Should people be called teachers?

Nomad · Mar 4, 2011

tomwebster said:
True, but you do not need to be in a church building to do this. A small group can meet in a home and do all these things.

This is true. Hopefully, the group will also be gifted with leaders who meet the qualifications for the office of Elder, (1 Tim. 3).

Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

By the way, thanks for the kind word the other day in this thread.

archaeologist5 · Mar 4, 2011

At first when I stopped going to church like 2 months ago I felt bad, I think people today look at you bad if you dont attend church, but not I feel good, the Spirit has been teaching me and blessing me.

And I personally don't see meeting together or fellowship as listening to one guy talk for an hour about the bible, religions, and world affairs... I see meeting together as walking together in the deep relationships we develop with our brothers and sisters in the Lord and to me meeting together is getting together and discussing our lives in the light...

the problem with this attitude is that you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable for spiritual attacks and to be deceived. it is not that i advocate that a person needs to attend an organized church building every week, but one must be able to find solid teaching to keep them on the straight and narrow and to make sure they are not going astray from the truth.

Robbie · Mar 4, 2011

Like John I believe the solid teaching we receive comes from the anointing we receive when we believe and not from a man... I believe our solid teaching comes from Christ alone... He's my only teacher... I am taught by God...

I reject any advice from a man that tells me I need another man to teach me...

The Word has entered me... Christ is in me... the Word in me is my teacher... Christ is my teacher... God is my teacher... not corruptible man... period...

"But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him."

jiggyfly · Mar 4, 2011

archaeologist5 said:
the problem with this attitude is that you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable for spiritual attacks and to be deceived. it is not that i advocate that a person needs to attend an organized church building every week, but one must be able to find solid teaching to keep them on the straight and narrow and to make sure they are not going astray from the truth.

Here's some of the most solid teaching available today http://austin-sparks.net/ it has helped me tremendously over the years.

Thankful 1 · Mar 4, 2011

Nomad said:
This is true. Hopefully, the group will also be gifted with leaders who meet the qualifications for the office of Elder, (1 Tim. 3).

Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

By the way, thanks for the kind word the other day in this thread.

You don’t understand Jesus said wherever two or more are gathered in my name I am there. If Jesus is there then there can be no better leader. Why would anyone listen to what a man says about God, when they have Jesus to tell him or her?

archaeologist5 · Mar 4, 2011

Like John I believe the solid teaching we receive comes from the anointing we receive when we believe and not from a man... I believe our solid teaching comes from Christ alone... He's my only teacher... I am taught by God...

I reject any advice from a man that tells me I need another man to teach me...

The Word has entered me... Christ is in me... the Word in me is my teacher... Christ is my teacher... God is my teacher... not corruptible man... period...

"But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him."

Yes God and Christ do teach BUT guess who they use? Other men who are annointed by God to teach, to preach, to be apostles, to be prophets and so on. 1 Cor. 12 talks about this and it tells people to desire the higher offices and gifts thus you cannot simply dismiss what other men are saying simply because they are human, that flies inthe face of Jesus calling the 12 apostles and instructing them so they in turn could teach and lead others.

your job is to discern whether or not such men are of God or not and Paul lays out a good criteria as does Jesus. too often people want to throw God's way out because they feel they know better than God.

jiggyfly said:
Here's some of the most solid teaching available today http://austin-sparks.net/ it has helped me tremendously over the years.

interesting website. i saved it so i can look at it later. KEEP IN MIND though that men are still fallible and everything they say will NOT be truth. they do make mistakes.

Robbie · Mar 4, 2011

My job is to believe in the One He sent... this is the work of God... that's what Jesus said... don't take this the wrong way but I don't need you to tell me what my job is... Jesus already did...

And I believe different... I don't believe God uses corruptible man to teach me... I believe God uses His incorruptible Self... the Holy Spirit...

Jesus is my only Teacher... the Holy Spirit is my only Teacher... God is my Only teacher... these three are One... when I'm taught by One I'm taught by all... the Word is in me... I don't need to be taught by men...
period...

I will never again trade being taught by an incorruptible God for being taught by corruptible men... EVER...

I've even been thinking about how false the teachers were at the church I first went to... claiming that they had, "Led me to the Lord" how egotistical... obviously if I walked into their church I was already seeking Him... and I was seeking Him because God Himself was calling me... not them...

My belief is men shouldn't take any of God's credit... whether it's taking God's glory by claiming to be the one who's teaching... because we have one teacher... the Christ... or whether it is them taking God's glory by claiming to be the one who's leading us to Jesus... no one comes to Jesus unless the Father Himself calls them... or whether it's someone taking the glory of God by calling themselves our Father... we have one Father God... because we aren't born because someone wanted to have sex... or because someone wanted have a baby.... but by the will of God...

That's my personal beliefs...

Nomad · Mar 4, 2011

Robbie said:
"But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him."

I'm afraid you misunderstand horribly what John is saying in your proof-text. Your interpretation, namely, that you do not need to be instructed by any is false. The only way I John 2:27 teaches this is if you rip it out of its context. If your understanding is correct, then why does John need to tell them anything? When John writes 1 John 2:27, is he not teaching them? Is not John's entire epistle full of teaching? Are not all of the NT epistles full of teaching? If that were not bad enough, your take on this verse sets up glaring contradictions with other passages of Scripture from all over the New Testament. First, let's look at those contradictions.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Acts 5:40 and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Acts 5:41 Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name.
Acts 5:42 And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.

1Co 4:17 That is why I sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.

1Co 14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1Ti 1:3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine. . .

1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach. . .

2Ti 2:2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil. . .

So what is John talking about? John exhorts his readers throughout the entire epistle not to forsake Apostolic teaching and fall for the lies told by gnostic teachers. He reminds them:

1Jn 2:21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. . .

1Jn 2:24 . . .Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. . .

1Jn 2:26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in him.

John is saying that the Holy Spirit will help his readers to recognize and embrace Apostolic teaching which they "heard from the beginning." The gnostic teachers were claiming to impart secret knowledge that was essential to salvation. John only means that they were by no means so ignorant as to need things as it were unknown to be taught them. They already knew the truth and the anointing they received from the Holy Spirit would confirm it.

archaeologist5 · Mar 4, 2011

look for the ******

Robbie said:
My job is to believe in the One He sent... this is the work of God... that's what Jesus said... don't take this the wrong way but I don't need you to tell me what my job is... Jesus already did...

*************clearly an attitude problem here. i beieve a little humbleness is in order.

And I believe different... I don't believe God uses corruptible man to teach me... I believe God uses His incorruptible Self... the Holy Spirit...

***********yet what did Jesus say to Peter when the sheet of unclean animals was lowered from heaven: do not call unclean what I have called clean?

Jesus is my only Teacher... the Holy Spirit is my only Teacher... God is my Only teacher... these three are One... when I'm taught by One I'm taught by all... the Word is in me... I don't need to be taught by men...
period...

*********yet, why would God in still the office of priests, overseers, elders, if He will do all the teaching Hmself? why would God establish rules for those offices if He was going to do it all Himself?

I will never again trade being taught by an incorruptible God for being taught by corruptible men... EVER...

*********again, you are insulting God's & Jesus here by insulting the people They have allowed to hold such offices. you need to learn humbleness, discernment, and a few other spiritual qualities.

I've even been thinking about how false the teachers were at the church I first went to... claiming that they had, "Led me to the Lord" how egotistical... obviously if I walked into their church I was already seeking Him... and I was seeking Him because God Himself was calling me... not them...

**********i think you have a problem with semantics and how things work. your own ego seems to outweigh theirs.

My belief is men shouldn't take any of God's credit... whether it's taking God's glory by claiming to be the one who's teaching... because we have one teacher... the Christ... or whether it is them taking God's glory by claiming to be the one who's leading us to Jesus... no one comes to Jesus unless the Father Himself calls them... or whether it's someone taking the glory of God by calling themselves our Father... we have one Father God... because we aren't born because someone wanted to have sex... or because someone wanted have a baby.... but by the will of God...

********that is not your call is it? Proverbs tells us to get understanding and wisdom, i think you need to heed that command before you condemn others.

That's my personal beliefs...

***********you are free to hold them but do not condemn those who reprove you or hold different views than you.

Selene · Mar 5, 2011

Robbie said:
I was wondering what people's opinions are about Jesus saying, "do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ."

and John basically agreeing by saying, "As for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in Him.

and then Paul saying something that to me sounds like it contradict both Jesus and John when he said that God had given some to be teachers.

Wondering what people's perspectives are and what foundational beliefs they use to come up with their perspectives as far as those ideas.

Hello Robbie,

When Jesus said, do not call anyone "teacher" he did not meant it literally because St. Paul called himself a teacher (1 Timothy 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:11). When Jesus said, do not call anyone "master," he also did not meant that literally because St. Paul and the Apostles also used the word "master" when referring to someone other than Christ (Ephesians 6:9). It is okay to use the title "teacher" and "master" but what Christ meant is not to use those titles with pride as the Pharisees had done.

In Christ,
Selene

Thankful 1 · Mar 5, 2011

Selene said:
Hello Robbie,

When Jesus said, do not call anyone "teacher" he did not meant it literally because St. Paul called himself a teacher (1 Timothy 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:11). When Jesus said, do not call anyone "master," he also did not meant that literally because St. Paul and the Apostles also used the word "master" when referring to someone other than Christ (Ephesians 6:9). It is okay to use the title "teacher" and "master" but what Christ meant is not to use those titles with pride as the Pharisees had done.

In Christ,
Selene

You really should read what Jesus said, and then ask Jesus/Holy Spirit to explain it to you.

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”

You should notice that Jesus said: You, however must not allow yourselves to be called” : So did Paul allow himself to be called teacher, father, by anyone? Then what is more important Jesus said: You must call no one on earth your father.”: Did you ever read where Paul called another man here on earth his father?

HammerStone · Mar 5, 2011

I think this verse - as some have rightly pointed out already - is one where context clearly matters.

The point was that you don't come up with another Father or another Christ to replace the original in Christianity. Most major religions have a prophet, teacher, or guru to whom is an earthly (fleshly) mediator. What Christ was saying here is you don't need one. This is one where I do disagree a bit with the denominations that use the Word "father" for a priest/teacher/pastor, but I do recognize that they're not saying that as in "Father God." The latter aspect is the message here.

Thankful 1 · Mar 5, 2011

HammerStone said:
I think this verse - as some have rightly pointed out already - is one where context clearly matters.

The point was that you don't come up with another Father or another Christ to replace the original in Christianity. Most major religions have a prophet, teacher, or guru to whom is an earthly (fleshly) mediator. What Christ was saying here is you don't need one. This is one where I do disagree a bit with the denominations that use the Word "father" for a priest/teacher/pastor, but I do recognize that they're not saying that as in "Father God." The latter aspect is the message here.

You have a thought on the matter, and that is what it is an opinion. I ask you where did that thought/opinion come from?

Did you ever ask Jesus what he thinks about this question?

We all have a right to one’s opinion, but when it comes to the Word of God don’t we need to be careful that what we tell other is from God?

Robbie · Mar 5, 2011

Hey Archeoligist guy...

Instead of telling me to follow the ************ (Which is typically condescending and rude in my opinion) and then analyzing my personality and all my "attitude problems" when you don't even know me you should try just sharing your beliefs... I'm open to letting the Lord destroy any darkness in me and if there's light in your beliefs let the Lord teach me through them... but I personally believe that part of the darkness that He's already destroyed in me was me being taught by men that even though Jesus died on the cross for the sins that separated me from God that I still need to know God through a book and still need to be taught by men. To me this was not only denying what Jesus made possible but also the Spirit that He poured out on me... the Word that's entered... the mind of Christ those who believe receive. But when you come up with all kinds of unwarranted judgments against me based on me sharing my beliefs on a message board I'm pretty much just gonna see you as another person who thinks they know it all when they don't really know me at all...

To everyone who's actually sharing beliefs and discussing them and not making personal judgments....

I personally never think Jesus might have been misunderstood because He disagrees with Paul... I just think Paul hadn't figured it out yet... (If you're interested in quoting this one sentence and then telling me how I'm the devil because I don't believe Paul was perfect don't bother... haha... I've already had people do that to me in the past... I listen to what Paul says about himself... not what people say about Paul)

But here's an example to me of Paul kind of getting it to me

But as it is written:

“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

I like here how Paul gives all credit to the Spirit... first he gives God's Spirit the credtit for revealing what was hidden to us... then he gives God's Spirit credit for searching the deep things of God.... then he says we received the Spirit so that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God... then he says not in words which man's wisdom teaches but that the Holy Spirit teaches giving credit to God as the teacher.... then he says those things about the Spirit are foolishness to the natural man.... then he says we have the mind of Christ... what is someone doing by trying to take a position over another person as their teacher other than saying they have the mind of Christ and you don't... well I relect that... we have the mind of Christ if we've recieved the annointing and don't need anyone to teach us because Christ teaches us because we have His mind... when someone tells me not to believe that I just turn away from them.

Now in this text...

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

I hate when something says it simple and people try and say, "What that's really saying is" but then you talk to those same people and say something simple and they respond to what you never said either... so I guess it makes sense... haha... John doesn't say the apostles or the bible or a man or the scriptures... He gives credit to the anointing they received... simple... and that anointing we received that makes it so we don't need man to teach us is the Holy Spirit... which is in perfect agreement with Jesus when He said...

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Does it say the Spirit will teach us some things? It says all things... Does it say the apostles will teach you? or the bible will teach you? no... it says the Spirit will teach you... I personally understand this truth perfectly because I've known people who had never read the bible that have recieved Jesus and then start saying things that are in exact agreement with what Jesus said... how is that possible? Because when Jesus died on the cross He really did tear down the wall of separation between us and God so God's Word could enter our hearts and we can have the mind of Christ... We can now be taught by God... I hate when men try and tell me different.

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

So I believe I'm not taught by man... I'm taught by God... I have the mind of Christ...

Now would someone like to just share their beliefs instead of trying to assume the place of teacher over me? haha... I've shared my beliefs... I don't need anyone to try and teach me that I'm wrong... if you're right just share your beliefs and may everone hear whoever is in agreement with God... if you beleive we need to be taught by man go ahead and explain why... I personally believe we have direct acces now to the Father... if I have direct access to the Father why would I want to go to some man to supposedly, "Teach me His Word" When the testimony to His Word is that by faith He's already entered me... Christ is in me... so why do I need a man outside of me?

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive

Nomad · Mar 5, 2011

Robbie said:
I personally never think Jesus might have been misunderstood because He disagrees with Paul... I just think Paul hadn't figured it out yet... (If you're interested in quoting this one sentence and then telling me how I'm the devil because I don't believe Paul was perfect don't bother... haha... I've already had people do that to me in the past... I listen to what Paul says about himself... not what people say about Paul)

Well once again... haha..., your sub-Biblical ideas and attitude are detrimental to the Faith... haha... The Apostle Paul wrote nearly two-thirds of the NT. If he got anything wrong, then the majority of the NT is uninspired and unreliable... haha... Your Frank Sinatra christianity (I did it my way) is dangerous and it's a disgrace. Devil? No. Heretic? Yes. May God grant you repentance.

Robbie · Mar 5, 2011

Well.... Moses and Elijah wrote a lot of what was compiled into the bible to... but what did God say to the disciples, "This is my beloved Son... but listen to Moses, Elijah and Paul and if they disagree with my Son He must be wrong" NOT!!! haha He said this is my beloved Son... hear Him... and then there was only Jesus...

and Paul didn't write the bible... Paul wrote letters which were later compiled into the bible...

I believe Jesus is the One we're supposed to listen to...

So now that it seems this is going in the direction of personal attacks I'm done posting about this topic... I've shared my beliefs... I've testified to what Jesus made possible... I can now shake the dust off my feet and move on....

Hope you're blessed...

jacobtaylor · Mar 5, 2011

Nomad said:
Well once again... haha..., your sub-Biblical ideas and attitude are detrimental to the Faith... haha... The Apostle Paul wrote nearly two-thirds of the NT. If he got anything wrong, then the majority of the NT is uninspired and unreliable... haha... Your Frank Sinatra christianity (I did it my way) is dangerous and it's a disgrace. Devil? No. Heretic? Yes. May God grant you repentance.

Becareful now I just got slammed with a 75% warning stat for not tolerating harassment or mocking attitudes or being called an idiot. All from the same group "click" of members.

Devil? No. Heretic? Yes. May God grant you repentance.

It would seem the intention is to keep these members "in need of salvation" at the expense of others that believe in the bible, and teach from it. So don't lose your cool you'll be the one down the road and those that teach heresy will remain.

Nomad · Mar 5, 2011

Jacob T said:
Becareful now I just got slammed with a 75% warning stat for not tolerating harassment or mocking attitudes or being called an idiot. All from the same group "click" of members.

It would seem the intention is to keep these members "in need of salvation" at the expense of others that believe in the bible, and teach from it. So don't lose your cool you'll be the one down the road and those that teach heresy will remain.

Thanks for the advice JT. However, it any "official" sanction or admonition is issued, this will be my last day here. As you said before, respond to a fool and the fool is rewarded.

jacobtaylor · Mar 5, 2011

Nomad said:
Thanks for the advice JT. However, it any "official" sanction or admonition is issued, this will be my last day here. As you said before, respond to a fool and the fool is rewarded.

No problem, during the PMs I read this morning one mode said they had added me as a friend LOL..... I think I was just kissed by Judas

If I don't see ya its been a pleasure to meet you.

jacobtaylor · Mar 5, 2011

Someone just deleted my warning to becareful what you say to archeologist5, so it looks like Im probably gone. They aren't answering my PMs as well.

Should people be called teachers?

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