Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And round and round it goes.

Yes by faith we have access (to grace).

How do you suppose the dead get to have faith if not made alive first? That is the question you should be addressing.

Are you trying to say that a person can be made alive apart from grace?

There are many graces. What grace are you referring to?

The quickening or making alive of the fallen man who is in a state of death, is grace.

Tong
R2749

 

[marks]

The promises will no longer be for me if I stop believing some time in the future.

Yes. I KNOW. Yes. I have this knowledge.

These two statements contradict each other.

You know you will inherit the promise, but you don't know if you will inherit?

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's why I'm holding fast to it! That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing in it.

No, the point is, Biblical hope is not wistful, not maybe, not uncertain.

This isn't an admonition to "keep believing", this is how the Bible uses the word Hope. Let's try to stay on point, shall we? Unless you don't want to. I suppose these things reveal your intent?

But if we stay just looking at the Scriptures, and remain open hearted towards WHATEVER it is that God is teaching us, that is fruitful.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So far it's because I don't want to lose God's forgiveness for sin. I value what he has promised more than I do any earthly gain I might have in going back to the world and it's ways.

This speaks towards your feelings of today, what assurance do you have you will feel the same tomorrow?

There IS a reason! And it's a valid and Biblical reason that does not depend on us remaining unchanging.

AS IF I could say, I am Mark, I change not! No, I don't say that. But there is One Who does not change.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

There are many graces. What grace are you referring to?

Saving grace.

The quickening or making alive of the fallen man who is in a state of death, is grace.

You must realize that we have access to it by faith.

 

[Behold]

And yet you teach we could even fall away in unbelief and still one would be saved .
If God cast even the jews out of their own tree due to unbelief .

The only thing you are exposing, is that you are easily deceived.
So, let me help you.

1.) those JEWS You are referring to, are not BORN AGAIN.

Do you understand?

Also, Believer are Born again.
Do you understand what this mean?

Born again, is a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.
God causes this to happen, and it can't be undone.

We are not kept saves, by our effort or by our THINKING.
We are kept saved by the same that SAVED US.

 

[marks]

If that is what the doctrine of OSAS is, then I am not in agreement with it.

My view on that matter is somewhat like this, one who had been saved by God, will be kept by God and He will not lose him/her. As God had worked out to save him, He will work out to keep him.

Tong
R2738

We need to be careful, though. Someone says, "You believe you will be saved no matter how you behave", there is the one sense, that rebirth changes us. But there is the other sense, somehow if you see bad behavior in yourself, it must mean you aren't saved.

Salvation is by grace through faith, and is not a result of our works, of course, so then, neither good works result in the gain of salvation, nor bad works result in the loss of salvation.

We are reborn, which is forever, and THEN go on to do our works, because we've been reborn, indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

It's not about our works. We are His workmanship!

Of course I know you know these things!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Otherwise, according to your interpretation of the verse, no one can know for sure if they are truly saved until their dying breath.

That's not how you know.

Even still, you reverse the sequence of conditions in the passage.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

You must realize that we have access to it by faith.

And you dont realize that if a person is born again, then God has already Accepted their faith.

Salvation is what God created using a CROSS, BLOOD, and DEATH.
God applies this, ONCE, and its a permanent application, as proven by being born again.

You can't stop being born again.
Your faith, that God accepted ONCE, on the day you are saved, caused God to apply the Blood Atonement.
The blood Atonement, lasts for as long as God lives.
This is why the "life" we now have, is called "Eternal life".
There is no ending this by behavior issues.

 

[marks]

I will show you grammatically, logically, and in regard to reason the flaws your view has. But this is just for fun discussion. What is important is that we both agree that the true believer is just that, a true believer, trusting in God's promises, even to the very end.

This verse has a simple construction.

Condition 1 is true IF Condition 2 is true.

Condition 1 is, "You've become a partaker of Christ".

Condition 2 is, "you hold your confidence stedfast to the end".

IF Condition 2 is true, Condition 1 is true. IF Condition 2 is not true, then Condition 1 is not true.

Condition 1 being true means that you have become a partaker.

Condition1 being not true means you have not become a partaker.

Condition 2 being true means you do hold your confidence steadfast to the end.

Condition 2 being not true means you do not hold your confidence stedfast to the end.

IF Condition 2 is true, this means condition 1 is true, you have become a partaker of Christ.

IF Condition 2 is not true, this means condition 2 is not true, you have not become a partaker of Christ.

There is nothing in this passage about whether a partaker of Christ will or won't continue or stop being a partaker of Christ.

Well, that's not entirely true, when you get into specific syntax and all, which shows "have become a partaker" as showing a new enduring state.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
There are many graces. What grace are you referring to?

Saving grace.

Now your question was “Are you trying to say that a person can be made alive apart from grace?”

The quickening or making alive is not accessed by man. The fallen man who is in a state of death could not do anything more so access anything. It is God who quickens and makes alive. This grace comes to the fallen man and the fallen man have nothing to do with it.

Tong2020 said: ↑
The quickening or making alive of the fallen man who is in a state of death, is grace.

You must realize that we have access to it by faith.

Yes we, the Christians, not the fallen man. The Christian is already made alive that he still needs to access the grace of quickening.

Tong
R2750

 

[marks]

I don't think he thief at the cross had the opportunity to fail to do the will of God after he called out to Jesus to be saved.

You can flip this either way. He didn't fail to do the required works / he didn't do any required works, what does this mean?

Either way, he hung on a cross and died. What works did he do? He was saved apart from works entirely.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

How?

Read it for yourself . Folks will do as folks will do and i am not one that will continue
to keep trying to bring the same horse to water over and over again .
Instead i will continue to point to Christ and remind all to continue in the faith , in the grace of GOD .
Be thou faithful unto death and i shall give thee a crown of life .
Let us endure unto the end . Be strong in the grace and exhort always to continue in Christ , in the faith unto the end .

 

[amigo de christo]

The only thing you are exposing, is that you are easily deceived.
So, let me help you.

1.) those JEWS You are referring to, are not BORN AGAIN.

Do you understand?

Also, Believer are Born again.
Do you understand what this mean?

Born again, is a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.
God causes this to happen, and it can't be undone.

We are not kept saves, by our effort or by our THINKING.
We are kept saved by the same that SAVED US.

Due to UNBELIEF they were cast out , but can be grafted back in if they continue no more in unbeleif .
One thing is for sure and for certain . No one wants to not be in that tree .
And the only way in is by faith in Christ .
So lets hear another warning . Behold both the goodness of GOD and the severity .
Severity towards those who fell , DUE TO UNBELIEF in CHRIST , GOODNESS towards thee .
IF you continue in HIS GOODNESS , otherwise ye too shall be cast out . ONE THING IS FOR SURE
there is no salvation for those who are not in the tree . Anyway its my last reminder here .
I need to be focused on reminding folks to continue in the faith , in the grace of GOD , faithful to Christ unto the END .

 

[Wrangler]

You can flip this either way. He didn't fail to do the required works / he didn't do any required works, what does this mean?

Everything. It means everything. Not sure what ‘works’ were required for the thief on the cross.

 

[Behold]

Due to UNBELIEF they were cast out .

Yes, when you are an unbelieving Jew or an unbelieving Gentile, you are already DAMNED.
See, if you are a Christ Rejector, you are not waiting for Damnation, as you are already damned.
You are just waiting to die, so that you can go to where all the damned, end up.
This : John 3:36

So, all those Jews, and everyone who is not BORN AGAIN, is cast out.
Already damned.
BUT< if they REPENT of their UNBELIEF, they are born again, and once you are born again, you can't be cast out.
God can't "cast out" what He lives within.
Understand?
God Lives WITHIN the Born AgaiN.
"Christ IN YOU< the hope of Glory"...>the Born again" are the Temple of God, the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
God is IN the Born again, and we are IN GOD.
IF HE Cast the born again out, He would be casting Himself out, as we are "ONE with GOD, and Christ".

 

[justbyfaith]

Born again, is a SPIRITUAL BIRTH.
God causes this to happen, and it can't be undone.

While you can't be "unborn" you can die spiritually (James 1:14-16, Romans 6:23)

Salvation is by grace through faith, and is not a result of our works, of course, so then, neither good works result in the gain of salvation, nor bad works result in the loss of salvation.

Nevertheless, if someone is truly born of God, he "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

And you dont realize that if a person is born again, then God has already Accepted their faith.

Salvation is what God created using a CROSS, BLOOD, and DEATH.
God applies this, ONCE, and its a permanent application, as proven by being born again.

You can't stop being born again.
Your faith, that God accepted ONCE, on the day you are saved, caused God to apply the Blood Atonement.
The blood Atonement, lasts for as long as God lives.
This is why the "life" we now have, is called "Eternal life".
There is no ending this by behavior issues.

If we don't continue in His goodness, we will be "cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).

The quickening or making alive is not accessed by man.

Sure it is. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. (Romans 5:1-2)

Yes we, the Christians, not the fallen man. The Christian is already made alive that he needs to access the grace of quickening.

If the fallen man does not have access by faith into grace, then he does not have access to grace; therefore he cannot be saved.

 

[Behold]

If we don't continue in His goodness, we will be "cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).
.

The last time you sinned you were not "continuing in His Goodness".

See, you have no idea what you are doing here.
YOu close you eyes and stick verses together in the darkness, and then you say..>"see, im a teacher".

Uh huh.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, when you are an unbelieving Jew or an unbelieving Gentile, you are already DAMNED.
See, if you are a Christ Rejector, you are not waiting for Damnation, as you are already damned.
You are just waiting to die, so that you can go to where all the damned, end up.
This : John 3:36

So, all those Jews, and everyone who is not BORN AGAIN, is cast out.
Already damned.
BUT< if they REPENT of their UNBELIEF, they are born again, and once you are born again, you can't be cast out.
God can't "cast out" what He lives within.
Understand?
God Lives WITHIN the Born AgaiN.
"Christ IN YOU< the hope of Glory"...>the Born again" are the Temple of God, the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
God is IN the Born again, and we are IN GOD.
IF HE Cast the born again out, He would be casting Himself out, as we are "ONE with GOD, and Christ".

"So, I think that if having faith in Christianity ever becomes too hard for me, I will depart from the faith; knowing that I will continue to be saved according to your theology."

What say you to this?

Do you not see that if you are wrong, you are leading people down a path where they will not be saved and will not go to heaven?

There are scriptures that show you to be wrong.

How then can you continue to purport your false doctrines, knowing that they will lead people to everlasting damnation? Have you no care for the souls of men? Are you seeking to lead them to hell?

My heart weeps for the souls that may be lost because of your presence in Christendom as a "teacher".

 

[marks]

What is important is that we both agree that the true believer is just that, a true believer, trusting in God's promises, even to the very end.

What is important to understand is what God has done for His children, that enables them to live holy and righteous lives through trusting in Jesus' completed work on the cross.

Thinking you bear the responsibility isn't faith in God.

Much love!