Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

God's commands expose man's attribute to "act" or man's attribute not to "act"

OR, written another way, God reveals man's ability "to do" something or man's ability "not to do" something

SO God distinguishes an "act", or actions, within commands

BUT God excludes explicit reference to decision or choice in commands

AND Lord Jesus declared "Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart" (Matthew 15:17-18).

AND a variety of muscles within the human body act to produce atmospheric vibration which results in sounds that can be interpreted as words then aggragated together into communication

SO when a person speaks, a person acts

YET Jesus did not say "when a person decides to speak"

NOR did He say "you are able to choose to speak"

RATHER Jesus did say "the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart" (Matthew 15:18)

THEREFORE a person's heart acts

THUS fruit is produced

AND Lord Jesus declared "where your treasure is, there your heart will be also" (Matthew 6:21)

AND the Holy Spirit is precious treasure (John 3:3-8, John 16:7-14)

AND the Spirit of the Living God produces fruit in us believers - the Spirit of Truth is required for us believers to have good fruit (John 15:5, Galatians 5:22-23)

AND Lord Jesus declared "there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil [man] out of the evil [treasure] brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart" (Matthew 6:43-45).

SO like Jesus, we believers must do the will of Our Father (Matthew 6:10)

FOR we believers are not better than Jesus (Matthew 10:24)

AS evidenced by the fact that the will of we believers is worked by Our Father in heaven (Philippians 2:13)

NOT stagger to and fro in autonomous "free will" which is truly "self will" as the unrighteous do (Amos 8:12, Philemon 1:14 and 2 Peter 2:9-10)

BUT the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)

1. "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat" (Genesis 2:17) is a command of action to refrain and abstain

2. "You shall not steal" is a command of action to refrain and abstinence (Exodus 20:15)

3. "Seek" is a command of action to execute and engage (Matthew 7:7)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken said:

UTTER NONSENSE.

CLEARLY the Scripture reveals...
"CHOOSE WHOM YOU WILL SERVE"...

* Will you CHOOSE to SERVE "other gods".
* Will you CHOOSE to SERVE God.



OBVIOUS .... WHOM He Freely CHOSE!



Pfff!
Just as Scripture VERIFIES...
Some Freely CHOOSE to serve other gods.
Some Freely CHOOSE to SERVE GOD.
And those WHO Freely CHOOSE to Serve God, are accounted among a (SET APART) brotherhood of other men, who ALSO FREELY CHOSE GOD!

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

You are promoting a Corruption of Scripture...
That men ARE (without Freewill to CHOOSE GOD)....but rather "ARE forced" by Gods WILL ...to believe in God.

Utter nonsense, and NOT Scriptural.

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You are dead wrong. Joshua does not include "CHOOSE to SERVE God", so your heart wickedly adds to Joshua's words "choose to serve God" where such a phrase does not exist.

It is written "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" (Joshua 24:15).

The "choose" in Joshua 24:15 applies to false gods only. The "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" in Joshua 24:15 is an imperative, NOT an interogative, NOT a clause with Joshua "choosing" God, NOT "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve YHWH", but specifically a declaration of action which is "serve".

YHWH is not mentioned by Joshua for the people to choose in Joshua 24:15, and this aligns up with the Lord Jesus Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15-19, includes salvation).

Not "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve YHWH" as per your heart's thoughts, but truly "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" per scripture.

You think your word is so very important that you dictate to God as you add to and subtract from scripture.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

They did made a choice between serving God or the gods of their fathers or the gods of the Amorites. You cannot take away the truth of that. Not by any way shape or form like you do there in your post. To deny that is to deny the testimony and truth of scriptures, and believing what you think instead according to your natural abilities.

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No scripture states that the people in attendance actually chose the gods of their fathers or that they chose the gods of the Amorites, not in Joshua 24:15, not elsewhere.

I am not necessarily saying that they could not choose the gods of their fathers or the gods of the Amorites.

As this post in this thread shows, all people start life in opposition to God just as Paul wrote "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17), so without the saving work of God a person cannot even see the kingdom of God (John 3:3) hence an unsaved person chases after false gods.

It looks like you just added to scripture again.

That's not freewill, that is bondwill.

Tong2020 said:

If I can show you scriptures that will show you that they indeed have chosen to serve God and not the gods of their fathers and the gods of the Amorites, what would that be to you? Would that bring you to repentance concerning that, towards the truth?

Tong
R3923

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You can't show that they chose God with God's blessing.

The people said "...We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God" (Joshua 24:18).

Joshua declared to the people in response "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE GOD.

The people then said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve YHWH.” (Joshua 24:21).

Joshua responded to the people with “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves YHWH, to serve Him.” (Joshua 24:22)

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY ARE "WITNESSES AGAINST YOURSELVES", SO THEY TESTIFIED TO THE CONDEMNATION OF THEMSELVES.

When a person is a "witness for a defendant", then such a one is a proponent for the defendant; in other words, a witness for the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for justification of the defendant.

When a person is a "witness against a defendant", then such a one is an opponent against the defendant; in other words, a witness against the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for condemnation of the defendant.

The truth is there is no free will in the passage.

Regarding when Joshua said "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him" (Joshua 24:22):

From the time that Joshua commanded "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) until after Joshua's death (Joshua 24:29) and after Othneil (Judges 3:9) and after Ehud (Judges 3:15) and after Shamgar (Judges 3:31) and after Deborah and Barak (Judges 4-5) and after Gideon (Judges 6-8) and after Tola (Judges 10:1) and after Jair (Judges 10:3), it was not until after all that time that...

After all that time it is written "they put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign Gods prior to that time.

Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23.

So there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua.

The truth is no scripture states that man was imparted free will.

You testify against yourself by claiming free will ability to choose God.

Your claim is contrary to the Word of God who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken said:

God chose Adams Form.
God FED Adam Gods Word.
Adam chose to EAT.

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In your heart you just added "chose" to the recorded words in Genesis 3:6, so your action is evil against the Living God.

Taken said:

Jesus chose 12 (already Formed, Naturally Born, adult men).
Those 12 Willingly FOLLOWED Jesus.

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No scripture says the disciples free-willingly followed Jesus.

Taken said:

Jesus FED those 12 men The Word of God.
* 1 Betrayed Jesus

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No scripture states that Judas chose to betray Jesus.

Betray conveys to "move away from" which is the opposite of "move toward"; therefore, Judas is not an example of free-will choosing toward God.

God is in control, just as the disciples said "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur" (Acts 4:27).

The 11 apostles* were never snatched out of Lord Jesus’ Hand (John 10:27-29) for the 11 apostles* hear Christ Jesus the Lord, yet the apostle Judas Iscariot was chosen for a purpose – and that apostle Judas did exactly that which God had the prophets prophesy about Judas.

"I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) was spoken in the presence of the 11 apostles*: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas son of James, by Lord Jesus.

"I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) was NOT spoken in the presence of Judas Iscariot, the betrayer.

Taken said:

* 1 Denied Jesus

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No scripture says that Peter chose to deny Jesus.

Peter was never snatched out of Lord Jesus' Hand (John 10:27-29).

"I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) was spoken to Peter.

Taken said:

* 1 Doubted Jesus

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No scripture says that Thomas chose to doubt Jesus.

Thomas was never snatched out of Lord Jesus' Hand (John 10:27-29).

"I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) was spoken to Thomas.

Taken said:

WHO made those men...
Betray, Deny, Doubt....??? Jesus? God?

According to YOU...Yes, it was Gods WILL who MADE those men...Betray, Deny, Doubt Jesus.

According to SCRIPTURE...Jesus (God in the flesh)... KNEW ...
* 1 WOULD Betray Jesus, and Jesus KNEW WHO that 1 was.
* 1 WOULD Deny Jesus, and Jesus KNEW WHO that 1 was.
* 1 WOULD Doubt Jesus, and Jesus KNEW WHO that 1 was.

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And because Jesus knew who would betray, deny, and doubt Him, then there was no way for Judas, Peter, nor Thomas to avoid that which Jesus knew would come to pass.

Taken said:

According to Scripture
The Lord God IS "ALL KNOWING"...
Man IS "NOT ALL KNOWING".

God KNOWS....
"WHAT" a man WILL FREELY CHOOSE.

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In your heart you wickedly add "God KNOWS WHAT a man WILL FREELY CHOOSE" to the Word of God for the Word says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

No Word of God says man chooses God; therefore, all glory to God alone in man's salvation!

Except in @Taken's heart where @Taken steals God's glory.

Taken said:

MAN "DOES NOT KNOW WHAT he "WILL" FREELY CHOOSE....until he CHOSES.

Peter says....oh, no, no, no....he would NEVER CHOOSE to DENY Jesus...

But the moment, PETER was confronted...
PETER "WAS AFRAID, he would be BODILY KILLED "IF" he CHOSE to "SAY" he WAS one of JESUS' followers, believers IN Jesus' teachings"....

PETER "made" his own FREEWILL CHOICE to DENY even KNOWING JESUS (let alone Believing Jesus)...

The LESSON IS NOT ABOUT men NOT HAVING FREEWILL TO CHOOSE...
(As YOU attempt to demonstrate).

The LESSON IS ABOUT ....
* GOD already KNOWS, what men WILL freely CHOOSE.
* Precisely MEN DO HAVE FREEWILL TO CHOOSE.
* Men WHO CHOOSE to DENY GOD, "FOR (because) of FEAR "that' ANOTHER MAN WILL KILL THEIR BODY".... IS MOOT/IRRELEVANT.
* ALL BODY'S SHALL DIE!
* Doesn't MATTER HOW THEY DIE...
Old age, another man KILLING Their BODY, drowning, Falling off a cliff...
* NO ONE SAVES, a BODY, NOT EVEN GOD!

God SAVES "SOULS"!!!! NOT BODY'S!!!
***A man FREELY CHOOSING TO DENY God...
TO SAVE his BODY from being KILLED...
"IS" a man, WHOSE SOUL WILL NOT BE SAVED!

* YOU completely missed the LESSON.
* YOU attempt to Divert the LESSON to man NOT having FREEWILL.

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Peter ACTED in his denial of Christ as recorded in scripture, yet scripture never indicates that Peter chose to deny Christ, so "the heart of @Taken" opposes the Word (John 1:14) Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Taken said:

* It is Precisely men having the KNOWLEDGE, God DOES NOT SAVE BODY'S...God SAVES SOULS. Don't Worry about WHAT another MAN can DO to your BODY...
Your BODY IS GOING TO DIE!
BE concerned ABOUT YOUR SOUL!
Your SOUL is ONLY Saved BY GOD.
Men CAN NOT Save YOUR SOUL.
DENY GOD...and God WILL NOT Save your SOUL.!!!
CHOOSE ... WITH your OWN FREEWILL...
TO have God Save your SOUL.
OR
Have men allow your BODY to live awhile longer...

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God saves the whole person including mind, soul, and body from the wrath of God for the Lord says "He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other" (Matthew 24:31).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Renniks said:

No, he is telling " you" not to resist God. If " you" was incapable of resisting this would not be a necessary conversation.

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Paul just got through declaring God's Sovereign control of man with "He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Romans 9:18).

Immediately after writing that God is in control Paul continued with "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?'” (Romans 9:19)

Romans 9:18 segues right into Romans 9:19-23.

Bringing these together:

Paul conveyed "God is in control" (Romans 9:18) then the "you" defiantly mocks God's control with "then Only God can obey himself in your theology. They are just puppets for who resists His will?" (Romans 9:19, except everything from "Only" to "puppets" is verbatim from one of your posts to me because your words align so well with the actual Romans 9:19 content).

The "you" in Romans 9:19-20 is the person who rejects God by way of rejecting God's exclusive control of man's salvation; in other words, the "you" is the person that claims man has a free will.

Do not forget that it is written that no purpose of God's can be thwarted (Job 42:2), so scripture reveals that man cannot resist God's will, and Paul knows scripture.

Notice the "you" questioning why God still finds fault. Paul conveys that the "you" asks the fault question in a mocking manner, and the subsequent question about God's will continues with the "you" mocking God who is entirely in control of man's salvation according to Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 for example).

The "you" mocking is certain because immediately after the question about God's will, Paul wrote:

On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? (Romans 9:20)

See the "On the contrary" which is indicative that the following statement of Paul refutes the mocking questions of the "you" about fault and about God's will (in Romans 9:19).

Paul continues immediately after "On the contrary" in Romans 9:20 showing that the thing molded cannot resist the will of the Molder.

The thing molded represents the "you".

The Molder represents God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN CANNOT RESIST GOD'S WILL (ROMANS 9:19-20)!

Behold the parallel of the defiant "you" against God (in Romans 9:19-20) to you @Renniks based upon the content of your post to which I am replying.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

QuickFilly said:

It's interesting that there are all these scriptures that refer to God having predetermined all things. Predestined everything from beginning to end and because he is Sovereign. Even in The Book of Proverbs it tells us that we plan our life but it is God that sets our steps. So in point of fact, given that teaching alone in Proverbs 16:9, "Man proposes, God disposes", that we choose what we're going to do in life, but it is God that makes things happen. Not always according to our choice.

Imagine if humans had a will all their own completely. All those scriptures I mentioned would be pointless and a lie about God's will for us.
Why would people insist God has nothing to do with the outcome of our day to day or life anyway? That seems like an odd track to be on. Worship God for all that God is, then insist our will governs our life entirely and God has nothing to do with it.
I don't think that can even be truly defended with scripture.

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"The heart of man plans his way, but YHWH directs his steps" (Proverbs 16:9) is a wonderful proverb, and the Prophet Amos recorded a wonderful declaration about thought "For, behold, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought" (Amos 4:13).

The Apostle Paul wrote of God working in person's born of God that the person's will and the person's work is the work of God with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

@QuickFilly, it is a blessing from God that you visit this thread for you answered "no" to "Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?".

For consistency in closing, just as the original post shows richly in scripture Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will either.

"knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you" (1 Thessalonians 1:4) wrote Paul the Apostle.

Well, @Taken, there is 1 Thessalonians 1:4 translated accurately from the Greek as shown at this link: [URL='https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_thessalonians/1-4.htm']having known brethren beloved by God the election you[/URL].

See the election (choice) is by God.

Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus, the Living Word (John 1:14).

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) says the Word of God, so persons do not choose God per the Word of God, Lord Jesus Christ!

God makes the choice of specific persons, yet people don't choose God.

God is gracious to save any from the wrath of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

grumix8 said:

Your G-d almighty you discredit everyone and you never made mistakes. Your wrong find the lord within and know he forgives you for you errors. There is decisions and it ahs existed even before the creation and you have made errors on your posts so no one believe in kermos. He is wrong and he is no one to decide only G-d does. ;D

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That is a whole lot of useless "word of @grumix8", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that is yet another post on page 35 with the word of grumix8, and not one scripture quotation to support freewill
(just like this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

Only as per your thinking. And such kind is, as even most, if not all, sees and agrees, a narrow and twisted kind of thinking.

Tong
R3937

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In the referenced post I made to you, I wrote:

The word "choose" is not in 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17), so you are adding choice into the Word of God; furthermore, a command of God is obeyed or disobeyed, so an action occurs, not a choice without explicit expression in the command of God, but fruit occurs.

Your denial of adding "choose" to scripture is proven deception according to the very Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

At least here you admit that what God said in Gen.2:16-17 is a command. I see hope in that.

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That statement of yours demonstrates how cognitively challenged you are for I wrote that Genesis 2:16-17 contains God's command before you joined this thread discussion as well as while you have been in this thread discussion.

Tong2020 said:

<<<Scripture reveals that Adam disobeyed God's command; therefore, scripture reveals Adam's ability to disobey God.>>>

Thank God, you at least admit and know that. I see hope in that.

It amazes me that you seem to not have the ability to see that from the point of Gen.2:16-17, the time between that and Adam’s disobedience, that Adam was in obedience in not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And that during that period, it reveals Adam’s ability to obey God. Well, I pray to God that you would see that as well.

Tong
R3938

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You have confused "not guilty" (innocent) with obedience, more on this in a few paragraphs.

No scripture states that Adam ate of any tree except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

No scripture states that Adam had the opportunity to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), that is until he actually did eat of the tree.

Scripture states that Adam was busy with things like naming the beasts and the birds (Genesis 2:19-20), so scripture reveals Adam's activities.

No scripture states that Adam free willingly obeyed God in the interim time between God issuing the command to Adam (Genesis 2:16-17) until the time Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6),

On the other hand, scripture reveals that in the moments prior to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), during the interim time, Adam had to open his mouth in order to put the fruit of the tree into his mouth.

Before the fruit of the tree touched Adam's mouth, as Adam was closing his mouth on the fruit of the tree, but the fruit had not touched Adam's mouth, at that pre-bite time Adam was not guilty of violating God's command even though his body was working (pre-bite) to receive the fruit of the tree. Adam's guilt occurred when Adam ate the fruit of the tree.

No scripture states that Adam obeyed God regarding God's command that Adam not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).

Scripture does reveal that Adam was guilty of violating God's command that Adam not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).

If you really want to make this more difficult, @Tong2020, then we can start discussing how the creation account does not include the words obedience nor disobedience.

God pronounced Adam's guilt of violating God's command (Genesis 3:17-19).

Since no scripture states that Adam was walking around in obedience to God's command, then it is accurate to say that Adam was walking around not guilty of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil until he actually ate at that tree.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

More repeated false accusations…

As I pointed out, your repeated false accusations will bring you nowhere sir nor will accomplish any good.

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Such a foolish statement for in your statement you claim that the Word of God returns void.

It is written of the Word of God "It will not return to Me void" (Isaiah 55:11).

I have proclaimed to you the Word of God unadulterated by evil men adding "choose" into the Word of God of the creation account (Genesis 1-3) where "choose" does not exist in order for evil men to steal God's exclusive glory in man's salvation in how such evil men contrast with as this post in this thread shows, God is the Benefactor exclusively in control of man's salvation while God's chosen persons are beneficiaries - "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the chosen, whom He chose, He shortened the days" (Mark 13:20).

Tong2020 said:

And repeated statements and false assertions in no time would make those statements and false assertions to be transformed to truth.

Tong
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You call evil good, and you call good evil.

It is written "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20).

In the referenced post I made to you, I wrote:

The word "choose" is not in 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17), so you are adding choice into the Word of God; furthermore, a command of God is obeyed or disobeyed, so an action occurs, not a choice without explicit expression in the command of God, but fruit occurs.

Your denial of adding "choose" to scripture is proven deception according to the very Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

I was about to respond to his response to you. But I thought I’d rather not. It’s just a repeat of much of all his post. I was amazed that he responded with about 400 words to your post of only a single word, that is, “yes” in answer to the question topic.

Thanks for asking, but no, no doubts or fears. I have relatives who are sick, one of cancer, and another of having caught the covid-19 virus, who have diabetes. But not one of my family. We prayed and continue to pray for them. How about you?

Tong
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MatthewG said:

My mother has two kidney stones and has surgery in 3 weeks, thank you for asking friend; will write your name down to prayer list. You are welcome and you have a good day friend. (I kind of feel sick but not overly sick just tired). Going to eat some food may take a nap.

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May the Lord Jesus Christ touch your sick loved ones!

Taken said:

Proclaiming is one thing...Judging is another thing.

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"judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24) declares the Righteous One (1 Peter 3:18) to us His own (John 10:27-29).

The proclamation that God has me making to you is based upon your lawless practice of adding of free will choice toward God into the word of God (this post shows an example of yoyr heart's treasure).

Taken said:

I was not claiming salvation is funny.
How you judge is funny.

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You wrote "Funny" about salvation in your post because in much of this thread God has me proclaiming to you much Word of God that man cannot free will choose Jesus unto being saved from the wrath of God such as this post in this thread shows, God is the Benefactor exclusively in control of man's salvation while God's chosen persons are beneficiaries - "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the chosen, whom He chose, He shortened the days" (Mark 13:20).

Taken said:

Beating a dead horse, does not make your repetition gain interest.

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That sounds like you are denying the power of the Word of God.

The word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken said:

Eh, wrong again.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

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Back to Psalms, @Taken.

for Psalm 65:4 which you brought up earlier in the thread, in your heart you wickedly subtracted "causest to approach unto thee" and added in "WHOM chooses God" (link to the post in this thread that shows where you committed this evil crime against God).

The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God!

CAUSES, not man chooses God, but GOD CAUSES MAN.

Even in Psalm 65:4 that you bring up it proves that man is entirely dependent upon God in every respect for salvation.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 said:

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.


Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.


Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.


Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.


Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.


Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Another proof of an erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly over and over and over, that won’t ever become correct or true.

Tong
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That is a whole lot of useless "word of @Tong2020", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.