Once Saved Always Saved

[justbyfaith]

“ Stick verses together in the darkness?....lol......that we he used to do back in the good old days.....He has now outdone himself with a newer ploy.....like in another thread where he more or less claims that a Promise Of God is invalid because God , unlike him, was too dumb to foresee that a certain Promise could be taken wrong by some heathen......
God messed up when mistakenly put in Romans 10:13....... that verse that says , “ Anybody that asks to be Saved will be saved?”

No, I have not said that Romans 10:13 is invalid.

Just that your paraphrase of it is invalid; because it includes Muslims and unbelievers in salvation.

The verse in question says,

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I would simply contend that the name of the Lord is "Jesus Christ of Nazareth" (Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12), for the scriptures cannot be broken.

Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Well, God’s critic, justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance, says that Promise does not count because somebody could ask Allah to save them and they would be saved......Poor God.....what on “ earth” was He thinking when He made that Glorious Promise that exposed His eagerness to Save , how easy it was to be Saved, and the Amazing Grace That prompted it...

Again, I was merely pointing out that your paraphrase of Romans 10:13 to include Muslims and unbelievers in salvation is invalid.

...I can’t believe that I am the only one that I have seen that is outraged by his latest Blasphemy...

To you, it appears to be blasphemy that Jesus is the only way to salvation...

Such is your gospel, that you doctor it to include Muslims and unbelievers in salvation.

The world will hear you (1 John 4:5); those who believe in Christ, "newbies", and Bereans (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) will not.

John 14:6 is clear that Jesus is the only way.

See also Matthew 7:13-14.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I do not claim to be a "teacher". My spiritual gift is "the word of wisdom". And I also function as an evangelist.

The only “ gift” you possess is showing an on-looking world what “ Falling from Grace” looks like..... keep up the good work !

 

[justbyfaith]

The only “ gift” you possess is showing an on-looking world what “ Falling from Grace” looks like..

Never devoid of insults.

That is the good fruit that we like to see in a good tree (Matthew 7:15-20).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I define a Christian as anyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord".

See Matthew 7:21.

Isn’t it more like, “ Lord,Lord, I promise to Repent Of all of my sins before I die so that I can be the “ Co-Savior”, along with you.....You did “Your” part and I did mine ! Let me “ enter into that Rest” that I have earned !

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Never devoid of insults.

That is the good fruit that we like to see in a good tree (Matthew 7:15-20).[/QUOTE



Never devoid of exposing the “ Accursed” who teach False , Perverted Doctrines That ADD to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace by teaching That if one does not repent of all of their sins before they die ,they will go to Hell....

Never devoid of calling a Tare a Tare.....one who has the gall to chasten God for mistakenly putting in Romans 10:13.....

Pail instructs us to “ Rebuke” our Brothers.....I don’t even think you are a “ brother”..... You are an “Accuser Of The Brethren”.....

Rebuking False , “self- called” Teachers as opposed to “ God- Called” Teachers is “ good fruit”.......

 

[justbyfaith]

Isn’t it more like, “ Lord,Lord, I promise to Repent Of all of my sins before I die so that I can be the “ Co-Savior”, along with you.....You did “Your” part and I did mine ! Let me “ enter into that Rest” that I have earned !

Nope...because not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord, has necessarily repented so that they do the will of the Father.

Mat 7:21, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Rebuking False , “self- called” Teachers as opposed to “ God- Called” Teachers is “ good fruit”.......

Therefore you are bearing "bad fruit" because I have been "God-called".

 

[justbyfaith]

Rebuking False , “self- called” Teachers as opposed to “ God- Called” Teachers is “ good fruit”...

And you also have never been able to rebuke me.

To rebuke would be to put to silence by showing incontrovertibly from scripture that the position of the one rebuked is faulty.

I have done this with you...yet you continue to attack my doctrine as though it were from the devil himself.

It is not...it is in fact true and wholesome doctrine that is from the Holy Spirit; and which will bring salvation to all who will believe.

You are walking on dangerous ground...

For you continue to have unbelief as concerning what I am preaching when I have substantiated every word with rightly divided scripture.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The quickening or making alive is not accessed by man.
Sure it is. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. (Romans 5:1-2)

Sure it is. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. (Romans 5:1-2)

This is the nth time you made a full circle. You cited Romans 5:1-2 in your attempt to refute my position that fallen man who are in a state of death must first be quickened and made alive for them to hear and have faith. I have shown you your misuse of Rom.5:1-2. That it does not refute my position in any way. And in counter refutation, you cited Romans 5:1-2 again and again and again, thereby just going around. It gives me a picture of a dog that keep chasing its tail. So, I will stop responding the next time you go to the tail end again and cite Romans 5:1-2 to defend your take of Roman 5:1-2.

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes we, the Christians, not the fallen man. The Christian is already made alive that he needs to access the grace of quickening.

If the fallen man does not have access by faith into grace, then he does not have access to grace; therefore he cannot be saved.

That’s right. Finally you got it.

The fallen man, being in a state of death, is as dead. He need to be made alive first to be able to do something. Only after being made alive could he have access to the grace of God. Unless he is made alive, he cannot see the kingdom of God, much less, enter it.

I hope you won’t cite Romans 5:1-2 to defend your take of Romans 5:1-2 here and say no, we have access by faith. Please don’t. It’s also tiring you know.

Tong
R2753

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
We sure see people who professed and claimed, and even were baptized, to be believers, to be Christians, who later becomes Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, or in general, become unbelievers in Jesus Christ. But my view is this, that the true Christians do not belong to those who shrink back unto unbelief, but to those who have faith and are truly saved.

This reminds me a verse many people just skip over when they are reading Hebrews as if it condemned the children of God.

Hebrews 6:3-9 KJV
3) And this will we do, if God permit.
4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7) For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8) But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Much love!

That passage actually give strong refutation to the view that true Christians could reject Jesus Christ in unbelief and then later could believe again and round that goes. It gives strong support to the view that true believers abides, continues, and remain in the faith and in Jesus Christ.

Tong
R2754

 

[Tong2020]

Both.

Diligence in making my calling and election sure is the condition for the promise that I shall never fall; according to that scripture (2 Peter 1:10).

And I am only pulling out from the text what it is saying here.

The “you shall never fail” is not a result that you cause. It is the outcome of the good Spirit that works in the child of God that grows him to spiritual maturity. It is the same Spirit that worked on you that you were brought to repentance towards God. It is the same Spirit who works to keep the child of God from falling away from Christ and be lost again. We have to realize that certainty only comes from and only could be the work of God who alone is immutable and does not change. It could never be a work of man whose mind and will is unstable and easily forgets. The admonition and reminder gives evidence to that. Every Christian, while not yet clothed with his heavenly body, needs every like reminder, that he may not forget who he is, that he is the child of God, chosen by God, to be pure as He is pure. That is, if he is indeed a child of God. It is a mistake to take the passage as saying that one’s diligence or any work for that matter could make certain anything for him.

Tong
R2755

 

[justbyfaith]

Clearly, Romans 5:1-2 refutes your theology; which is why you don't want me to quote it any more.

We are made alive through saving grace; and we have access to saving grace through our faith.

I think that John 1:12 also refutes your theology.

Because if your Calvinistic point of view were true, that we are first made alive, and only then can we come to faith in Christ, it should say,

"To as many as became the sons of God, to them He gave the power to receive Him and believe on His name."

Not only is such a thing illogical; but the scriptures do not put things in that order.

Jhn 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Receiving Him comes first, and then we have the power to become sons of God.

You are standing outside of a mansion. The question is, how do you gain access to the mansion?

Jesus gives you the key of faith. You have access to the mansion (grace) through that key.

So, I will concede that Jesus giving you the key is an act of grace on the Lord's part.

However, the grace of living in the mansion is not given unless you gain access through the key of faith.

Living in the mansion also represents being made alive in Christ, in the parable that I lay before you.

 

[Tong2020]

I define a Christian as anyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord".

See Matthew 7:21.

Surely, that is your definition. And many do have that same definition. That is why, there was need to say “true Christians” today, to be clear as to whom one is talking about about or referring to in a discussion.

Tong
R2756

 

[justbyfaith]

The “you shall never fail”

It is "you shall never fall".

And giving diligence to make your calling and election sure is the condition of the promise in 2 Peter 1:10.

Of course it is God who is working in you both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

 

[justbyfaith]

Surely, that is your definition. And many do have that same definition. That is why, there was need to say “true Christians” today, to be clear as to whom one is talking about about or referring to in a discussion.

Tong
R2756

Giving a general definition is one way of refraining from judging others in not calling them a Christian, or saying that they are not a Christian.

It can be said that those who are not born again may indeed be a Christian; certainly not saved: but we can most certainly say not that they are not a Christian and violate the rules of the boards, while speaking forth the reality that if they were to continue on in the state that they are in, they will not go to heaven.

 

[Tong2020]

Of course my ministry is primarily on these boards and so I will also continue to pour my life into what I am posting here; for I know that my reward shall be great in heaven over the things that I minister; if not for the fact that the things I say draw from the unbelieving, persecution for righteousness' sake (John 15:18-20, Matthew 5:10-12, Luke 6:22-23, 2 Timothy 3:10-12).

Not that I am saying you don’t do this. But such post gives me such impression that I am in the spirit led to say this.

A gentle reminder, whatever you do, do it all for God and always for God. If rewards proves to get one out of that focus, by all means, forget about them. They will come regardless.

I also read @Ferris Bueller ‘s mind and heart in one of his post here, that he continues to believe because he don't want to lose God's forgiveness for sin and he value what he has promised more than any gain of earthly things. So, this gentle reminder goes as well to him.

Tong
R2757

 

[justbyfaith]

I do have rewards in mind in the fact that I work the work of the ministry, and I don't think that that is an improper motivation.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Now, we ask these questions:

Those who are believing today, are they partakers of Christ?

Those who stop believing today, were they partakers of Christ before today?

(follow my reasoning...)

Those who stop believing today, did they believe in Christ before today?

If they stopped believing, then they believed.

So, they were partakers of Christ if the answer to the first question is always yes (that those who believe today, are always partakers of Christ).

Therefore, the answer to the first question is not always yes (because if they do not continue in the faith, but believe today, they were not partakers of Christ; and yet, those who stopped believing, believed before, and therefore if the answer to the question is always yes, they were partakers of Christ before.)

Therefore, those who believe today are not necessarily, always, partakers of Christ.

I am sorry, but I can’t follow your reasoning. Following it just puts me in the confusion you are in.

Tong
R2758

 

[Tong2020]

@justbyfaith, @Blood Bought 1953

Concerning Romans 10:13...

One ought to realize that it is a given that whoever calls the name of the LORD is a believer and have faith in the LORD.

It is not as though that the passage could apply to the unbeliever. That would be foolish to think like so, I should say. And even if there are unbelievers who calls the name of the LORD for whatever reason they call, I don’t think they will be saved, unless they believe in God and in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ.

Tong
R2759

 

[Tong2020]

Clearly, Romans 5:1-2 refutes your theology; which is why you don't want me to quote it any more.

We are made alive through saving grace; and we have access to saving grace through our faith.

I think that John 1:12 also refutes your theology.

Because if your Calvinistic point of view were true, that we are first made alive, and only then can we come to faith in Christ, it should say,

"To as many as became the sons of God, to them He gave the power to receive Him and believe on His name."

Not only is such a thing illogical; but the scriptures do not put things in that order.

Jhn 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Receiving Him comes first, and then we have the power to become sons of God.

You are standing outside of a mansion. The question is, how do you gain access to the mansion?

Jesus gives you the key of faith. You have access to the mansion (grace) through that key.

So, I will concede that Jesus giving you the key is an act of grace on the Lord's part.

However, the grace of living in the mansion is not given unless you gain access through the key of faith.

Living in the mansion also represents being made alive in Christ, in the parable that I lay before you.

<<<We are made alive through saving grace; and we have access to saving grace through our faith.>>>

Tell me, how does one who is in a state of death, being dead to God, do anything pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God? Don’t you know that the dead can do absolutely nothing? Why then do you insist, contrary to that fact, that the dead man can have faith and access grace? Must he not first be made alive to be able to do something? Well,.....unless you properly and effective refute that, this issue is settled.

Regarding John 1:12, I also have already shown you the misuse of that verse. So I ask again, who are the “them” that believe, according to John? Tell us please.

Regarding your analogy, I will just say, it does not fit. If there be an analogy given, I think the nearest analogy is that of a dead man, who if not first made alive could not do anything.

Tong
R2760

 

[Tong2020]

It is "you shall never fall".

And giving diligence to make your calling and election sure is the condition of the promise in 2 Peter 1:10.

Of course it is God who is working in you both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

Yes, sorry for the typo.

That’s right, it is God who works. Let’s all keep that in mind.

Tong
R2761