Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Aug 16, 2021

Free-will is a fool's fantasy fabricated to falsify freedom in Christ Jesus.

Fools force feed their faulty word "choose" into the Word of God.

Such a fool's self-will folly leads to eternal fire (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Fools proclaim that the Word of God is not enough because in their folly they claim that their word is absolutely required for salvation.

Fools steal the glory of God in the salvation of man.

On their own, fools fail to be saved from the wrath of God.

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 16, 2021

Kermos said:
"You did not choose Me" (John 15:16) says Jesus Christ, Lord and God (John 20:28); therefore, you chose something other than Jesus.

LOL

Since I proclaim the Word of God to you about being saved from the wrath of God, then your "funny" evilly mocks the Word of God.

LOL

You are so confused "God is not a man" (Nmbers 23:19) that you can force to save you by choosing God for it is written:

LOL

"All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,

So?

But He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth;
And no one can ward off His hand
Or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’"
(Daniel 4:37)

So?

Taken · Aug 16, 2021

Fools calling other People Fools...
Should talk to a Mirror...

JunChosen · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
WHAT SAY YOU?
WHICH IS IT?
God Offers Saving and Man Agrees?
Or
God Forces His Saving, without mans Agreeing.

God has declared: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." Hosea 4:6.

Your analogy of the bank offering saving is unwarranted. The bank may offer you saving and you accepting, spiritually speaking is a FALSE statement! God NEVER offered salvation to anyone.

The most quoted verse in the world yet is the most misunderstood is John 3:16 there we read:

"For God so loved the world that He gave [NEVER OFFERED] His only Son..."

Keep studying your Bible.

To God Be The Glory

Taken · Aug 16, 2021

JunChosen said:
God has declared: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." Hosea 4:6.

Your analogy of the bank offering saving is unwarranted. The bank may offer you saving and you accepting, spiritually speaking is a FALSE statement! God NEVER offered salvation to anyone.

The most quoted verse in the world yet is the most misunderstood is John 3:16 there we read:

"For God so loved the world that He gave [NEVER OFFERED] His only Son..."

Keep studying your Bible.

To God Be The Glory

WOW....WEIRD!
The Bank analogy was about you agreeing to a loan or not. LOL

Does God offer Salvation?

God NEVER offered salvation to anyone.

Too Bad you missed the MEMO...

Eph 5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through theoffering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no moreoffering for sin.

OFFERING-
to put before another for acceptance or consideration

An OFFERING must be Accepted, or it is NOT received.

If you NOT know WHAT was Offered...
Stands to reason you didn't Accept the Offering.

OOPS.

Tong2020 · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
WOW....WEIRD!
The Bank analogy was about you agreeing to a loan or not. LOL

Does God offer Salvation?

Too Bad you missed the MEMO...

Eph 5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through theoffering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no moreoffering for sin.

OFFERING-
to put before another for acceptance or consideration

An OFFERING must be Accepted, or it is NOT received.

If you NOT know WHAT was Offered...
Stands to reason you didn't Accept the Offering.

OOPS.

The offering was not unto you or me or to any human, but to God.

Tong
R4027

JunChosen · Aug 16, 2021

Taken said:
OFFERING-
to put before another for acceptance or consideration

An OFFERING must be Accepted, or it is NOT received.

If you NOT know WHAT was Offered...
Stands to reason you didn't Accept the Offering.

OOPS

I suggest you re read the passages you've offered [oops, pardon the pun] because it does not stipulate what you "think" those passages are saying!

To God Be The Glory

JunChosen · Aug 16, 2021

Tong2020 said:
The offering was not unto you or me or to any human, but to God.

Exactly my sentiments. Salamat

Tong2020 · Aug 16, 2021

JunChosen said:
Exactly my sentiments. Salamat

Walang ano man po.

Tong
R4030

JunChosen · Aug 16, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Walang ano man po.

No need to say "po" for we stand on the same ground with the Lord, although I know what you mean.

To God Be The Glory

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

Taken said:
You say funny stuff...
What you say are your words.
I never said anything was funny about Gods Word.
I never said anything about Denying Gods Word.
When you attempt to speak for me, it's laughable.

God chose me. I chose God....
God AND I are IN AGREEMENT....
Nothing new...there is NO Agreement between a man and God...until both man and God freely choose to Agree.

Its not complicated...even men do the same.
Without TWO men freely choosing to Agree...
There is NO Agreement.

It is now time to elaborate about your assertion that the relationship God established with man is an "Agreement".

You declared that God establishes an agreement (contract) with man choosing God unto man's salvation, yet no scripture supports your assertion.

The Word of God declares that God establishes a covenant with man by His word "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20).

COMPARE AND CONTRAST "CONTRACT" AND "COVENANT"

CONTRACT:
(1) A two-party.contract is an agreement between two parties in which each party provides valuable consideration to the other party.
(2) This contract type is an exchange of treasure.
(3) This contract type represents mutual promise as well as mutual obligation.
(4) Both parties actively engage in this contract type.

COVENANT:
(1) A two-party covenant is a promise of valuable consideration by a first party to a second party (see Luke 22:20 below for scriptural application).
(2) This covenant type is a transfer of treasure (see Luke 1:72-74 below for scriptural application).
(3) This covenant type represents the first party promise as well as the first party's obligation (see Hebrews 6:13 below for scriptural application)
(4) The first party actively engages in this covenant type, and the second party passively receives in this covenant type (see Romans 4:8-10 below for scriptural application).

Romans 4:8-10
8 "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account."
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.”
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.

Hebrews 6:13
For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself

Luke 1:72-74
72 And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to Abraham our father,
74 To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies, might serve Him without fear.

Luke 22:20
"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood"

You are confused that God establishes a contract with man in thoughts of your heart.

Truly, God establishes a covenant with man according to the Word of God.

This post is a continuation of this post, and these posts are meant to be taken as a whole.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
The offering was not unto you or me or to any human, but to God.

Tong
R4027

You can speak for yourself, but not me.

*God SENT His Holy Word to Earth;
*In a BODY God Prepared;
*That BODY accomplished all it was Sent to do.
*That WAS Gods accomplished WORKS.
*Thereafter, the Teaching IS;
ANY man can ACCEPT or REJECT the "offering" of Gods WORKS accomplished "by, through, of" THAT BODY.

* HOW, (ie the WAY) any man "CAN ACCEPT" Gods "OFFERING", is explicitly taught IN Scripture.
* ANY man ACCEPTING Gods Offering:
IS BY the mans own heartful FREEWILL,
IS establishing a FOREVER STANDING relationship,
Between that one man, and the Lord God Almighty Himself.

* It needs be:
Gods Accomplished Works,
Gods Offering,
A Mans freely agreeable Acceptance, (Receiving)
....otherwise it is FORCE.

* If you have ANY semblance, likeness to God Himself...
it does not matter whom you Love, whom you Choose, whom you OFFER your hand in marriage, whom YOU will, wish, desire to be YOKED WITH FOREVER
.... IF "they" do NOT reciprocate and Freely, Heartfully, ALSO, accept "your offer" and "Choose" you.

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Taken said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
The offering was not unto you or me or to any human, but to God.

Click to expand...

You can speak for yourself, but not me.

*God SENT His Holy Word to Earth;
*In a BODY God Prepared;
*That BODY accomplished all it was Sent to do.
*That WAS Gods accomplished WORKS.
*Thereafter, the Teaching IS;
ANY man can ACCEPT or REJECT the "offering" of Gods WORKS accomplished "by, through, of" THAT BODY.

* HOW, (ie the WAY) any man "CAN ACCEPT" Gods "OFFERING", is explicitly taught IN Scripture.
* ANY man ACCEPTING Gods Offering:
IS BY the mans own heartful FREEWILL,
IS establishing a FOREVER STANDING relationship,
Between that one man, and the Lord God Almighty Himself.

* It needs be:
Gods Accomplished Works,
Gods Offering,
A Mans freely agreeable Acceptance, (Receiving)
....otherwise it is FORCE.

* If you have ANY semblance, likeness to God Himself...
it does not matter whom you Love, whom you Choose, whom you OFFER your hand in marriage, whom YOU will, wish, desire to be YOKED WITH FOREVER
.... IF "they" do NOT reciprocate and Freely, Heartfully, ALSO, accept "your offer" and "Choose" you.

<<<You can speak for yourself, but not me.>>>

I don’t speak for you.

All you need to do is read again the very scriptures you quoted to show your belief that salvation was offered. I only told you that those very scriptures refutes your belief. A case of misunderstanding what those verses say. Could easily be rectified by a careful reading.

Tong
R4032

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<You can speak for yourself, but not me.>>>

I don’t speak for you.

post # 766
The offering was not unto you

Click to expand...

Uh, Yes it was.
So, no, do not speak FOR ME.

All you need to do is read again the very scriptures you quoted to show your belief that salvation was offered. I only told you that those very scriptures refutes your belief. A case of misunderstanding what those verses say. Could easily be rectified by a careful reading.

Tong
R4032

Click to expand...

I was Offered, Gods Gifts.
I was NEVER Forced to agree, to take, receive, have, Gods Gift of Salvation.

IF you have "received" Gods Gift of Salvation...
Please explain "if, how, by what method", that Gift was (rather than OFFERED)...
BUT....FORCED upon, to, in you...
WITHOUT your agreement of consent.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

JunChosen said:
I suggest you re read the passages you've offered [oops, pardon the pun] because it does not stipulate what you "think" those passages are saying!

To God Be The Glory

I was Offered, Gods Gifts.
I was NEVER Forced to agree, to take, receive, have, Gods Gift of Salvation.

IF you have "received" Gods Gift of Salvation...
Please explain "if, how, by what method", that Gift was (rather than OFFERED)...
BUT....FORCED upon, to, in you...
WITHOUT your agreement of consent.

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Taken said:
I was Offered, Gods Gifts.
I was NEVER Forced to agree, to take, receive, have, Gods Gift of Salvation.

IF you have "received" Gods Gift of Salvation...
Please explain "if, how, by what method", that Gift was (rather than OFFERED)...
BUT....FORCED upon, to, in you...
WITHOUT your agreement of consent.

First, you have to show scriptures that supports your position that God offered you gifts for your acceptance or refusal. Else, your question to me is baseless.

Tong
R4034

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
It is now time to elaborate about your assertion that the relationship God established with man is an "Agreement".

You declared that God establishes an agreement (contract) with man choosing God unto man's salvation, yet no scripture supports your assertion.

Its NOT a new concept..
Secularly:
You decide what you WANT...
A loan...okay, "IF" you sign a document...
.................you are Ageeing!
Enroll in a school, "IF" you sign a document..
.................you are Agreeing!
Purchase a home, "IF" you sign a document..
.................you are Agreeing!

"IF" you ARE "WISE", you will FIRST READ, discover, KNOW, all the conditions and requirements YOU ARE AGREENING TO, BEFORE you sign the agreement document!

Spiritually:
SAME method...
* A wise man hears, learns, reads, decides "IF" he is willing and SURE to "AGREE" with the OFFER.
* A "heartfully" WILLING man..."AGREES" with HIS WORD" ...not signing a document!

The Word of God declares that God establishes a covenant with man by His word "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20).

Yep. Gods Works, Gods Offer....
AND....are you FORCED to DRINK Gods Offering...? No.

Jesus Offered His Disciples his Cup, and said DRINK.......IF.......you are able. <---- that is an offering, not a Force.

COMPARE AND CONTRAST "CONTRACT" AND "COVENANT"

Do YOU make the CONTRACT....for a loan, for enrolling in school, for buying a home?
NO...the Bank MAKES the CONTRACT...the School MAKES the CONTRACT...the Seller MAKES the CONTRACT....
YOU simply have to AGREE to the CONTRACT, and DO SO, by signing your name.
AND....if YOU READ a "man-made" CONTRACT Carefully...
YOU are held accountable to fufilled YOUR agreement......EVEN WHEN...
A Bank, A School, A Seller...MAY DEFAULT, MAY Change the TERMS

A Covenant of God...IS a PROMISE, God WILL NOT "DEFAULT" on His PROMISE. His TERMS DO NOT CHANGE!

Your posted Scriptures, had nothing to do with TWO parties AGREEING.

Scripture teaches....
THE Offering is Gods Works.
The man is instructed to KNOW what Gods Offer is...
HEAR;
The man is instructed to BE SURE BEFORE he Chooses to Agree with Gods Offering.

2 Pet 1:
[10]....give diligence to make your calling and election sure

I Can'T SPEAK FOR YOU.
Nor can YOU Speak FOR ME.
Don't Agree with YOU.

By and through Gods Works, God Himself Offered me Salvation.
I Heard what God Offered.
I Learned HOW He taught to Accept His Offering.
I Freely Chose to ACCEPT His Offering.
I Called on the Lords NAME, to Notifiy HIM of MY heartfully assured word of Agreement.
And I TRUST, according to Gods Word... that "IF" I heartfully agreed to Accept His OFFERING...
"THEN" by and through Gods Word and Power, I would RECEIVE, once and forever, Gods Offered Gifts.

IF you have received Gods offered Gift of Salvation...I can not say....but appears doubtful ... since you could not plainly say, nor do you preach any semblance of HOW a man receives Gods Gift of Forgiveness, Salvation, Quickening, Sealing, Keeping according to God.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
First, you have to show scriptures that supports your position that God offered you gifts for your acceptance or refusal. Else, your question to me is baseless.

Tong
R4034

Not surprised...
What you have done is ... disagreed, and accused.

I asked for your position...zip.
You reply .... no wait...first I should show you verification for my position.

Why? I am not concerned that you disagree with me.

Why do you think I own an answer First, to a question that I asked First?

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Taken said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
First, you have to show scriptures that supports your position that God offered you gifts for your acceptance or refusal. Else, your question to me is baseless.

Click to expand...

Not surprised...
What you have done is ... disagreed, and accused.

I asked for your position...zip.
You reply .... no wait...first I should show you verification for my position.

Why? I am not concerned that you disagree with me.

Why do you think I own an answer First, to a question that I asked First?

What accusation are you crying about? I have disagreed but I did not make any accusation.

You asked me for an explanation, an explanation of something I did not say. For I never said that God forced you or anyone to agree, to take, receive, have, Gods Gift of Salvation.

And so, I ask you to give scriptures that supports your position that salvation was an offer by God to you, for your acceptance or refusal. For that was our issue. You previously gave scriptures which you seem to have provided in support of your contention that salvation is offered by God. For which I pointed out to you that the scriptures you provided does not say what you contend and that they in fact refutes your contention. For those scriptures speak of Christ’s sacrificial death as an offering to God and not to the sinner.

But that apparently seems to be a problem for you. For perhaps you can’t show scriptures that supports your contention that salvation is offered by God to us.

Now you seem to argue that away by asking me to explain something I did not say.

Now, since you evidently could not support your contention with scriptures , I’ll move on to address your question.

You said “IF you have "received" Gods Gift of Salvation...
Please explain "if, how, by what method", that Gift was (rather than OFFERED)...
BUT....FORCED upon, to, in you...
WITHOUT your agreement of consent.”

Salvation is not forced upon me by God in any way, shape or form. It was given me. How? He had quickened my spirit, enabling me to understand the gospel of Christ and the message of the cross, convicted me of sin, righteousness, and judgment, brought me to repent unto Him, giving me faith towards Jesus Christ, and trust in Him. And thanks be to God, He saved me! And that is by His grace, and not by anything that comes from me nor any that I have done.

Tong
R4035

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
What accusation are you crying about?

Boo hoo, I was not crying. You asked, I quoted you. And then you make "your crying" comment and asked again, what you had spoke including "me" in your comment.

I have disagreed but I did not make any accusation.

When you included me, yes, that was includeing me, in your point of view, I do not agree with.

For I never said that God forced you or anyone to agree, to take, receive, have, Gods Gift of Salvation.

You can speak for yourself...
I am curious...
* If you claim, to have received Gods Gift of Salvation...
* IF so, by what method DID you receive HIS GIFT...
* By your Agreement?
if not By your Agreement, BY Force?....if not by Force?....then HOW?

But that apparently seems to be a problem for you. For perhaps you can’t show scriptures that supports your contention that salvation is offered by God to us.

Not a problem for me....

Now you seem to argue that away by asking me to explain something I did not say.

Correct...you have not claimed to have received Salvation....nor said the Method of HOW, IF you have....and that is what I was asking you....

Now, since you evidently could not support your contention with scriptures , I’ll move on to address your question.

Error, it was not "COULD NOT"....it was "WOULD NOT'.

You said “IF you have "received" Gods Gift of Salvation...
Please explain "if, how, by what method", that Gift was (rather than OFFERED)...
BUT....FORCED upon, to, in you...
WITHOUT your agreement of consent.”

Salvation is not forced upon me by God in any way, shape or form. It was given me. How? He had quickened my spirit, enabling me to understand the gospel of Christ and the message of the cross, convicted me of sin, righteousness, and judgment, brought me to repent unto Him, giving me faith towards Jesus Christ, and trust in Him. And thanks be to God, He saved me! And that is by His grace, and not by anything that comes from me nor any that I have done.[/QUOTE

OKAY...
So , (is this correct?) God has a Gift of Salvation..
You did not have to agree to receive His gift, nor was it forced upon you (given you without your consent)....but you received His gift...
Without ever agreeing... eh?

I became fully aware of Gods Gift of Salvation, and Called ON HIS NAME, and MADE A True Heartful Confession OF my Word being IN Agreement with the Lords Word, and Agreement to Accept His Offering....ACCORDING TO HIS WORD.

His OFFER....WAS "IF" I heartfully agreed...
"THEN" He would give His Offered Salvation TO ME.

THIS IS Gods TERMS...of HOW TO ACCEPT His OFFERING...BY YOUR WORD.
"IF"...
Required CONFESSION and Required BELIEF IN ONE HEART.

I was aware of my freewill to CHOOSE Him.

Josh 24;
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,choose you this day whom ye will serve;

I was aware my choosing Him was by my word of heartfully Confessing TO HIM.

Heb 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I was Aware of His WARNING to BE SURE of my Agreeing.

2 Pet 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Rom 10
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

I was Aware God would Verify that my Agreeing WAS TRUE or NOT.

Rev 2
[23] And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

So ya....I am aware of WHO Offered Salvation IS God....His Offering was To me....I accepted His Offering According to HIS WAY...
Choosing Him, Calling on Him, Confessing with my Hearts Belief In Him, Sure of My Choice, Election, Calling unto Him...and IN Full Agreement WITH HIM.

Apparently...you made no choice, no calling, no confession, no agreeing....
Apparently....you simply have Gods Gift of Salvation....because it was made available BY God...

NOT what Scriture teaches.

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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