No authority!

[Ferris Bueller]

No - you responded but you didn't refute . . .

38John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone else driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.”39“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied. “For no one who performs a miracle in My name can turn around and speak evil of Me. 40For whoever is not against us is for us. Mark 9:38-40​

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm not sure how a thread on authority morphed into the Catholic-Protestant debate. I know there is this other guy, theefaith or something, that pushes along the same line you do, reading 'and their successors' into the Scriptural text and things of the like.

For me, the verse below is binding. Not sure how you insert your group as authoritative AGAINST the word of God? (No where is the authority of the collective).

But it is important that you understand this about headship: the Anointed One is the head of every man, the husband is the head of his wife, and God is the head of the Anointed.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (Voice)

Christ IS the Head of the Church (Col. 1:18). He gave HIS Authortity to the Apostes and His innnercircle, who were the first leaders of His Church. Make NO mistake - that leasdership IS successive - and it's not "against" the Word of God.

In Acts 1, we read that the Aposles and over 100 others gather to elect a successor for Judas. In verse 20, Peter quotes the Psalms when he says:
"Let another take his office."

The Greek word used here for "office" is "Episkopay" (Bishopric). Matthias, who was chosen was a successor to Judas - not a mere "replacement". Verse 20 makes it CLEAR that Judas held an "office" - a Bishopric.

As we read in the following verses - Jesus gave these first leaders of His Church SUPREME earthly Authority - that WHATEVER THEY DECLARED on earth would also be declared in Heaven. That whoever listened to or rejected THEM - listened to or reject HIM and the Father.

Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kepha), and upon this rock (Kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give YOU the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because Peter wouldn't let you do it. That's how. Think about it.

Your long succession of Popes bear no resemblance to Peter, the man from whom you are sure your Popes are spiritually descended from. We see no spiritual resemblance whatsoever between your Pope and the godly and humble man of scripture, Peter.

Another idiotic comparison.

We live 2 millenia from the time of Peter. Shaking hands, saying "Goodbye", kissing the Pope's ring, High-fiving - these are are ALL examples of customes that weren't around 2000 years ago. Popes didn't even HAVE rings 2000 years ago - it's a custom that came MUCH later. Popes USED to be martyred in the early centuries of the Church.

Popes didn't use toilets in Peter's time, either. I suppose YOU'D say that this is "decadent" and sinful . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So if the matter gets settled right here and nothing needs to be brought to the church this individual who sinned and who receives the forgiveness of the one he sinned against is not forgiven? That's not what Jesus said!

...if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” Matthew 18:19-20
​

The context here is forgiveness. We don't need no pope or no bishop to minister God's forgiveness to those who have sinned against us, and the sinner don't need no pope or no bishop to receive that forgiveness!

You're living in the old covenant. The old way of having to approach God through mortal men and carnal sacrifices was set aside because the Immortal Man and His heavenly Sacrifice has appeared making the old obsolete and not needed anymore. Get with the program! We's all in the ministry now!

WRONG.

The context of Matt. 18:15-18 is about Authority - not forgiveness. Forgiveness is the the side issue here.
Chapter 18 starts out with the disciples arguing about who is the greetest in the Kingdom of Heaven. After Jesus sets them straight about that with a lesson about temptation and a parable - He reminds them about final earthly Authority.

YOU keep telling me that I'm "living in the Old covenant."
Exegete John 20:21-23 for me:

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

38John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone else driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.”39“Do not stop him,” Jesus replied. “For no one who performs a miracle in My name can turn around and speak evil of Me. 40For whoever is not against us is for us. Mark 9:38-40​

Sooooo - how does this "refute" what I said about priestly powers?

I acknowledged that members of the Body have gifts, per 1 Cor. 12:27-31.
By the SAME token and by the SAME verses - NOT all have the same roles . . .

1 Cor. 12:28
And God has placed in the church FIRSTof all APOSTLES, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, THEN gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You conveniently left out verses 19 and 20.

Very dishonest of you...[/QUOTE]
How is that "dishonest"?

In verse 19-20, Jesus is referring to verses 15-16, where it talks about settling matters between 2 brothers.
It is NOT referring to verses 17-18, where He is talking about Church Authority.

Pay attention . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith said:

Very dishonest of you...

How is that "dishonest"?

It has to do with the fact that you omitted scripture from the equation that said what you were trying to refute with your statements.

You left it out because it defeated your purpose.

 

[marksman]

what hath light to do with darkness
Christ with belial
Truth with error
The one true church and demonic Protestant sects

whats KFC?

Why don't you tell us as you seem to know everything?

And KFC is short for Kentucky Fried Chicken.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That statement is as stupid as me tellig YOU that you're "wrong" about loving your wife.
How could possibly know that MY reason for kissing the Pope's ring would be "wrong"??

Think about it . . .

I know it to be wrong just as I know that having sex with children is wrong.

 

[Taken]

Christ IS the Head of the Church (Col. 1:18). He gave HIS Authortity to the Apostes and His innnercircle, who were the first leaders of His Church. Make NO mistake - that leasdership IS successive - and it's not "against" the Word of God.

In Acts 1, we read that the Aposles and over 100 others gather to elect a successor for Judas. In verse 20, Peter quotes the Psalms when he says:
"Let another take his office."

The Greek word used here for "office" is "Episkopay" (Bishopric). Matthias, who was chosen was a successor to Judas - not a mere "replacement". Verse 20 makes it CLEAR that Judas held an "office" - a Bishopric.

As we read in the following verses - Jesus gave these first leaders of His Church SUPREME earthly Authority - that WHATEVER THEY DECLARED on earth would also be declared in Heaven. That whoever listened to or rejected THEM - listened to or reject HIM and the Father.

Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kepha), and upon this rock (Kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give YOU the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Gee...what a Long post. LOL

 

[Taken]

Very dishonest of you...

How is that "dishonest"?

In verse 19-20, Jesus is referring to verses 15-16, where it talks about settling matters between 2 brothers.
It is NOT referring to verses 17-18, where He is talking about Church Authority.

Pay attention . . .[/QUOTE]

Funny...A pat derogatory comeback for everything...

"Your RANTING posts are too long...
You didn't post enough, you are DISHONEST.."

Cunning, but not unnoticed!

 

[Taken]

WRONG.

More of "your" fave...

Repeatedly you call people who disagree with you boldly WRONG.

But then say, Wrong can not possibly apply to you!

LOL.
There are reasons people routinely disagree with you...pride hinders you.

 

[Taken]

Christ IS the Head of the Church (Col. 1:18). He gave HIS Authortity to the Apostes and His innnercircle, who were the first leaders of His Church. Make NO mistake - that leasdership IS successive - and it's not "against" the Word of God.

In Acts 1, we read that the Aposles and over 100 others gather to elect a successor for Judas.

So often you miss the Big Picture.
Christ's Church...yes. Period.

Election of another TO fill a vacant Office.
Basic...yes.
Big Picture...the successor...a Jew.

Big Picture...you don't appear to comprehend the WHY a Jew.

 

[Taken]

Another idiotic comparison.

Your usual...opening to set a deragatory narrative, that only what you have to say MUST therefore be Right.

Cunning, but noticed.

Speaking of HONESTY...

Peter was a Jew.
Some Gentile's "adopting" and "making" Peter a Gentile "Pope" after his death, unbeknownst to Peter...
Is NOT a DISHONEST teaching? Hummm

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Another idiotic comparison.

We live 2 millenia from the time of Peter. Shaking hands, saying "Goodbye", kissing the Pope's ring, High-fiving - these are are ALL examples of customes that weren't around 2000 years ago. Popes didn't even HAVE rings 2000 years ago - it's a custom that came MUCH later. Popes USED to be martyred in the early centuries of the Church.

Popes didn't use toilets in Peter's time, either. I suppose YOU'D say that this is "decadent" and sinful . . .

Well, for one, I'm confident Peter did not wear a Papal Super Bowl Ring in the first place, lol. But if he did the instant you started to bow down to kiss his ring he would have stopped you right there. We know this from his encounter with Cornelius. Peter was humble. Popes are not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sooooo - how does this "refute" what I said about priestly powers?

I acknowledged that members of the Body have gifts, per 1 Cor. 12:27-31.
By the SAME token and by the SAME verses - NOT all have the same roles . . .

We all know some people are appointed to positions of leadership in the church. What we resist is your assertion that the Catholic church owns them all. And that they alone possess various powers and privileges.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOU keep telling me that I'm "living in the Old covenant."

You're living in a system of mortal priests that stand between the people and God. Jesus did away with that by becoming our High Priest. Everyone enters the presence of God through Him. We don't need your earthly priesthood to do that for us. Everyone gets everything they need directly from God themselves now. We're not reliant on a fallible and weak and temporary system of mortal priests anymore. We have a Perfect and Permanent High Priest and Sacrifice now that makes the carnal obsolete. That doesn't mean there aren't Apostles and Prophets and Elders. It means there is no longer an earthly priesthood. The Catholic church is lying to people by telling them you must come to God through them. There's not a shred of truth in that. Get with the new program!

 

[BreadOfLife]

It has to do with the fact that you omitted scripture from the equation that said what you were trying to refute with your statements.

You left it out because it defeated your purpose.

Did you even bother to READ post 1186??
Here it is again . . . ths time - pay attention:

In verse 19-20, Jesus is referring to verses 15-16, where it talks about settling matters between 2 brothers.
It is NOT referring to verses 17-18, where He is talking about Church Authority.

In other words, Einstein - it doesn't matter that I left out verses 19-20 because they were irrelevant to the point.
Good grief . . .

 

[theefaith]

I can't verify anything "For you".
You are asking my Belief.
Literal.

that’s why Christ founded a church to teach the truth jn 8:32

 

[theefaith]

Because of Gods Grace.
Same as He blesses anyone.

must be a reason a purpose

the purpose is to be the mother of our salvation

Lk 1:49 things
Immaculate conception of Mary
And the
Miraculous conception of Jesus