law when he talked about that. That's not a New Covenant addition to what God expects of his people.

4If you encounter your enemy’s stray ox or donkey, you must return it to him.5If you see the donkey of one who hates you fallen under its load, do not leave it there; you must help him with it. Exodus 23:4-5 ​

He was showing the Pharisees, who thought they were such good law keepers, that they didn't keep the whole law as they thought they did. They were good at the externals—circumcision, Sabbath keeping, tithing, etc.—but Jesus was convicting them about the things of the heart that the law governed too (hatred, unforgiveness, coveting) that they did not obey, showing them to be the law breakers they accused everyone else of being. They were hypocrites!

With the exception of the teaching on divorce, we think of the Sermon on the Mount as a ramping up of the righteousness that God requires. But the truth is Jesus is simply pointing out to the Pharisees that they do not keep the whole law as they think they do. That's how our righteousness is to exceed that of the Pharisees. Faith not only secures a legal declaration of righteousness but faith also upholds ALL the law, including laws governing the inside of the cup stuff...covetousness, lust, hatred, grudges, etc....the things the Pharisees didn't do so well in. They weren't as law abiding as they thought they were. Our righteousness has to exceed that.

the sermon on the mount proves how weak the law is.

As it proves one can follow the letter of the law. Yet still be guilty of the law, and be like the pharisees thinking they were ok because they never broke the law. (and many people today who also think they are sinless because they too do not break the law)

Thats why it is insufficient as a means of sanctification.

It was not created for that purpose.

Paul gave us the purpose of the law. and why it was given.

Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.?.....22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

We should take paul at his word. A law made to do this, Can not do more. it can only do what it was designed to do.

 

[Tong2020]

It should be obvious, @Tong2020, that in Hebrews 8:8-10 specifically, the Old Testament law is written on the hearts and in the minds of those who are alive under the New Covenant.

Maybe address that passage.

Other passages that address this issue are Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5.

Romans 8:7 applies to Gentiles as well as Jews and is in conjunction with Hebrews 8:8-10. So does Romans 8:4.

If you want to make a distinction between the law of Moses and the law of Christ, the law of Christ is more burdensome and the only reason why His yoke is easy and His burden is light is because we have the Holy Spirit. The law of Moses is included in the law of Christ (Matthew 5:17-20) and the law of Christ (Matthew 5-7) brings the law of Moses down to the nitty gritty in addressing heart issues where the law of Moses only addresses what is external.

<<<the Old Testament law is written on the hearts and in the minds of those who are alive under the New Covenant.>>>

Not at all. That’s just your take of the passage. In fact, I am pretty sure, you would even contradict your own statement there.

<<<the law of Christ is more burdensome and the only reason why His yoke is easy and His burden is light is because we have the Holy Spirit>>>

The law of Christ more burdensome? Is that how you view the law of Christ? That would make Jesus to have not told the truth when He said His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

Tong
R1905

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am a Christian, and in the new covenant with God. I am not under the old covenant and old covenant laws. I am under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. If there is a law that governs over me, it is the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. If there is a law that I would be violating, it is the law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. If there is a law that convicts me of sin, it is the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.If there is a law that I would be judged by, it is the Law of Christ, not the law of Moses. If there is a law that I shall walk according to, it is the Law of Christ, not the law of Moses.

Call it what you want, it's still the law of Moses.....

8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” a you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. James 2:8-9
​

The important thing is that you are upholding the law by your faith, whatever name you want to refer to that law as.

 

[Tong2020]

If we are no longer under the schoolmaster, it is because we have been fully trained by him.

That means that all the lessons that we learned from the law will be retained by us when we begin to walk in freedom from the law and its condemnation; and that includes the lessons of obeying the commandments; which we will perform automatically as the result of having been fully trained by the law.

Only the Jews or those of the circumcision were under the schoolmaster. The rest were not. Any Jew or those of the circumcision, when they are converted and are led to Christ, to faith in Him, are no longer under the schoolmaster.

Tong
R1906