Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Aug 15, 2021

The Timeline Of Adam Eating The Fruit - Marking Chronological Milestones

I'm going to do an exercise in chronological time dilation with "she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6), and I'm going to use present tense for illustrative purposes. The actions of Adam and Eve may not be the precisely accurate, but it serves for illustrative purposes.

TIME MARK ALEPH: Eve takes of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK BEYT: Eve swings her arm toward her mouth as her mouth is opening to take a eat.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK GIMAL: Eve bites and eats the fruit.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK DALET: Eve extends her hand containing the fruit toward Adam's hand.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK HEY: Adam receives the fruit in his hand, and Eve withdraws her hand.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK VAV: Adam swings his hand with the fruit in it 25% of the way to his mouth.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK ZAYIN: Adam continues swinging his hand with the fruit in it, and now he has it 50% of the way to his mouth, and Adam is fully aware of God's command not to eat of the fruit (Genesis 2:16-17).

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK CHET: Adam gets the forbidden fruit to 75% of the way to his mouth, and he starts opening his mouth in preparation to eat the forbidden fruit.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK TET: Adam now has the forbidden fruit threee millimeters from his mouth, but the fruit has not touched his lips, teeth, nor tongue.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK YUD: Adam starts contracting his muscles to close his mouth around the forbidden fruit in order to eat the fruit, but his mouth is still not in contact with the fruit.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK KAPH: Adam's mouth comes in contact with the fruit and he bites and he eats the forbidden fruit in disobedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17).

The "Adam is evil" sudden contrajuxtaposition of the "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23), and Adam becomes aware that he is evil, that is, aware of his flesh (Genesis 3:7).

From TIME MARK VAV up to and including TIME MARK YUD, the precept of man defines Adam as good because he had not actually eaten the forbidden fruit, yet the intent to eat of the fruit was in his heart.

Of benefit, the Word of God says wrong desire of the heart is sufficient for sin to occur (Matthew 5:28).

This chronological time dilation illustration represents a valuable spiritual truth. Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because if Adam had been good then Adam would have obeyed God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A couple of intructional points from the creation account are:

left to his own devices, man defies God
man fell out of ignorance about being evil in his flesh

ABOUT CREATION BEING "VERY GOOD"

An inherently good Adam would have assuredly and absolutely excluded eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

BECAUSE an inherently good Adam would have acted in the good way of obedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17)

WITH the good way being God's Way (John 14:6)

YET "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)

AND it is written "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (Genesis 1:31)

BEHOLD that God saw the whole package, the complete creation, the "all" that He had made, that it was very good

BUT God did not specify how the aggregate (all) that He had made was very good therein

AND God did not specify any constituents of creation as being inherently good therein

AND God creating "all that He had made" for God in Jesus Christ to come to earth to save evil man is very good

SO with certainty, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is very good

IN other words, if Adam was inherently good, then he could not have eaten from the tree the knowledge of good and evil

BECAUSE it would have been impossible for an inherently good Adam to disobey God's command of not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

SINCE an inherently good Adam would have been the embodiment of obedience of God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

AND an inherently good Adam would have unquestionably refrained from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil without him having the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22)

THEREFORE an inherently good Adam would have done the opposite of good by eating of the tree the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6)

SO an inherently good Adam would have unavoidably avoided eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

BUT there is none righteous, not one (Psalm 143:2, Romans 3:10)

AND there is none who does good, there is not even one (Psalm 53:3, Romans 3:12)

SO there was no inherently good Adam

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 15, 2021

Kermos said:
"judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24) declares the Righteous One (1 Peter 3:18) to us His own (John 10:27-29).

The proclamation that God has me making to you is based upon your lawless practice of adding of free will choice toward God into the word of God (this post shows an example of yoyr heart's treasure).

You wrote "Funny" about salvation in your post because in much of this thread God has me proclaiming to you much Word of God that man cannot free will choose Jesus unto being saved from the wrath of God such as this post in this thread shows, God is the Benefactor exclusively in control of man's salvation while God's chosen persons are beneficiaries - "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the chosen, whom He chose, He shortened the days" (Mark 13:20).

That sounds like you are denying the power of the Word of God.

The word of God is good unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

You say funny stuff...
What you say are your words.
I never said anything was funny about Gods Word.
I never said anything about Denying Gods Word.
When you attempt to speak for me, it's laughable.

God chose me. I chose God....
God AND I are IN AGREEMENT....
Nothing new...there is NO Agreement between a man and God...until both man and God freely choose to Agree.

Its not complicated...even men do the same.
Without TWO men freely choosing to Agree...
There is NO Agreement.

Taken · Aug 15, 2021

Kermos said:
The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God!

So?
A man can say to a stranger, Hey come here.

Even in Psalm 65:4 that you bring up it proves that man is entirely dependent upon God in every respect for salvation.

That is NOT the discussion.
Gods Gift of Salvation IS HIS GIFT TO GIVE...
Not a newsflash God GIVE HIS GIFTS TO WHOM He wills....and reveals Exactly WHO He wills to receive His Gift....
You know ... the guy who Agrees to receive Gods Gift!

Taken · Aug 15, 2021

Kermos ~
Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because if Adam had been good then Adam would have obeyed God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

FALSE...

Gen 1:
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

JunChosen · Aug 15, 2021

Taken said:
God chose me. I chose God....
God AND I are IN AGREEMENT....
Nothing new...there is NO Agreement between a man and God...until both man and God freely choose to Agree.

As yourself have said... FALSE

Matthew 23:37-38 reads:
37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

So you see, there can be no agreement between God and man, unless God intervenes in his life.

Man is a sinner by nature and can only do evil things, therefore he cannot choose for God because he is spiritually dead.

To God Be The Glory

Tong2020 · Aug 15, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Scripture reveals that Adam disobeyed God's command; therefore, scripture reveals Adam's ability to disobey God.>>>

Thank God, you at least admit and know that. I see hope in that.

It amazes me that you seem to not have the ability to see that from the point of Gen.2:16-17, the time between that and Adam’s disobedience, that Adam was in obedience in not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And that during that period, it reveals Adam’s ability to obey God. Well, I pray to God that you would see that as well.

Click to expand...

You have confused "not guilty" (innocent) with obedience, more on this in a few paragraphs.

No scripture states that Adam ate of any tree except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

No scripture states that Adam had the opportunity to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), that is until he actually did eat of the tree.

Scripture states that Adam was busy with things like naming the beasts and the birds (Genesis 2:19-20), so scripture reveals Adam's activities.

No scripture states that Adam free willingly obeyed God in the interim time between God issuing the command to Adam (Genesis 2:16-17) until the time Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6),

On the other hand, scripture reveals that in the moments prior to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), during the interim time, Adam had to open his mouth in order to put the fruit of the tree into his mouth.

Before the fruit of the tree touched Adam's mouth, as Adam was closing his mouth on the fruit of the tree, but the fruit had not touched Adam's mouth, at that pre-bite time Adam was not guilty of violating God's command even though his body was working (pre-bite) to receive the fruit of the tree. Adam's guilt occurred when Adam ate the fruit of the tree.

No scripture states that Adam obeyed God regarding God's command that Adam not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).

Scripture does reveal that Adam was guilty of violating God's command that Adam not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6).

If you really want to make this more difficult, @Tong2020, then we can start discussing how the creation account does not include the words obedience nor disobedience.

God pronounced Adam's guilt of violating God's command (Genesis 3:17-19).

Since no scripture states that Adam was walking around in obedience to God's command, then it is accurate to say that Adam was walking around not guilty of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil until he actually ate at that tree.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

I agree with you that the word “choice”, “obedience” and “disobedience” and “free will” are not used in the scriptures you referenced at in Genesis.

However I don’t agree with much, if not all, of your conclusions and line of reasoning there.

Now, Gen.2:16-17, is a command. I have to ask you, what does the commander (God) expects from him who is commanded?

Tong
R4022

Tong2020 · Aug 16, 2021

Kermos said:
Such a foolish statement for in your statement you claim that the Word of God returns void.

It is written of the Word of God "It will not return to Me void" (Isaiah 55:11).

I have proclaimed to you the Word of God unadulterated by evil men adding "choose" into the Word of God of the creation account (Genesis 1-3) where "choose" does not exist in order for evil men to steal God's exclusive glory in man's salvation in how such evil men contrast with as this post in this thread shows, God is the Benefactor exclusively in control of man's salvation while God's chosen persons are beneficiaries - "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the chosen, whom He chose, He shortened the days" (Mark 13:20).

https://www.christianityboard.com/posts/1082629/
No you have not, wadr.

Kermos said:
You call evil good, and you call good evil.

It is written "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20).

In the referenced post I made to you, I wrote:

The word "choose" is not in 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17), so you are adding choice into the Word of God; furthermore, a command of God is obeyed or disobeyed, so an action occurs, not a choice without explicit expression in the command of God, but fruit occurs.

Your denial of adding "choose" to scripture is proven deception according to the very Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

<<<You call evil good, and you call good evil.>>>

No I did not and never will.

Tong
R4023

Tong2020 · Aug 16, 2021

Kermos said:
That is a whole lot of useless "word of @Tong2020", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

A lot of words, but like wells without water.

I am looking forward to your response to my post #687 which until now you have not responded to. And it sure makes me wonder.

Tong
R4024

Taken · Aug 16, 2021

JunChosen said:
So you see, there can be no agreement between God and man, unless God intervenes in his life.

Man is a sinner by nature and can only do evil things, therefore he cannot choose for God because he is spiritually dead.

To God Be The Glory

IF a bank offers you a Loan...
and THEN IF you AGREE to the Loan...
Has the Bank AGREED to Loan to you?
Have you AGREED to accept the Loan?

It's not difficult to understand...
There is NO agreement between you and a bank....UNTIL you BOTH AGREE.

It's not difficult to understand....
IF God Offers...which IS Gods Agreement TO GIVE what He OFFERS... IF THEN
A man AGRESS to Gods OFFERING.

Not a Newsflash...
God "OFFERS" TO THE SPIRITUALLY DEAD!
The Spiritually Dead, MUST AGREE TO Accept Gods Offering.

Less you think GOD "offers SAVING to those who are ALREADY SAVED! "

Less you think GOD "does NOT OFFER", but simply FORCES HIS SAVING, "without a mans AGREEMENT".

WHAT SAY YOU?
WHICH IS IT?
God Offers Saving and Man Agrees?
Or
God Forces His Saving, without mans Agreeing.

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
TYPICAL!

@Taken, in the first paragraph I asked a you a question, and in the subsequent paragraphs of the same post I addressed your question to me.

Let me repost it again because of the way that you foolishly responded.

Please see the next post.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
The "THING MOULDED"..."FORMED"...
IS THE BODY .
IS "FORMED" By God.
IS "FORMED" In the Fashion God Decides.
(One body, two arms, two legs, ten fingers, ten toes...Formed By God...
One body, one arm, three legs, conjoined twins....Formed By God...)
* Paul says: The FORMED BODY, is Formed BY God and Gods WILL
and NOT ACCORDING TO A MANS WILL...

Correct...NOT NEWS.

You introduce SALVATION of THAT BODY, IS ALSO ACCORDING to Gods WILL...

So What is YOUR point?
ACCORDING TO GodS WILL...
God SAVES "SOME BODY'S", but NOT "OTHER BODY'S"?

Before I address your question, here's a question for you. Are you saying that God did not create every single human being?

Regarding the thing molded, Paul is talking about the whole person including mind, soul, and body.

According to Paul, the Potter, that is God, produces the vessels, that is persons (Romans 9:21).

Considering the Potter's reign over the vessels, Paul wrote "does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use" (Romans 9:21).

Considering "vessels of wrath", that is the unsaved, Paul wrote "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" (Romans 9:22).

Considering "vessels of mercy", that is the saved by God, Paul wrote "And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Romans 9:23).

Considering "riches of His glory" (Romans 9:23) in this Paul conveys (1) God's salvation imparted to man, (2) God communing with man, (3) God displaying His Marvelous work of man saved from the wrath of God, and (4) Almighty God's control over the whole creation!

Considering "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will" (Romans 9:19), Paul addresses those questions with the answer of "On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, 'Why did you make me like this,' will it" (Romans 9:20).

Here is Paul's writing:

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory (Romans 9:19-23)
By God's grace, I know it is God's plan to save persons whom God is pleased to save from the wrath of God.

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN'S (THING MOLDED) FREEWILL DOES NOTHING FOR SALVATION RATHER GOD (THE MOLDER) EXCLUSIVELY CONTROLS MAN'S SALVATION (Romans 9:19-23)!

The Apostle Peter wrote:

the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile majesties (2 Peter 2:9-10)

IN TRUTH, PETER CONVEYS THAT SELF WILLED PERSONS REVILE GOD'S EXCLUSIVE MAJESTIC SOVEREIGNTY IN MAN'S SALVATION BY THE SELF WILLED PERSON'S DESPISING THE WORD OF GOD "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) AS WELL AS "I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD" (JOHN 15:19, INCLUDES SALVATION).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 16, 2021

Kermos said:
....the way that you foolishly responded.

Did you ask a QUESTION?
REPEAT THE QUESTION.

Did I respond to your QUESTION?
REPEAT MY RESPONSE.

LOL

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
Well as free will is one of the big issues of this thread- what exactly is your point? either Adam ate of his own volition or he didn't. There is no middle ground in that statement

RESPONSE PART 1) No scripture states that Adam was imparted free will by God; therefore, no person subsequent to Adam has an autonomous will. When one of God's creatures claims that Adam a free will, then such a one adds to the Word of God, and adding to the Word of God is the creature calling God a liar.

RESPONSE PART 2) God is very clear about the cause as this post in this thread shows, God declares that Adam listened to the voice of his wife as the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

RESPONSE PART 3) Adam was flesh (Genesis 2:21), so Adam could not free will choose God, and Paul wrote "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).

These response parts are not separate entities, but they need to be taken in aggregate as responsive to your inquiry.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
Stop saying I committed an evil act against God.

Stop saying my heart is wicked.

Speak for yourself Kermos!

Look at your agitation! And you think that you can wickedly add to the Word of God in your heart (as shown here) without God being agitated at you!

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 16, 2021

Kermos ~
Did you ask a QUESTION?
REPEAT THE QUESTION.

Did I respond to your QUESTION?
REPEAT MY RESPONSE.

Kermos failed to respond...

Okay with me...probably not worth repeating.

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
Scripture has identified MANY God has chosen.

God Choosing, does not NEGATE, men also choose God.

Did EVERY man the Lord God chose in Scripture...ALSO Choose the Lord God?

Um, no not all men Chose the Lord God...
And oops...God sent them away from Him!

Your argument is Dead.
God is not the only one who chooses.
Men must also choose God.

The Word of God says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) thus negating that man chooses God unto salvation.

Your post contains no scripture citations, so your post is full of the wicked thoughts of your heart.

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD” (Isaiah 55:8).

Behold, you claim that your way to salvation is by the power of your choice of Jesus; however, the Word of God says that your way is not the Way (John 14:6).

Your final sentence states "Men must also choose God" which contradicts the Word of God for He says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

You very desperately try to steal God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man, so you are engaged in great sin.

Behold how the letters to the Thessalonians work together to show that it is God working in man, not man working in God, but God working in man.

"knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you" (1 Thessalonians 1:4) wrote Paul the Apostle.

"But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:13)

"It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 2:13)

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 16, 2021

Kermos said:
Your post contains no scripture citations,
so your post is full of the wicked thoughts of your heart.

PERSONAL ATTACK.

Behold, you claim that your way to salvation is by the power of your choice of Jesus;

FALSE AND DECEPTIVE.

Your final sentence states "Men must also choose God" which contradicts the Word of God for He says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

FALSE AND DECEPTIVE.

You very desperately try to steal God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man, so you are engaged in great sin.

PERSONAL ATTACK.
FALSE AND DECEPTIVE.

Feel Better...?

Tong2020 · Aug 16, 2021

Kermos said:
The Timeline Of Adam Eating The Fruit - Marking Chronological Milestones

I'm going to do an exercise in chronological time dilation with "she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6), and I'm going to use present tense for illustrative purposes. The actions of Adam and Eve may not be the precisely accurate, but it serves for illustrative purposes.

TIME MARK ALEPH: Eve takes of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK BEYT: Eve swings her arm toward her mouth as her mouth is opening to take a eat.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK GIMAL: Eve bites and eats the fruit.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK DALET: Eve extends her hand containing the fruit toward Adam's hand.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK HEY: Adam receives the fruit in his hand, and Eve withdraws her hand.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK VAV: Adam swings his hand with the fruit in it 25% of the way to his mouth.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK ZAYIN: Adam continues swinging his hand with the fruit in it, and now he has it 50% of the way to his mouth, and Adam is fully aware of God's command not to eat of the fruit (Genesis 2:16-17).

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK CHET: Adam gets the forbidden fruit to 75% of the way to his mouth, and he starts opening his mouth in preparation to eat the forbidden fruit.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK TET: Adam now has the forbidden fruit threee millimeters from his mouth, but the fruit has not touched his lips, teeth, nor tongue.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK YUD: Adam starts contracting his muscles to close his mouth around the forbidden fruit in order to eat the fruit, but his mouth is still not in contact with the fruit.

The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK KAPH: Adam's mouth comes in contact with the fruit and he bites and he eats the forbidden fruit in disobedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17).

The "Adam is evil" sudden contrajuxtaposition of the "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23), and Adam becomes aware that he is evil, that is, aware of his flesh (Genesis 3:7).

From TIME MARK VAV up to and including TIME MARK YUD, the precept of man defines Adam as good because he had not actually eaten the forbidden fruit, yet the intent to eat of the fruit was in his heart.

Of benefit, the Word of God says wrong desire of the heart is sufficient for sin to occur (Matthew 5:28).

This chronological time dilation illustration represents a valuable spiritual truth. Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because if Adam had been good then Adam would have obeyed God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A couple of intructional points from the creation account are:

left to his own devices, man defies God

man fell out of ignorance about being evil in his flesh

ABOUT CREATION BEING "VERY GOOD"

An inherently good Adam would have assuredly and absolutely excluded eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

BECAUSE an inherently good Adam would have acted in the good way of obedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17)

WITH the good way being God's Way (John 14:6)

YET "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)

AND it is written "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (Genesis 1:31)

BEHOLD that God saw the whole package, the complete creation, the "all" that He had made, that it was very good

BUT God did not specify how the aggregate (all) that He had made was very good therein

AND God did not specify any constituents of creation as being inherently good therein

AND God creating "all that He had made" for God in Jesus Christ to come to earth to save evil man is very good

SO with certainty, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is very good

IN other words, if Adam was inherently good, then he could not have eaten from the tree the knowledge of good and evil

BECAUSE it would have been impossible for an inherently good Adam to disobey God's command of not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

SINCE an inherently good Adam would have been the embodiment of obedience of God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

AND an inherently good Adam would have unquestionably refrained from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil without him having the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22)

THEREFORE an inherently good Adam would have done the opposite of good by eating of the tree the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6)

SO an inherently good Adam would have unavoidably avoided eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

BUT there is none righteous, not one (Psalm 143:2, Romans 3:10)

AND there is none who does good, there is not even one (Psalm 53:3, Romans 3:12)

SO there was no inherently good Adam

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

YOU say “Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”.

In other words, Adam was evil (not good) before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Bottom line, YOU are saying that Adam was not inherently good. If one puts that in other words, that would be something like, Adam was inherently evil. For what is not inherently good, could only be inherently evil. The conclusion that one could arrive from what you presented in YOUR post is that, for YOU, God has in fact actually created an inherently evil mankind, that is, the kind of Adam.

What does scriptures say with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

1. it is an offense to God
2. it is disobedience to God
3. it is a transgression
4. it is a sin

God was offended by Adam’s eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why was God offended by Adam with that?

Because Adam have heeded the voice of his wife Eve, and have eaten from the tree of which God commanded him he shall not eat of, this God had done pertaining to Adam. God cursed the ground. In toil Adam shall eat of it all the days of his life. That both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for Adam. And Adam shall eat the herb of the field.
That in the sweat of his face Adam shall eat bread till he return to the ground.

Was that a good thing for Adam?

If not, then that would be some kind of punishment? Something he would have to suffer because of what he did not willingly choose to do, if I were to consider what YOU teach.

Tong
R4026

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
You say funny stuff...
What you say are your words.
I never said anything was funny about Gods Word.
I never said anything about Denying Gods Word.
When you attempt to speak for me, it's laughable.

God chose me. I chose God....
God AND I are IN AGREEMENT....
Nothing new...there is NO Agreement between a man and God...until both man and God freely choose to Agree.

Its not complicated...even men do the same.
Without TWO men freely choosing to Agree...
There is NO Agreement.

"You did not choose Me" (John 15:16) says Jesus Christ, Lord and God (John 20:28); therefore, you chose something other than Jesus.

Since I proclaim the Word of God to you about being saved from the wrath of God, then your "funny" evilly mocks the Word of God.

You are so confused "God is not a man" (Nmbers 23:19) that you can force to save you by choosing God for it is written:

"All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
But He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth;
And no one can ward off His hand
Or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’"
(Daniel 4:37)

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
So?
A man can say to a stranger, Hey come here.

That is NOT the discussion.
Gods Gift of Salvation IS HIS GIFT TO GIVE...
Not a newsflash God GIVE HIS GIFTS TO WHOM He wills....and reveals Exactly WHO He wills to receive His Gift....
You know ... the guy who Agrees to receive Gods Gift!

Look again Psalm 65:4 is not just "come here", rather it is "cause".

For Psalm 65:4 which you brought up earlier in the thread, in your heart you wickedly subtracted "causest to approach unto thee" and added in "WHOM chooses God" (link to the post in this thread that shows where you committed this evil crime against God).

The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God!

CAUSES, not man chooses God, but GOD CAUSES MAN.

Even in Psalm 65:4 that you bring up it proves that man is entirely dependent upon God in every respect for salvation.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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