Who founded your church?

[Truther]

from hell fire!

no box is required
That’s just a custom
Confession is required

Confession to Jesus directly or through a sinful proxy?

 

[Marymog]

Well if I was calvinist, I would say the hard saying was that no one can come to the father unless drawn.
But I don't believe that's it.
And it wasn't JUST believing in him. It was WHAT he told them to believe.
What had Jesus said that they considered a “hard saying” (v.60)? Catholics say they were speaking of when He said they had to eat his flesh and drink His blood (v.56), but the Jesus' answer indicates otherwise. When He asked, “What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where He was before?” (v.62), it shows they were having trouble believing when He said He came down from heaven (v.58). He was saying, “If you see me go back to heaven where I came from, will you believe I came down from heaven?” They knew He was born in Bethlehem, and since they knew souls did not pre-exist, they knew He was saying He was God. And that’s what they found to be “a hard saying.” These disciples were following only because they tasted the bread he multiplied (8:26). Announcing He was God was too much for them. John once again emphasizes the Lord’s deity when he says He “knew in Himself” what they were saying (v.61)

When he said " eat my flesh" they flat out sneered at him.
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

It wasn't just the bread metaphor, although they may have been confused by it.

He put himself on the same level as Yahweh! To the Jews this was blasphemy. It was too much for those following because they thought he was going to set up an Earthly kingdom and defeat the Romans, and hey, maybe pass out the free bread that he could create every day!

What man taught you this? FIRE THEM...RUN AWAY FROM THEM!

Let’s keep it real. In Verse’s 48-58 He equates himself as the bread from heaven and to have eternal life we must eat this bread which is his body. In those verses he just told them MULTIPLE TIMES that they must eat his body and drink his blood. However you were taught that the difficult thing he said is that he came down from heaven?? Even though the ‘I came down from heaven as bread’ was the set up for eating him and how to eat him...as bread? And then he showed us at the Last Supper how to eat him....as bread!!!

Hear is your teaching put into a conversation of the Jews there that day:

Jew #1: Did you just hear what he said. That was difficult for me to hear. How about you?

Jew #2: I know, it was difficult for me to hear also. He’s that kid from Bethlehem. He couldn’t have come down from heaven!!!

Jew #1: No, Not that!! That wasn’t difficult to hear. It was difficult to hear that we had to eat his body and drink his blood. Gross....I’m walking away from this guy. He’s crazy.

Jew #2: Are you serious? You find that difficult to hear? That we have to eat him? What’s wrong with you. I have no problem with that. It’s difficult for me because I know he is lying and he couldn’t have come down from heaven because I know his mother. That is what I am struggling with.

Jew #1: Well I am not going to follow Him anymore if he wants me to eat him.

Jew #2: I’m not going to follow him anymore since I know his mother and He couldn’t have come down from heaven.

Can you see how what you were taught is questionable? Especially when you throw in all your presuppositions about how they knew souls don’t pre-exist. You then you go back MULTIPLE verseS before the bread of life discourse and bring up how they knew he was born in Bethlehem so how could he have come down from heaven.....Oh goodness. The men who taught you twisted Scripture so tight I can’t unscrew this for you in one post. You have some serious bible studying to do.

 

[theefaith]

Confession to Jesus directly or through a sinful proxy?

dogma:


205. The Church has received from Christ the power of remitting sins committed after Baptism.
206. By the Church’s Absolution sins are truly and immediately remitted.
207. The Church’s power to forgive sins extends to all sin without exception.
208. The exercise of the Church’s power to forgive sins is a judicial act.
209. The forgiveness of sins which takes place in the Tribunal of Penance is a true and proper
Sacrament, which is distinct from the Sacrament of Baptism.
210. Extra-sacramental justification is effected by perfect sorrow only when it is associated with
the desire for the Sacrament (votum sacramenti).
211. Contrition springing from the motive of fear is a morally good and supernatural act.
212. The Sacramental confession of sins is ordained by God and is necessary for salvation.
213. By virtue of Divine ordinance all grievous sins (mortal, serious) according to kind and
number, as well as those circumstances which alter their nature, are subject to the obligation
of confession.
214. The confession of venial sins is not necessary but is permitted and is useful.
215. All temporal punishments for sin are not always remitted by God with the guilt of sin and the
eternal punishment.
216. The priest has the right and the duty, according to the nature of the sins and the ability of the
penitent, to impose salutary and appropriate works of satisfaction.
217. Extra-sacramental penitential works, such as the performance of voluntary penitential
practices and the patient bearing of trials sent by God, possess satisfactory value.
218. The form of the Sacrament of Penance consists in the words of Absolution.
219. Absolution, in association with the acts of the penitent, effects the forgiveness of sins.
220. The principal effect of the Sacrament of Penance is the reconciliation of the sinner with God.
221. The Sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation to those who, after Baptism, fall into
grievous sin.
222. The sole possessors of the Church’s Power of Absolution are the bishops and priests.

 

[Truther]

dogma:


205. The Church has received from Christ the power of remitting sins committed after Baptism.
206. By the Church’s Absolution sins are truly and immediately remitted.
207. The Church’s power to forgive sins extends to all sin without exception.
208. The exercise of the Church’s power to forgive sins is a judicial act.
209. The forgiveness of sins which takes place in the Tribunal of Penance is a true and proper
Sacrament, which is distinct from the Sacrament of Baptism.
210. Extra-sacramental justification is effected by perfect sorrow only when it is associated with
the desire for the Sacrament (votum sacramenti).
211. Contrition springing from the motive of fear is a morally good and supernatural act.
212. The Sacramental confession of sins is ordained by God and is necessary for salvation.
213. By virtue of Divine ordinance all grievous sins (mortal, serious) according to kind and
number, as well as those circumstances which alter their nature, are subject to the obligation
of confession.
214. The confession of venial sins is not necessary but is permitted and is useful.
215. All temporal punishments for sin are not always remitted by God with the guilt of sin and the
eternal punishment.
216. The priest has the right and the duty, according to the nature of the sins and the ability of the
penitent, to impose salutary and appropriate works of satisfaction.
217. Extra-sacramental penitential works, such as the performance of voluntary penitential
practices and the patient bearing of trials sent by God, possess satisfactory value.
218. The form of the Sacrament of Penance consists in the words of Absolution.
219. Absolution, in association with the acts of the penitent, effects the forgiveness of sins.
220. The principal effect of the Sacrament of Penance is the reconciliation of the sinner with God.
221. The Sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation to those who, after Baptism, fall into
grievous sin.
222. The sole possessors of the Church’s Power of Absolution are the bishops and priests.

Egad!

Solid commentary.

Yikes!

 

[Marymog]

Confession to Jesus directly or through a sinful proxy?

Hey Truther,

I took a look at all of Scripture in regard to confession of sins and I ended up with just as many questions as answers. Maybe you can help me out.

Were the Apostles a sinful proxy even though they could bind and loosen sin? How can a sinful proxy bind and loosen sin? What are we to make of John 20:23?

What about confessing our sins to one another? Can we do that since we are all sinful proxies? James 5:16 says we can.

Thanks for your help...Mary

 

[theefaith]

Egad!

Solid commentary.

Yikes!

thee faith or de fide is the word of God!
Divine and catholic revelation

 

[Marymog]

Egad!

Solid commentary.

Yikes!

Help me out here Truther. What was posted by @theefaith is the teaching of The Church which has been around for a long time. So I think it’s pretty solid. Also, it’s not commentary. The teaching is based on Scripture and it is taught to over 1 billion people and has been taught to many more.

Isn’t what you or other Protestants on this forum say/write truly commentary since it is your own personal interpretation of Scripture that only you follow?

Curious Mary

 

[Renniks]

Can you see how what you were taught is questionable? Especially when you throw in all your presuppositions about how they knew souls don’t pre-exist. You then you go back MULTIPLE verseS before the bread of life discourse and bring up how they knew he was born in Bethlehem so how could he have come down from heaven.....Oh goodness. The men who taught you twisted Scripture so tight I can’t unscrew this for you in one post. You have some serious bible studying to do.

I came to this conclusion from reading the book. I never just read a few verses and leave the rest of the book out. I feel a lot of sects do that, especially the Catholics. You should read it without your Catholic suppositions. I'm sure they had problems with everything he said there, but the bread they knew about, from the Torah. Saying he was that bread equating himself with God? That's crazy! They knew this guy didn't come down from heaven. They knew his parents. Imagine someone you knew equating himself with God. You would scoff, too.

Now this is important:
John wrote to a primarily Greek-speaking Jewish audience, telling them he did so “in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through your faith in him you may have life” (John 20:31).
John uses the middle section of his book to focus on what Jesus claimed about himself (his “I am” statements) and how these claims connect to the prophecies and images associated with the promised Messiah.
Now, the bread metaphors the Jews understood to some extent from the passover. But when these metaphors are used to promise eternal life, and to make himself equal with Yahweh?
Jesus claims to be the yeast-less bread that comes from heaven. Yeast-less because he is without sin, and throughout the Scriptures and rabbinic teachings yeast was often connected to sin.

A sinless Rabbi? There's not just one hard saying here, it's all hard to believe. They were not ready to accept him as Messiah, bottom line. He was just Mary and Joseph's boy to them.

 

[Marymog]

I came to this conclusion from reading the book. I never just read a few verses and leave the rest of the book out. I feel a lot of sects do that, especially the Catholics. You should read it without your Catholic suppositions........

That’s the most I could read and I couldn’t go on. I don’t even know what the rest of your post said.

Thank you for your time. When i need to know the truth of Scripture obviously YOU are the one to contact to get YOUR interpretation because YOU have no suppositions and YOU read “the book”, not just a few verses like everyone else but the WHOLE book. No one else does that. All those other sects Don’t do that....but not YOUR sect....Your sect is as pure and wise and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Goodness...

 

[Taken]

Who founded your church?
OP ^

JESUS

 

[Renniks]

That’s the most I could read and I couldn’t go on. I don’t even know what the rest of your post said.

Thank you for your time. When i need to know the truth of Scripture obviously YOU are the one to contact to get YOUR interpretation because YOU have no suppositions and YOU read “the book”, not just a few verses like everyone else but the WHOLE book. No one else does that. All those other sects Don’t do that....but not YOUR sect....Your sect is as pure and wise and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Goodness...

Well you will never learn anything by ignoring others interpretations of the same verses. I guess that's fine if you just want to accept what your church says.

 

[theefaith]

Well you will never learn anything by ignoring others interpretations of the same verses. I guess that's fine if you just want to accept what your church says.

only the church is authorized to say anything
It’s a kingdom not a democracy
You don’t have a vote
There no truth committee!

 

[theefaith]

Well you will never learn anything by ignoring others interpretations of the same verses. I guess that's fine if you just want to accept what your church says.

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

1. 1 Timothy 3:15
   But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Renniks]

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

1. 1 Timothy 3:15
   But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I see nothing about your church having the only correct interpretation?

 

[theefaith]

I see nothing about your church having the only correct interpretation?

truth

jn 8:32 and 16:13

the church has a the pillar and ground of truth
not my church but Christ’s church

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Renniks]

truth

jn 8:32 and 16:13

the church has a the pillar and ground of truth
not my church but Christ’s church

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I still see nothing about YOUR church being the right one.

 

[Renniks]

That’s the most I could read and I couldn’t go on. I don’t even know what the rest of your post said.

Thank you for your time. When i need to know the truth of Scripture obviously YOU are the one to contact to get YOUR interpretation because YOU have no suppositions and YOU read “the book”, not just a few verses like everyone else but the WHOLE book. No one else does that. All those other sects Don’t do that....but not YOUR sect....Your sect is as pure and wise and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Goodness...

The irony is, what you are sarcastically saying here is exactly what the Catholics claim about their sect.

 

[theefaith]

I still see nothing about YOUR church being the right one.

I don’t have a church
Only Christ has authority to build the one true church and I’ve told you a hundred times matt 16:18

 

[Renniks]

I don’t have a church
Only Christ has authority to build the one true church and I’ve told you a hundred times matt 16:18

But you assume that church is the RCC. It isn't.

 

[theefaith]

But you assume that church is the RCC. It isn't.

then something must be do here your jn 8:32 moment
What is?????????