Renniks
Well-Known Member
It's not the same thing. Asking a dead person to pray for you isn't biblical. Talking to the dead is forbidden.No, but asking someone to pray for you is...
Peace!
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It's not the same thing. Asking a dead person to pray for you isn't biblical. Talking to the dead is forbidden.No, but asking someone to pray for you is...
Peace!
If you were to simply talk with Mary, the mother of Jesus, how is that turning to a medium or necromancer? Was she... or is she a medium or necromancer?The topic is praying to Mary. Praying for someone is not praying to someone. Of course, I intercede for others in prayer. Praying for or with a dead person? Where is that in scripture? What need does someone who has already passed on have for me to pray for them? Where are we told to ask dead people to pray for us?
What does scripture say on the topic?
Leviticus 19:31
“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.
So again my question, who here has used a medium [a psychic medium] to talk with Mary? Looks to me like some people have been speaking with her directly. Was Mary a devil? Was Mary, herself a medium? Was Mary ever depicted in scripture as anything but a woman of faith in God? Why would you presume that anyone who speaks with her directly is out of God's will? Do you know every heart as well as God?1 Chronicles 10:13-14
So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the Lord in that he did not keep the command of the Lord, and also consulted a medium, seeking guidance. He did not seek guidance from the Lord. Therefore the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse.
Again you are presuming a person is going through Mary to God instead of through Jesus. If someone is doing that, of course they would be in error, but again why do you presume that. Over 50 years ago I was a devout Catholic and I never did that. Perhaps some do, but are they following God or even the precepts of the Catholic Church when they do that? Are you the judge of them? Am I?1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
That's exactly what Catholics do. I've listened to thier prayers.Again you are presuming a person is going through Mary to God instead of through Jesus. If someone is doing that, of course they would be in error, but again why do you presume that. Over 50 years ago I was a devout Catholic and I never did that. Perhaps some do, but are they following God or ever the precepts of the Catholic Church when they do that? Are you the judge of them? Am I?
You are missing my point. I know that some Catholics are in error as I know that I have never been in any Protestant church where some people were not in error. I also know that I myself as recently as yesterday and perhaps even today have been in error.That's exactly what Catholics do. I've listened to thier prayers.
If I talk to my departed mother, that's not praying. Because my Mom isn't an all powerful being capable of granting my requests. If I ask her for things, like the way I ask God to intervene in someone's life for example, that would be wrong. She is a human soul, with no such power.
Look what beginning Catholics are told:
"Like all prayers to Saints, our prayers to Virgin Mary rely on the Saints’ special power to intercede for us before Christ and the Father. But since Mary has a unique role in salvation, and a unique relationship to the Trinity, our prayers to the Blessed Virgin also rely on her special power of intercession."
Total hogwash! Mary has no role in our salvation. She isn't somehow part of the trinity either.
I'm always puzzled by those who fear honouring Mary.
These verses ain't about correcting bad doctrine. It's about Nit picking other Christians sins. If we never can come out and say "this is just plain wrong." We will fall into all kinds of errors and ultimately lose our faith by believing lies. I'm not saying who is or who isn't a believer because they have bad doctrine and wrong practices. So I'm not judging their souls... that's God's job. But it's our responsibility to point out errors in doctrine. And that's kind of what forums are for.Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matt 7:1-5
But it's our responsibility to point out errors in doctrine.????These verses ain't about correcting bad doctrine. It's about Nit picking other Christians sins. If we never can come out and say "this is just plain wrong." We will fall into all kinds of errors and ultimately lose our faith by believing lies. I'm not saying who is or who isn't a believer because they have bad doctrine and wrong practices. So I'm not judging their souls... that's God's job. But it's our responsibility to point out errors in doctrine. And that's kind of what forums are for.
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ."But it's our responsibility to point out errors in doctrine.????
Is it like a one legged man in a kicking contest or a one armed man in a row boat race?
What exactly is bad doctrine? Do you suppose that having all of the right doctrines in place in our minds will save our souls? Is our salvation dependent on our theology? Will we be given a theology test at the end our our course here to determine whether or not we will be with God always?These verses ain't about correcting bad doctrine. It's about Nit picking other Christians sins. If we never can come out and say "this is just plain wrong." We will fall into all kinds of errors and ultimately lose our faith by believing lies. I'm not saying who is or who isn't a believer because they have bad doctrine and wrong practices. So I'm not judging their souls... that's God's job. But it's our responsibility to point out errors in doctrine. And that's kind of what forums are for.
Of course it is. If we follow another gospel, as Paul says, we are condemned. Many people think they have Jesus, but they don't have the biblical Jesus.What exactly is bad doctrine? Do you suppose that having all of the right doctrines in place in our minds will save our souls? Is our salvation dependent on our theology?
What happens to a man who cannot read the Bible? Is he lost due to his lack? Is it impossible or a man to be saved who has no access to a written Bible? How does one recognize the Real Jesus?Of course it is. If we follow another gospel, as Paul says, we are condemned. Many people think they have Jesus, but they don't have the biblical Jesus.
Yes, some doctrines may be important. But consider two students of the scriptures, one an uneducated man with a below average I.Q. who simply cannot with his mind alone grasp what someone else insists is very important from the scriptures, and the other who insists is a well educated man with an above average I.Q. Which one is more likely to be saved? Remember also that God is no respecter of persons!That's not saying we can't be in error at all, but certain doctrines are extremely important.
Can I believe Jesus was just a good man? Is that going to save me?
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ."
Not if they don't believe Jesus is God. That's a basic, essential belief, according to Jesus. Now if God decides to let them in, that's up to him. But you might as well say all Buddhists are saved, because they try to follow a path of living well.Do you believe that no Unitarians... who from what I understand believe just that... will be saved?
Um ..all I did was quote the Bible. If that offends you, I don't know what to say.Cool your jets.
Well you have decided what is essential to God. Be careful with that!Not if they don't believe Jesus is God. That's a basic, essential belief, according to Jesus. Now if God decides to let them in, that's up to him. But you might as well say all Buddhists are saved, because they try to follow a path of living well.
The Bible is clear that Mary’s unique position as the mother of Jesus did not give her any more access to God than another believer in Christ is given. Therefore, Mary is not worthy of receiving prayers from Christians. Jesus addressed this in Luke 11 by emphasizing that it’s more blessed to be a follower of Christ than to be the mother of Christ.
Christians have always been amazed and interested in Mary, the mother of Jesus. This is understandable because her role in God’s redemption plan is unlike that of anyone else. She carried the Son of God in her womb, gave birth to him, nursed him as an infant, and (with her husband, Joseph) nurtured him through his childhood.
Mary is worthy of admiration due to her selflessness, courage, and faith in God. Especially in her time, to be unwed and pregnant was extremely shameful and sometimes even resulted in serious punishment. Yet she faithful fully obeyed when God called her. Her response to the angel’s announcement was to rejoice in song – “My soul glorifies the Lord” (Luke 1:46-55).