Dead to the Law

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lforrest

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I do not feel that I can adequately comment because you have "sicced" the moderators on me.

So, while I might have answered with biblical words and exegesis, I will refrain at this point because I value my ability to continue to post here at these Message Boards.

I guess everyone can be motivated to compromise if certain threats are made; even those pastors who may have previously thought that they were immune to such a thing.
Thats too bad, if you're worried about this rule: "Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians."
It was not intended to prevent loving rebukes.

Rather, I think it better to be concerned about what God thinks of offending someone. And maybie air on the side of caution for his sake.
 

Charlie24

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by Jesus Christ thru His church and the sacraments with faith!
Christ and His church are one acts 22:9

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20 with His church (apostles) till the end!

faith and baptism is the initiation into the new covenant

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

You can divide you faith with sacraments and church if you like, but remember this. Paul tells us it's by grace or works there is no combination, it's one or the other.

Rom. 11:6
"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

You can place all your faith in Christ, period, or you can suffer the consequences!

I have nothing else to say about it!
 
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BarneyFife

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They were under Law! The way to be blameless was through the Sacrificial System of the Law.
Hebrews 10

1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, (1 Thessalonians 4:3)
 

BloodBought 1953

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We play a part in Salvation; we must be yielded vessels to stay in His grace.


The only part that “YOU” play in your Salvation is this—- The willingness to accept a “ Free Gift”....Jesus did EVERYTHING that is necessary for Salvation.... that's why it can be Free for us Sinners....
 

BarneyFife

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Gal. 3:11

"But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”

What does this tell you?

While that is certainly true:

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13)

What does this tell you?
 

BarneyFife

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Thats too bad, if you're worried about this rule: "Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians."
It was not intended to prevent loving rebukes.
Could you possibly explain this in a little more detail? I know it wasn't directed at me, but I see both myself and others getting a lot of what I would not compliment as being "loving rebukes." I'm talking strictly between members, of course--not as coming from admins. :)
 

theefaith

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End of the law as justification, perhaps, but you're leaving out all the good things that are said in the New Testament about the law. Not to mention the Proverbs and Psalms.

how were these two righteous?
Lk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
 

theefaith

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Let's talk about the New Covenant promise. Which laws did God mean to write upon the hearts of believers? Just asking. :)

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises
 

BarneyFife

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how were these two righteous?
Lk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
You're preachin' to the choir, Ange. :)
 
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theefaith

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No. Regardless of what false prophets have said in this thread the only reason we're righteous is because Jesus has covered our sins. When we come to Him we become righteous but not by our own doing and this is what really annoys me is the fact that there's false teachings on here confusing members and that's not how it works and I sure wish the staff (no offense as I consider you all to be my friends on here) would do something about it when they're clearly leading people astray. :rolleyes:

we don’t have to obey Jn 15:1-5?
 

Charlie24

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While that is certainly true:

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13)

What does this tell you?

It tells me that man is not justified by works in any fashion. it also tells me that faith in Christ is the only way that we can be Law-keepers in the sight of God.

We believe on what He has already done, not what we can do for our justification.
 
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theefaith

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Resting in the Gospel, abandoning the Burden Of trying to “MAKE” yourself Worthy Of Salvation as opposed to seeing that you have been “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of the Lamb .....That spurs Love .....Love spurs the Obedience That God is looking for..... a lot of what people consider to be “ Obedience” is just Dead Works.....Are you “ doing something” to GET Saved or to STAY Saved? It’s a Dead Work.....

what about the gospel?

Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much:
 

BarneyFife

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It tells me that man is not justified by works in any fashion. it also tells me that faith in Christ is the only way that we can be Law-keepers in the sight of God.

We believe on what He has already done, not what we can do for our justification.
You missed my whole point. Try again, if you like. :)
 

theefaith

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You can divide you faith with sacraments and church if you like, but remember this. Paul tells us it's by grace or works there is no combination, it's one or the other.

Rom. 11:6
"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

You can place all your faith in Christ, period, or you can suffer the consequences!

I have nothing else to say about it!

mo Paul is rejecting works alone and works of the law not faith and works fine in Christ thru grace

otherwise he would not teach suffering is necessary

Heb 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Our principal means of dying is baptism!

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


More. Verses about suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
 

Charlie24

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You missed my whole point. Try again, if you like. :)

I'm not playing games! If you want to try and keep the Law, go ahead, you will be judged by that Law.

However I will not be judged by the Law, I will be judged by my 100% faith in Christ.
 

theefaith

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It tells me that man is not justified by works in any fashion. it also tells me that faith in Christ is the only way that we can be Law-keepers in the sight of God.

We believe on what He has already done, not what we can do for our justification.

faith and works done in Christ thru grace

Heb 2:9-10 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Our principal means of dying is baptism!

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


More. Verses about suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
 

BloodBought 1953

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This side of the Cross, Under Grace .....Jesus left us with only two Commandments...#1 Believe. #2 Love.

Even if a person “could” ( and they can’t) obey the 613 Laws If Moses , it would be a complete waste of time in regard to one’s Salvation...you would be abiding by the wrong rules of the game.....there is only ONE rule to get Saved....just like Jesus told the Disciples—- “Believe in the One that He sent”...