Freedom To Sin

[Ronald Nolette]

I do not see verified that anything other than our willful PAST sins of lawlessness are automatically cleansed.

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

That is only because you cannot see the depth of Gods love.
The issue for man was never individual sins, but the sin nature itself. That is why when one is born again He is made a new Creature and God declares the old one gone forever! God has removed once for all our sins from us.

Judically, as for salvation we have been declared totaaly innocent once for all time and Jesus death and resurrection paid for all sin.

Experientially as for our fellowship with God, when we sin, we must acknowledge that sin so our fellowship (not our relationship which was never harmed) will be restored.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The correct biblical teaching is that we are forgiven of our PAST sins at the point of repentance, and faith in Christ for our salvation. Present and future sins must be addressed by the believer on a daily basis.

JOHN 1: HOW CHRISTIANS MUST CONTINUE IN FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The misunderstanding comes from the fact that all our sins were laid on Christ, and He paid the penalty for them all. But repentance is for the remission of sins, and Christ Himself said this, and this was repeated by the apostles. So present and future sins must be repented of.

So according to you , if one sins, they lose their salvation and get it back when they repent? So one is born again, then un-born again, then born again...again, then unborn again...again, then born again....again again, then unborn again....again every time they sin. Wow let me introduce you to the God of the bible! His love is not so ephemeral and temporary and based on your performance.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We are justified: instant, and are born-again of the Spirit, can't sin.
We are sanctified: progressive; can't help but sin.
We are glorified: tba

Believing that sanctification is instant is a very dangerous deception. I'd get down on my knees and beg you to reconsider...if I could.

W@ell as no one here spoke of instant sanctification, the point you make is moot!

But We are instantly sanctified! In Hebrews it is written " for by one sacrifice He hath perfected forever, those being sanctified"!

IOW God has declared us positionally holy before Him, and now He (not us) is making us as holy as He sees us!

 

[Enoch111]

So according to you , if one sins, they lose their salvation and get it back when they repent?

You still don't get it. Did I say anything about anyone losing their salvation? Why don't you read things properly and learn a few things?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You still don't get it. Did I say anything about anyone losing their salvation? Why don't you read things properly and learn a few things?

Then what are you talking about then. You sound exactly like the lose your salvation crowd. I apologize if I misread you , but when you sound like all those who say you could lose your salvation, it is super easy to misread you.

 

[Taken]

Freedom To Sin
OP ^

Freedom....TO SIN...YES.
* Natural man HAS freedom, his own freewill TO SIN...

WHAT IS SIN?
*** For a person stock descendent of a Tribe of Israel;
SIN IS Transgression of "THEIR" Law.
* They HAVE an OPTION:
Remain UNDER their Law, and by their "own power" TRY not to Transgress "THEIR" Law.
* Pray to God for Forgiveness, Should they Transgress Against "their" Law.
* No longer Remain UNDER their Law, and Repent and Accept Jesus' Offering of Salvation, and His Power to Convert them, and Keep them Converted.
* No longer Remain UNDER their Law.
And Reject God and His Christ Messiah.


*** For a person who is a Gentile;
SIN IS Disbelief...IN GOD.
SIN IS Disbelief...IN Christ Jesus.
* They HAVE an OPTION;
* Repent and Accept Jesus' Offering of Salvation, and His Power to Convert them, and Keep them Converted.
* Reject God and His Christ Messiah.

Any person CAN elect to REMAIN IN SIN, and SIN, SIN, SIN.
...An Israelite, CAN reject God.
...A Gentile, CAN reject God, Bad mouth God all day long, Promote others to be Against God.

* A Converted person, IS Forgiven his Sin, and can NEVER AGAIN, Reject God and His Christ Messiah. Such a man IS FOREVER KEPT in faithful belief IN God, IN Christ Jesus....BY THE POWER of God.

* Then there IS another "transgression", which IS BETWEEN MEN.
* This is called a "TRESPASS".
Men are NOT taught to "BELIEVE IN" other men.
Men ARE taught BEHAVIORS "Between men"... Kindness, Helping Hand, Charity,
Teaching Goodness, etc.

A mans behavior between men is CALLED; PRECEPTS.
Gods TAUGHT PRECEPTS, Between men, is FOR a most beneficial outcome.

When a MAN ACTS Against another man...ie lies to, cheats, steals, scams, etc.... he is TRESPASSING AGAINST the other man.
And Absolutely Scripture teaches, for men to FORGIVE eachother of TRESPASSING Against eachother.

If you are NOT UNDER the Law...
SIN is ONLY Against God...AND....ONLY God forgives SIN.

I am Converted IN Christ.
I have TWO LAWS given me BY Christ.
Love the Lord my God with all my Heart.
Love my neighbor as myself.

THOSE TWO LAWS...I could NOT (especially the second one) Keep by my own power.
I keep those two Law, Expressly, Because the Power of the Lord, Dwells IN me.

Do I sin against the Lord God?
No, not possible.
The Indwelling of the Power of the Lord, Keeps me IN Faith To the Lord God Forever.

Do I Trespass Against men?
Sure.
My effort is to NOT Trespass intentionally.
However, I may hit ice on the road and ram my vehicle into theirs, causing a Trespass Against them. It is for me to pay damages and seek their forgiveness.

FREEDOM to SIN?
Not possible for a Converted man.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CharismaticLady]

Experientially as for our fellowship with God, when we sin, we must acknowledge that sin so our fellowship (not our relationship which was never harmed) will be restored.

So WHEN WE SIN??? It looks like you only believe in imputed righteousness, not the life-changing real righteousness that God empowers us with.

 

[Enoch111]

Then what are you talking about then. You sound exactly like the lose your salvation crowd. I apologize if I misread you , but when you sound like all those who say you could lose your salvation, it is super easy to misread you.

Here are the exact words from my previous post: "No. You are out of fellowship, as John made crystal clear. A child of God remains a child of God."

To be out of fellowship is to not be in communion with God and Christ. That is the meaning of koinonia (which is translated as both communion and fellowship). This does not change the status of a child of God remaining a child of God. This does not mean that salvation is forfeited.

But just as disobedient children are not in fellowship with their parents until they (parents & children) deal with their disobedience, so it is with God and His children.

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (Heb 12:5-8)

 

[Renniks]

Do you want to commit sin? Do you wake up in the morning thinking, OH, I hope I can get in some sinning today! Maybe even a little depravity? Anyone

Has anyone else been honest enough to admit they do occasionally wake up wanting to do something they know is wrong? (Cautiously raises hand) "Guilty."

 

[marks]

Has anyone else been honest enough to admit they do occasionally wake up wanting to do something they know is wrong? (Cautiously raises hand) "Guilty."

I'm guilty on any counts you want to throw at me. I'm not the guy who says I don't sin.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Repentance I believe is a mindset of faith and trust and a desire for righteousness. A hunger and thirst for it. On that basis, the promise of becoming righteous is met.

I agree completely!

Repentance - metamoia - is having a new mind, and that new mind is from Christ. We will never cease to desire righteousness. Even if we become so completely discouraged that we think it unreachable, yet still we will long for righteousness.

Jesus is unto us righteousness. It's not unreachable.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No. You are out of fellowship, as John made crystal clear. A child of God remains a child of God.

Our fellowship with God was obtained for us by Jesus on the cross.

Is our reconciliation to Him undone by our sin? Reconciled is to restore to relationship. Are you saying our relationship is broken again?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Charity, I appreciate you trying to mediate here, but there are tremendous problems between A@g and I over her faith in Gnostic theology, which lays squarely behind her insistence upon the doctrine of predestined damnation of those not "chosen" from the foundation of the world.

Could you keep this on your thread?

Thanks!

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

I never realized you thought this.

So then if you forget to confess a sin, are you lost?

Much love!

Believe me , if we do err , the Spirit lets us know . I know when a lustful thought even pops into my mind .
If one errs , let us do the pattern JESUS first set and the apostles would later set it as well .
Look even at King David . He was in a nasty sin and had not repented . But GOD sent nathan and nathan let David know .
And david was in full out repentance mode . IF we have the SPIRIT , believe me it lets you know when danger is around .
And if we do err , we confess and repent . IF one does not heed the spirit but continues to entertain the sin
Watch out , cause it sure will harden a heart . Let us keep all warnings and reminders that the true church leaders
once left us . Beholding always and learning well ALL those reminders .

 

[Hidden In Him]

Could you keep this on your thread?

Thanks!

Much love!

Geez... I know when I'm not wanted.

 

[marks]

Geez... I know when I'm not wanted.

Not you . . . that topic.

 

[marks]

Hebrews 4
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

How bold can we be? Is God with me to help me, even when I'm at my worst? Does God abandon me if I feel abandoned to my flesh? Is there any uncleanness which Jesus' blood has not already purified?

Can we truly come boldly in ANY need? At ANY time? We most certainly can!

For He has promised, I will never leave you, nor forsake you.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Is our reconciliation to Him undone by our sin? Reconciled is to restore to relationship. Are you saying our relationship is broken again?

Kindly read and digest what is shown in post #48. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?

 

[marks]

Kindly read and digest what is shown in post #48. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?

I wonder the same thing about thing about reconciliation. It seems some feel it is incomplete. I've come to learn that as we trust in the completeness of our reconciliation, this is the faith that turns into the abundant life, fruitful in the Spirit.

I'll go back and look at it.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

I wonder the same thing about thing about reconciliation.

Let's talk about reconciliation. When Christ paid for the sins of the whole world (which in fact became a barrier to God, and created enmity between God and man) Christ removed that enmity, and it was God the Father who was TOTALLY RECONCILED to mankind. Reconciliation applies to the removal of enmity between enemies.

At the same time, sinners are commanded now to be reconciled to God through (1) repentance toward God and (2) faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). So unless a sinner obeys the Gospel, he or she remains an enemy of God. But the one who believes is justified by grace through faith, and also becomes a child of God. And the New Birth is irreversible.

However, Christians can (and do) sin, and unless they deal with their present sins through confession and repentance, they cannot maintain fellowship God. Fellowship means communion, and communion means being of one mind and one spirit. Loss of fellowship is NOT loss of salvation, and the analogy is between children and parents on earth. Disobedient children cannot remain in fellowship with their parents until their disobedience has been dealt with. But they remain children.