It's not the same thing. Asking a dead person to pray for you isn't biblical. Talking to the dead is forbidden.
Is it Okay for Christians to Pray to Mary?
- Thread starter tsr
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If you were to simply talk with Mary, the mother of Jesus, how is that turning to a medium or necromancer? Was she... or is she a medium or necromancer?
My old pastor, now age 95 has served God all of his natural life. He was married to the same woman for 66 years. She died in 2012. Periodically he visits her grave site and in addition to talking to God, I believe that he also talks to her. She was a wonderful woman who served God faithfully and blessed people continuously even when lying in severe pain on her death bed. She was perhaps the best piano player I have ever heard playing always before God using the gift God had given her. She supported her husband continously over the years in his ministry... Is it wrong for the man to talk to her? What is the difference between talking to a person and praying?
See the word, "pray" from James 5:16...
devhsiß Deesis (deh'-ay-sis);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 1162
- need, indigence, want, privation, penury
- a seeking, asking, entreating, entreaty to God or to man
So again my question, who here has used a medium [a psychic medium] to talk with Mary? Looks to me like some people have been speaking with her directly. Was Mary a devil? Was Mary, herself a medium? Was Mary ever depicted in scripture as anything but a woman of faith in God? Why would you presume that anyone who speaks with her directly is out of God's will? Do you know every heart as well as God?
Again you are presuming a person is going through Mary to God instead of through Jesus. If someone is doing that, of course they would be in error, but again why do you presume that. Over 50 years ago I was a devout Catholic and I never did that. Perhaps some do, but are they following God or even the precepts of the Catholic Church when they do that? Are you the judge of them? Am I?
Give God the glory and move on following Him rather than chasing what you believe is someone else's error.
Last edited:
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Is it ok for Christians to pray to Mary?
If you are a Protestant fundamentalist, it is somewhere between a rhetorical question and a affirmation of fundamentalist beliefs. Sticking with the Bible there are a few things we do not need to do or should do....
No indication that we should pray to, or worship Miriam.
No indication that weddings are required.
No push to get married and have a family.
No reason to take into consideration any Christian history after the close of the Bible. And that definitely includes any decision by the ECF's or the Ecumenical Councils.
From there it is a matter of interpreting all the static perspective of the scriptures that occurred after the 1500's. And that perspective can be endless.
If you are not a fundamentalist then there is a lot more to consider.
If you are a Protestant fundamentalist, it is somewhere between a rhetorical question and a affirmation of fundamentalist beliefs. Sticking with the Bible there are a few things we do not need to do or should do....
No indication that we should pray to, or worship Miriam.
No indication that weddings are required.
No push to get married and have a family.
No reason to take into consideration any Christian history after the close of the Bible. And that definitely includes any decision by the ECF's or the Ecumenical Councils.
From there it is a matter of interpreting all the static perspective of the scriptures that occurred after the 1500's. And that perspective can be endless.
If you are not a fundamentalist then there is a lot more to consider.
That's exactly what Catholics do. I've listened to thier prayers.
If I talk to my departed mother, that's not praying. Because my Mom isn't an all powerful being capable of granting my requests. If I ask her for things, like the way I ask God to intervene in someone's life for example, that would be wrong. She is a human soul, with no such power.
Look what beginning Catholics are told:
"Like all prayers to Saints, our prayers to Virgin Mary rely on the Saints’ special power to intercede for us before Christ and the Father. But since Mary has a unique role in salvation, and a unique relationship to the Trinity, our prayers to the Blessed Virgin also rely on her special power of intercession."
Total hogwash! Mary has no role in our salvation. She isn't somehow part of the trinity either.
You are missing my point. I know that some Catholics are in error as I know that I have never been in any Protestant church where some people were not in error. I also know that I myself as recently as yesterday and perhaps even today have been in error.
We can do as some people do and condemn them all because they do wrong things at times, but be sure you condemn all of the Protestant churches as well. We could do like some and not attend any physical church or become a regular member of them because they all are in error in a some measure, but where could we go where there were no mistakes being made, no sins being committed? Could I simply stay alone with me and God alone and be certain that I would never commit any sin and as some do claiming that I am saved and God will not see my errors [sins]? But I won't do that!
You do what you believe you must, but consider well the scripture reads and decide also if any of it might apply to you...
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matt 7:1-5
God does use us to do His work, but He really does not need us, so we should be very careful about plunging ahead as if He could not accomplish what needs to be accomplished without us.
"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11
As to condemnation I would simply leave it alone.
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:18-19
"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That's because you fail to discern honour from worship.
I'll honor Mary all day long but I worship only God, aka the Father.
These verses ain't about correcting bad doctrine. It's about Nit picking other Christians sins. If we never can come out and say "this is just plain wrong." We will fall into all kinds of errors and ultimately lose our faith by believing lies. I'm not saying who is or who isn't a believer because they have bad doctrine and wrong practices. So I'm not judging their souls... that's God's job. But it's our responsibility to point out errors in doctrine. And that's kind of what forums are for.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
But it's our responsibility to point out errors in doctrine.????
Is it like a one legged man in a kicking contest or a one armed man in a row boat race?
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ."
Ask Mary? No
Earthly men, face to face with Jesus (in His Prepared Earthly Alive Body), asked Jesus many things.
Jesus was clear...when He departed this Earth, TO PRAY (Spiritual Asking communication) "TO" the Father "IN" Jesus' "NAME", for an Answer.
John 16:
[23] And in that day ye shall me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Jesus never taught mankind to Pray (spiritual asking communication) TO other mankind;
Glory to God,
Taken
Earthly men, face to face with Jesus (in His Prepared Earthly Alive Body), asked Jesus many things.
Jesus was clear...when He departed this Earth, TO PRAY (Spiritual Asking communication) "TO" the Father "IN" Jesus' "NAME", for an Answer.
John 16:
[23] And in that day ye shall me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Jesus never taught mankind to Pray (spiritual asking communication) TO other mankind;
Glory to God,
Taken
Mantis
Well-Known Member
the way I read it is you pray directly to the father through Jesus. Why would you want to do it any other way?
What exactly is bad doctrine? Do you suppose that having all of the right doctrines in place in our minds will save our souls? Is our salvation dependent on our theology? Will we be given a theology test at the end our our course here to determine whether or not we will be with God always?
My old friend @bbyrd009 might have asked here the question, What is Absolute Truth [AT]? I believe that there are ATs, but what man among us is able to state them all without hesitation or doubt? Not me!
What happens then if we teach as an AT something which is not? Might we not find ourselves in trouble with God for our presumption?
Discussion is fine so long as it really is discussion rather than one or more people teaching their own ATs. But then as Paul quoted it from the OT:
"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Rom 3:4
Is any part of what you teach or what I teach... a lie?
Help us dear Lord!
How does one avoid believing lies? How about following the lead always of the Holy Ghost?
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
There it is but who does it always? Again Paul gives us seemingly impossible advice:
"Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice." Phil 4:4
"Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:17
"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
And Jesus agrees it is impossible for a man... but...
"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27
Of course it is. If we follow another gospel, as Paul says, we are condemned. Many people think they have Jesus, but they don't have the biblical Jesus.
That's not saying we can't be in error at all, but certain doctrines are extremely important.
Can I believe Jesus was just a good man? Is that going to save me?
What happens to a man who cannot read the Bible? Is he lost due to his lack? Is it impossible or a man to be saved who has no access to a written Bible? How does one recognize the Real Jesus?
There are a whole lot of churches [call them denominations or non-denominations] who do have access to Bibles but disagree on some points of doctrines based on their Bibles, which some would call essential. What is essential? Who decides?
Yes, some doctrines may be important. But consider two students of the scriptures, one an uneducated man with a below average I.Q. who simply cannot with his mind alone grasp what someone else insists is very important from the scriptures, and the other who insists is a well educated man with an above average I.Q. Which one is more likely to be saved? Remember also that God is no respecter of persons!
Then consider what Jesus meant here:
"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mark 19:23-24
Which of the two I described is likely to have the hardest time to enter into the kingdom of God?
Consider then what Paul said here:
"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12
And what Jesus said here:
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" Luke 12:48
Do you believe that no Unitarians... who from what I understand believe just that... will be saved? What if one or more of them are seeking first God's kingdom and righteousness as Jesus said here?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Cool your jets.
There are a lot of Protestant beliefs out there and independent appraisals of the Bible. Anyone of them can become fanatical.
So what I was getting at, was that you are in a target rich environment. And if you think yours is the only way then, your bubble of understand has shrunk to almost a helmet. Less to know, less to be an expert on.
Is not understanding the Gospel of Christ a distortion? Most of the time when Christ was speaking to someone in the Gospels he was speaking to Jews about Judaism. And Christians think that the answers He gave were answers to Christianity. Got to understand. The Jews were not coming to Him to question Him about being the Son of God or about believing in Him to be saved. Or even about going to heaven. All those conversions happened in private. Understanding is important.
As far as the fundamentalist approach to Miriam. There is no reason for someone that holds to fundamentalism to pray to Miriam.
Just like anyone that holds to a denomination, they are going to criticize each other. If you know history there were actually wars.
But most of the time there is no true fundamentalist, because they do want to reach over that fence and gather somethings that they like and feel are important, but are not biblical...they like weddings....but weddings come from Pagan rituals and are not required in the Bible. Then they use this non-biblical ritual to condemn others that are together and did not have a wedding.
Fundamentalists like the concept of the focus on the family....but that is not biblical...no NT push for getting married or having families. For very good reasons, but that is a different story. But still, whatever the reasons, for the "what's in the Bible only" crowd it is an insertion. I am multi-denominational and I take it on the cuff and find the humor in it. And yes I Pray to Miriam.
Last edited:
Not if they don't believe Jesus is God. That's a basic, essential belief, according to Jesus. Now if God decides to let them in, that's up to him. But you might as well say all Buddhists are saved, because they try to follow a path of living well.
Um ..all I did was quote the Bible. If that offends you, I don't know what to say.
Well you have decided what is essential to God. Be careful with that!
I strive to surrender myself and to follow as He leads me. For others I contribute when I can.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
