Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

Did God's Plan A Fail - Forcing God To Spontaneously Develop Plan B?

According to the "good Adam" teaching, God had an original plan for Adam to live forever in the paradise on earth where Adam was made, and it is just termed the Good Plan until Adam ate the fruit.
I equate "spiritually alive", "upright", "perfect", "righteous" and the like with "good" for the purposes of this sidebar.

Advocating the "good Adam" precept advocates the concept of good people converting to evil people; in other words, a GOOD Adam conquering a GOOD command of God in order to convert to an EVIL Adam.

The "good Adam" precept goes with the GOOD God being surprised by the GOOD Adam destroying the GOOD God's GOOD Plan A of the GOOD Adam living forever in God's GOOD paradise, so the GOOD God in a panic abandoned the GOOD Plan A to develop a GOOD Plan B to expel the EVIL Adam from paradise into a CURSED land with the GOOD promise of a Redeemer. The GOOD Plan A stopped being GOOD Plan A, so that means GOOD Plan A converted to EVIL plan A since the GOOD Adam caused GOOD Plan A to error out.

So, the "good Adam" precept conveys that God unwittingly created everything only to have it catastrophically crumble right in front of God. By the hand of man taken away from God. With God at the mercy of man. Unmercy perhaps being a better word.

This means GOOD God produced an imperfect plan, formerly GOOD Plan A now EVIL plan A; in other words, the GOOD God's GOOD Plan A failed with a spiritually alive Adam lost to be spiritually dead; in other words , the "good Adam" precept has it that GOOD Adam thwarted GOOD God, so GOOD God was too small to preserve GOOD Plan A, so GOOD God converted to EVIL god (this is following to where the "good Adam" precept leads), and EVIL god was incapable of preserving a spiritually alive person.

See that the "good Adam" precept has man snatching the "very good" of creation right out of God's hand; not only that, the man acts self-destructively during the snatching.

The "good Adam" precept has a good man doing the action of an evil man, so that is not a good man.

The "good Adam" doctrine leads to a different god than revealed by the Word of God.

The "good Adam" precept grossly distorts good and evil. The "good Adam" precept is confusion in the knowledge of good and evil.

In conclusion, the supporters of the "good Adam" precept advocate for good people converting to evil people which is absent from the entirety of the scripture; on the other hand, the Word of God is replete with God converting evil people into good people in Christ.

Moreover, God is good, and God's Way is good. Man is evil, yet God works all things out for good for the man of God's Way.

In actuality, with God there is no plan B - God is mightier than that. God's plan for the Redemption of Mankind through the Christ succeeds and is victorious, and this is God's plan before the foundation of the world.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Joshua 24:22 So Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen the Lord for yourselves, to serve Him.”

And they said, “We are witnesses!”

There it is. That clearly is a case of a choosing by the people of God for themselves to serve. That’s just the point there.

Click to expand...

The people are NOT God, and the people are not God imparting the people with the ability to choose God, rather that is the people somewhat concurring with Joshua's words of “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves YHWH, to serve Him.” (Joshua 24:22).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY ARE "WITNESSES AGAINST YOURSELVES", SO THEY TESTIFIED TO THE CONDEMNATION OF THEMSELVES.

When a person is a "witness for a defendant", then such a one is a proponent for the defendant; in other words, a witness for the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for justification of the defendant.

When a person is a "witness against a defendant", then such a one is an opponent against the defendant; in other words, a witness against the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for condemnation of the defendant.

The truth is there is no free will in the passage.

As I said, that such clearly is a case of a choosing by the people of God for themselves to serve. And that point of that passage remains.

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Joshua 24:24 And the people said to Joshua, “The Lord our God we will serve, and His voice we will obey!”

25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and made for them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

Clearly, verse 24 affirms what their choice was. And Joshua even made a covenant with the people to that effect.

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, Joshua made a covenant with the people. That does not say God made a covenant with the people.

Moving along.

The people said "...We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God" (Joshua 24:18).

Joshua declared to the people in response "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE GOD.

You can't show that they chose God with God's blessing because scripture does not state such.

What those scriptures say remains to affirm what they have chosen. That’t just my point there.

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Joshua 24:26 Then Joshua wrote these words in the Book of the Law of God. And he took a large stone, and set it up there under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the Lord. 27 And Joshua said to all the people, “Behold, this stone shall be a witness to us, for it has heard all the words of the Lord which He spoke to us. It shall therefore be a witness to you, lest you deny your God.”

A stone witness. Nevertheless, a witness to the choice they made.

Joshua 24:31 Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, who had known all the works of the Lord which He had done for Israel.

And so Israel, did as they have chosen, served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, living up to their choice of God, to serve Him.

That’s scriptures.

Click to expand...

Joshua 24:31 does not say that the people exclusively served God, in fact, the scripture continues on to reveal that the people in attendance at Joshua's exchange with the people recorded in Joshua 24:1-28 - that the people in attendance did not do as Joshua commanded them.

Regarding when Joshua said "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him" (Joshua 24:22):

From the time that Joshua commanded "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) until after Joshua's death (Joshua 24:29) and after Othneil (Judges 3:9) and after Ehud (Judges 3:15) and after Shamgar (Judges 3:31) and after Deborah and Barak (Judges 4-5) and after Gideon (Judges 6-8) and after Tola (Judges 10:1) and after Jair (Judges 10:3), it was not until after all that time that...

After all that time it is written "they put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign gods prior to that time.

Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23.

So there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua.

Because the people in attendance did not "put away the foreign gods" (Joshua 24:23), then:

(1) those people proved the word of Joshua true that those people were not able to serve YHWH, "for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19) and

(2) those people were not FULLY serving God or

(3) those people were partially serving God and

(4) those people were not loving YHWH God with all their heart and with all their soul and with all their strength (Deuteronomy 6:5) and

(5) a little leaven leavens the whole loaf so

(6) those people's choice is scripturally demonstrated to be invalid.

What those scriptures in Joshua 24:31 remains. And they are clear enough for me. That Israel, did as they have chosen, served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, living up to their choice of God, to serve Him.

Tong
R4048

Tong2020 · Aug 18, 2021

Taken said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
The scriptures you gave does not tell your story.

According to scriptures, Jesus is the Seed of Abraham, the prophet God promised to Israel, their Messiah. He was not given to Israel to offer them salvation, but was given as their Messiah, their salvation, their Savior.

Click to expand...

I am not required to copy all related texts or read or study or understand for you.

I am well aware of WHO the SEED of GOD is, and WHO that SEED was offered to, given to, and continues to be offered and given and receive and how and why.

I bear no responsibility for what you know, do not know, believe, do not believe.

God created and made all things.
And from the beginning Much of Gods "MAKING" was DIVIDING things He created.
Jesus espressly Continued the DIVISION...

Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

John.7
[43] So there was a division among the people because of him.

It's no different today.
Choose Christ Jesus' WAY, or be divided AWAY from him.

No you don’t have to that. And I was not asking you to do that. But it would be beneficial for those who visit and read this thread when Bible references are cited.

<<<I am well aware of WHO the SEED of GOD is, and WHO that SEED was offered to, given to, and continues to be offered and given and receive and how and why.>>>

The Seed of Abraham, that is, Christ was not offered nor is continued to be offered. Christ came to accomplish the salvation of God, not to offer the salvation of God.

<<<I bear no responsibility for what you know, do not know, believe, do not believe.>>>

Yes are not. And nobody is saying you are.

<<<God created and made all things.
And from the beginning Much of Gods "MAKING" was DIVIDING things He created.

Perhaps. But only after the fall of Adam.

Tong
R4049

Tong2020 · Aug 18, 2021

Taken said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Not saying in any way shape or form that you were not chosen by God.

To the contrary I presume you were chosen. Chosen for salvation. And if chosen, then foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified. There is no reason for me to presume otherwise. For you profess to believe in God and Jesus Christ. And only God have the power to know and judge your heart, with absolute certainty and in all righteousness, not me nor any man for that matter.

Click to expand...

I was chosen...and I also chose.
And true. I can speak my choice.
You can observe (miminally) what I do.
You and I have no access to observe one anothers lifestyle.
Agree, Ultimate Judgement rests with the Lord. His evidence. His books. His glorification. His damnation. All expressly revealed.

Glory to God,
Taken

God loved me, that He chose me for salvation, was foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and glorified.

God loves me, not that I loved Him first. But that because He first loved me.

God chose me, not that I chose Him, nor because I am righteous, nor because of anything I have done. But that because He loves me. In fact, God demonstrated His great love for me, in that, while I was yet unborn, have done nothing good or bad, Jesus Christ died for me. And I think that goes as well for all those who were save and are being saved and will be saved.

Tong
R4050

Taken · Aug 18, 2021

Tong2020 said:
The Seed of Abraham, that is, Christ was not offered nor is continued to be offered. Christ came to accomplish the salvation of God, not to offer the salvation of God.

* God "Gave" His Word (verbally) to mankind (Adam) 6,000 years ago.

Gen 1
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

* God "Gave" His Word (in the Likeness Appearance as a man) to mankind (Abraham)
4,000 years ago.

Gen 18:
[1] And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
[2] And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

* God "Gave" His Word (in the Likeness Appearence as a man, with a Name, with knowledge, He "would be Called";

TO Joseph;
Matt 1
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

TO Mary;
Luke.1
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

TO Mary;
Luke 1
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest ...

TO Mary;
Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

THAT HOLY THING...Which came forth OUT FROM GODS MOUTH: Appeared TO:
Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Mary (and others) (in the LIKENESS AS A MAN)...
IS THE WORD OF GOD.

TO Isaiah;
Isaiah 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

* God GIVES the WORLD KNOWLEDGE...
* men CHOOSE to Believe Gods Knowledge....OR NOT.
* Gods GIVING...IS Gods WORKS.
* men BELIEVING...IS mans FREEWILL.
* "IF" a man CHOOSES to "heartfully" BELIEVE Gods Works...AND "confesses" his BELIEF of Gods Word, Gods Work...
* "THEN" shall that man "RECEIVE" Gods OFFERING of SALVATION.
* Can't speak FOR YOU.
* I Speak for myself. I am in agreement with Scripture.
That the Word of God came forth out from Gods mouth, to the World.
That the Word of God OFFERED the world SALVATION...."IF" the world believes IN Him, "IF" the world CONFESSES, Heartful Belief in Him.
* THAT HOLY THING GOD GAVE TO THE WORLD....IS GODS WORKS....and has nothing to DO WITH a mans FREEWILL...
TO CHOOSE to BELIEVE, Gods Works.
* "IF" is notice of mans "OPTION".
* "OFFERING" of Jesus' Body, was clearly understood and taught, by Jesus' own chosen Disciples.
* I am abundantly aware...OF people expressly mentioned IN Scripture, by name, by titles...WHO freely Accepted Gods Word and Works...WHO freely Rejected Gods Word and Works.
* I am well informed...OF people TODAY "IN" the World WHO have freely Chosen to Accept Gods Word and Works.
* I am well informed....OF people TODAY "OF" the World WHO have freely Chosen to Reject Gods Word and Works.

God GIVING His Salvation to the WHOLE WORLD...IS NOTICE, His Salvation IS OFFERED TO the WHOLE World.

IF reveals the OPTION for INDIVIDUAL mankind "OF" the World ...
TO Accept Gods OFFERING of SALVATION...
OR Reject Gods OFFERING of SALVATION.

*** Nothing whatsoever, reveals Gods Offering of Salvation IS Given INDIVIDUAL men, Against their will, without the Individuals Consent;
to receive His Gift of Salvation.

IF YOU, think YOU received Gods Gift of Salvation "WITHOUT" your freewill confession, consenting to Accept His Offering.... according to Scripture...
You are mistaken.

Jesus Himself, gave us an example of many men WHO, use the Name of Jesus, without themselves, EVER having "called on the Lord", confessing "their" believe IN HIM...and the Fact is, they are SHUT OUT, from being with Jesus....BECAUSE...since they do NOT KNOW Jesus, Neither did Jesus KNOW THEM.

Matt 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

THE WILL OF THE FATHER...IS to freely Choose, to Believe and to call on the Lord and Confess Heartful Believe, which is HOW a man receives Gods Offering of Salvation.

Perhaps. But only after the fall of Adam.

Disagree. (Regarding division)
God began DIVIDING in the beginning, Before mankind was created and made.
Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Tong2020 · Aug 18, 2021

Taken said:
* God "Gave" His Word (verbally) to mankind (Adam) 6,000 years ago.

Gen 1
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

* God "Gave" His Word (in the Likeness Appearance as a man) to mankind (Abraham)
4,000 years ago.

Gen 18:
[1] And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
[2] And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

* God "Gave" His Word (in the Likeness Appearence as a man, with a Name, with knowledge, He "would be Called";

TO Joseph;
Matt 1
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

TO Mary;
Luke.1
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

TO Mary;
Luke 1
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest ...

TO Mary;
Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

THAT HOLY THING...Which came forth OUT FROM GODS MOUTH: Appeared TO:
Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Mary (and others) (in the LIKENESS AS A MAN)...
IS THE WORD OF GOD.

TO Isaiah;
Isaiah 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

* God GIVES the WORLD KNOWLEDGE...
* men CHOOSE to Believe Gods Knowledge....OR NOT.
* Gods GIVING...IS Gods WORKS.
* men BELIEVING...IS mans FREEWILL.
* "IF" a man CHOOSES to "heartfully" BELIEVE Gods Works...AND "confesses" his BELIEF of Gods Word, Gods Work...
* "THEN" shall that man "RECEIVE" Gods OFFERING of SALVATION.
* Can't speak FOR YOU.
* I Speak for myself. I am in agreement with Scripture.
That the Word of God came forth out from Gods mouth, to the World.
That the Word of God OFFERED the world SALVATION...."IF" the world believes IN Him, "IF" the world CONFESSES, Heartful Belief in Him.
* THAT HOLY THING GOD GAVE TO THE WORLD....IS GODS WORKS....and has nothing to DO WITH a mans FREEWILL...
TO CHOOSE to BELIEVE, Gods Works.
* "IF" is notice of mans "OPTION".
* "OFFERING" of Jesus' Body, was clearly understood and taught, by Jesus' own chosen Disciples.
* I am abundantly aware...OF people expressly mentioned IN Scripture, by name, by titles...WHO freely Accepted Gods Word and Works...WHO freely Rejected Gods Word and Works.
* I am well informed...OF people TODAY "IN" the World WHO have freely Chosen to Accept Gods Word and Works.
* I am well informed....OF people TODAY "OF" the World WHO have freely Chosen to Reject Gods Word and Works.

God GIVING His Salvation to the WHOLE WORLD...IS NOTICE, His Salvation IS OFFERED TO the WHOLE World.

IF reveals the OPTION for INDIVIDUAL mankind "OF" the World ...
TO Accept Gods OFFERING of SALVATION...
OR Reject Gods OFFERING of SALVATION.

*** Nothing whatsoever, reveals Gods Offering of Salvation IS Given INDIVIDUAL men, Against their will, without the Individuals Consent;
to receive His Gift of Salvation.

IF YOU, think YOU received Gods Gift of Salvation "WITHOUT" your freewill confession, consenting to Accept His Offering.... according to Scripture...
You are mistaken.

Jesus Himself, gave us an example of many men WHO, use the Name of Jesus, without themselves, EVER having "called on the Lord", confessing "their" believe IN HIM...and the Fact is, they are SHUT OUT, from being with Jesus....BECAUSE...since they do NOT KNOW Jesus, Neither did Jesus KNOW THEM.

Matt 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

THE WILL OF THE FATHER...IS to freely Choose, to Believe and to call on the Lord and Confess Heartful Believe, which is HOW a man receives Gods Offering of Salvation.

Disagree. (Regarding division)
God began DIVIDING in the beginning, Before mankind was created and made.
Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

I have a question for you in connection to the matter of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross.

To whom did Jesus offered His body as a an atoning sacrifice for sin and for the forgiveness of sin, for acceptance or refusal? To sinners or to God?

<<< IF YOU, think YOU received Gods Gift of Salvation "WITHOUT" your freewill confession, consenting to Accept His Offering.... according to Scripture...
You are mistaken.>>>

I have already addressed this. And it’s not what I think.

On “Dividing”, I differ with your perspective. And I’ll leave it at that, so as not to open another issue. Maybe sometime we could have a discussion on that. God willing.

Tong
R4051

Taken · Aug 18, 2021

Tong2020 said:
I have a question for you in connection to the matter of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross.

To whom did Jesus offered His body as a an atoning sacrifice for sin and for the forgiveness of sin, for acceptance or refusal? To sinners or to God?

To whom Did Jesus Offer His Body?
TO...mankind.
For whom...Did Jesus Offer His Body?
FOR...God.

Man who Accepts Jesus' Offering...
Becomes "MADE" saved.

Some men focus on being "SAVED FROM" hell.

Some men focus on being "SAVED UNTO" God.

The Highlight is being "SAVED UNTO GOD".
Because - Every "SAVED" man, IS: and IS FOR:
Gods inheritance.

There is No gold, rubies, gems, land, flowers, gifts, a man can GIVE to God. Everything is already God Almighty's.

There is ONE thing, God gave a man, that is his... a man (form,body) own LIFE (blood).
A man can keep his life, or kill his life, or willingly give his life "for a friend."

OR...a man can FREELY CHOOSE TO GIVE his Life...to express control of a nation, another man, a statue god, etc.

OR... a man can FREELY CHOOSE TO GIVE his Life....to express control of Satan.

OR...a man can FREELY CHOOSE TO GIVE his
Life...to express control of the Lord God Almighty.

EX 34:
[9] And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

Tong2020 · Aug 18, 2021

Taken said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
I have a question for you in connection to the matter of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross.

To whom did Jesus offered His body as a an atoning sacrifice for sin and for the forgiveness of sin, for acceptance or refusal? To sinners or to God?

Click to expand...

To whom Did Jesus Offer His Body?
TO...mankind.
For whom...Did Jesus Offer His Body?
FOR...God.

Hmm. Now I understand you better.

TO WHOM did Jesus offer His body as an atoning sacrifice for sin and for the forgiveness of sin, for acceptance or refusal? My answer is found in the following scriptures: TO GOD.

Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Eph. 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

FOR WHOM was Jesus’ sacrifice? My answer is found in the following scriptures: FOR “US”.

1 Corinthians 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

Tong
R4052

Kermos · Aug 18, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!>>>

I assumed you know scriptures.

Since you do not specify scripture in your post, then your post is "the word of @Tong2020".

Tong2020 said:
Do you not know that scriptures say with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

1. it is an offense to God
2. it is disobedience to God
3. it is a transgression
4. it is a sin

Do you not know that God was offended by Adam’s eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

You can read and get of all that in Romans 5:12-19.

Now, you provided a scripture reference, so I have a basis on which to address your points.

As this post which includes Romans 5 in this thread shows, Paul compared and contrasted Adam to Jesus, and the flesh man precedes the spiritual man for every person, and the flesh man cannot please God apart from God converting the flesh man into a spiritual man.

Tong2020 said:
So, what is your answer to my question “Why was God offended by Adam with that?”

Because As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Adam listened to the voice of his wife as the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17).

Tong2020 said:
<<<Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).>>>

Not my thoughts there. Perhaps your thought that those were my thoughts. But NO, not my thoughts. Sorry.

Yes, @Tong2020, your post without scripture citation was your thoughts.

Tong2020 said:
<<<Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.>>>

My free will assertion? Nope.

The person who says "I chose Jesus" and/or "I accepted Jesus", and if the person continues practicing such a claim after hearing that Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), then such a self-willed person (2 Peter 2:9-10) reviles Jesus as well as attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts.

Tong2020 said:
What I do assert, is what the scriptures says, like in Joshua 24. That the people God had chosen from among the peoples of the world, choose to serve God at the time of Joshua and in all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua.

As this post in this thread shows, the words and surrounding context of Joshua 24:15 indicates inability for people to choose to serve God precisely as Joshua said (Joshua 24:19).

Tong2020 said:
Another is what scriptures say in Romans 5, with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which I am just showing you here.

Tong
R4039

The Apostle Paul mentions "obedience" one time in Romans chapter 5, and Paul mentions "disobedience" one time in Romans chapter 5.

"For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous" (Romans 5:19) wrote Paul.

Notice that:

(A) Paul identifies Adam with "disobedience".

(B) Paul DOES NOT identify Adam with "obedience".

(C) Paul identifies Jesus with "obedience".

(D) Paul DOES NOT identify Jesus with "disobedience".

all in Romans chapter 5.

Adam was not guilty of disobedience prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17, Genesis 3:6); moreover, Adam was guilty of disobedience after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:17).

No scripture throughout the entirety of the Bible indicates that Adam was obedient. Scripture only indicates Adam's disobedience.

No scripture states that Adam had the ability to be obedient; therefore, Adam was not guilty of violating God's command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17) prior to eating (Genesis 3:6).

As this post in this thread shows, scripturally a difference exists between Adam being not guilty before eating of the tree versus Adam being in obedience before eating of the tree.

The thoughts of your heart add to the Word of God as well as subtract from the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 18, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!>>>

I assumed you know scriptures.

Do you not know that scriptures say with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

1. it is an offense to God
2. it is disobedience to God
3. it is a transgression
4. it is a sin

Do you not know that God was offended by Adam’s eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

You can read and get of all that in Romans 5:12-19.

So, what is your answer to my question “Why was God offended by Adam with that?”

<<<Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).>>>

Not my thoughts there. Perhaps your thought that those were my thoughts. But NO, not my thoughts. Sorry.

<<<Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.>>>

My free will assertion? Nope. What I do assert, is what the scriptures says, like in Joshua 24. That the people God had chosen from among the peoples of the world, choose to serve God at the time of Joshua and in all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua. Another is what scriptures say in Romans 5, with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which I am just showing you here.

Tong
R4039

I perceive an underlying current to your post, so I'm addressing it in it's own post.

But, this post must be taken while recalling the prior post that God had me make to you.

Since Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)

Then some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam

In particular God created Adam with a God-like will that they call free will

But then Adam could not have used free will to perform evil disobedience against God

Because God will not use willpower in order to perform evil disobedience against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)

Therefore it follows that Man could not use free will in order to perform evil disobedience against God

(1) The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities

(2) God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature

(3) Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

(4) Scripture does not include the mention of endowing Adam with free will

(5) Man's free will is a precept of man leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9)

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 18, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!>>>

I assumed you know scriptures.

Click to expand...

Since you do not specify scripture in your post, then your post is "the word of @Tong2020".

I assumed you know scriptures. Well,….

Here’s a couple of statements more without specifying scripture.

Through Adam’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation. By Adam’s disobedience many were made sinners.

I will be waiting for you to say your worn out excuse, “@Tong2020, your post without scripture citation was your thoughts.”.

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you not know that scriptures say with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

1. it is an offense to God
2. it is disobedience to God
3. it is a transgression
4. it is a sin

Do you not know that God was offended by Adam’s eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

You can read and get of all that in Romans 5:12-19.

Click to expand...

Now, you provided a scripture reference, so I have a basis on which to address your points.

As this post which includes Romans 5 in this thread shows, Paul compared and contrasted Adam to Jesus, and the flesh man precedes the spiritual man for every person, and the flesh man cannot please God apart from God converting the flesh man into a spiritual man.

Are you refuting the points I made on what scriptures say with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil by that? Or have you just ignored them altogether? I thought you will address my points. Well,…

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
So, what is your answer to my question “Why was God offended by Adam with that?”

Click to expand...

Because As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Adam listened to the voice of his wife as the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17).

Is that it? Well,…

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).>>>

Not my thoughts there. Perhaps your thought that those were my thoughts. But NO, not my thoughts. Sorry.

Click to expand...

Yes, @Tong2020, your post without scripture citation was your thoughts.

Nope. The following were your thoughts, not mine.

“Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill…..”

Tong
R4057

Tong2020 · Aug 18, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.>>>

My free will assertion? Nope.

Click to expand...

The person who says "I chose Jesus" and/or "I accepted Jesus", and if the person continues practicing such a claim after hearing that Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), then such a self-willed person (2 Peter 2:9-10) reviles Jesus as well as attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts.

Who is such person you are referring to who said “I chose Jesus”?

To whom was Jesus saying "you did not choose Me, but I chose you"?

To whom was Jesus saying "I chose you out of the world"?

Excuse me, I have to stop here. I Will the rest of your post later……

Tong
R4058

Kermos · Aug 18, 2021

Taken said:
More of your nonsense.
Jesus chose, Jesus chose, Jesus chose....
No kidding...
Jesus chose 12...even one being a devil.
Jesus chose and called all men...
Even the Pharisees and Sanhedrins....
Even Gentiles...
And what...
they all chose Him?
Seems you are blind and can not see...
Numerous men rejected Him and still do.

Do you need to see a paper contract with peoples signature?
It doesn't exist. People CHOOSE Him by CONFESSING with their hearts thoughts and their mouth.
People also deny and reject Him..by ignoring Him, or also with their hearts thoughts and their mouth.

It matters none to me, IF you have HAVE or HAVE NOT freely CHOSEN the Lord, with "your' hearts thoughts and "your" mouths word....
What you do or do not do, is on you to bear the consequence.
But your repeated, repeated, repeated silly nonsense is nauseating and does nothing to Glorify God.
My brethren are those who Freely Chose the Lord with "their" hearts thoughts and "their" word....precisely How the Lord taught, IS HIS WAY, to be Saved and accounted WITH and IN Him.

Continuing repeating yourself over and over and over...will be ignored.

@Taken and @Nancy (since you like Taken's post), at no point in your life do you produce righteous choice unto salvation nor do you direct belief to point at Jesus nor do you come to Jesus of your own accord nor do you perform good works on your own that are pleasing to God nor do you have a heart that can perceive God without being born of God nor can you repent on your own nor can you love righteously on your own. The following scripture reveals the above truth.

God is the gracious Benefactor who exclusively produces:

divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)

AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God

beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is by/of/through God

beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is by/of/through God

beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)

AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is by/of/through God

beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)

AND the apostles and elders glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)

beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)

AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is of/by/through God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 18, 2021

Taken said:
When you speak for me, then speak for yourself...all that is required for that conversation is a mirror....since you are the one doing all the talking, from your own thoughts.

No need for you to tell me what I think or believe...I am quite capable of thinking and speaking for myself.

And any prudent person SHOULD KNOW, they are Not qualified to speak and TELL the other what they think and believe....especially when it is known they DO NOT AGREE!

"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart" (Luke 6:45) says Lord Jesus Christ.

I perceive from your words that in your heart you advocate that you choose Jesus unto salvation, so in your heart you call Jesus a liar because Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 18, 2021

MatthewG said:
Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Yes the only commandment given by God was not to eat from the tree of knowledge and good and evil.

God prophesied in 'and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"' (Genesis 2:16-17) that Adam would eat the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; therefore, it was unavoidable for Adam to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It sounds like your heart thinks that God did not have a plan in place before Adam was created for Jesus Christ to redeem all the people whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. The original post contains a scriptural explanation of Adam being a part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world.

No scripture states man was imparted a free will, so "yes" wickedly adds to the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 18, 2021

Kermos said:
@Taken and @Nancy (since you like Taken's post), at no point in your life do you produce righteous choice unto salvation nor do you direct belief to point at Jesus nor do you come to Jesus of your own accord nor do you perform good works on your own that are pleasing to God nor do you have a heart that can perceive God without being born of God nor can you repent on your own nor can you love righteously on your own.

Your offered ramblings are rejected.

Kermos · Aug 18, 2021

@Taken, this is yet another time that you fouled up your post, and this response is to https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/was-adam-imparted-free-will-from-the-beginning-of-creation.32841/page-41#post-1091202']your post[/URL], so if you want to continue that series then you'll need to post your message properly.

YOU ARE ENTIRELY INCAPABLE OF CHOOSING JESUS UNTO SALVATION BECAUSE LORD JESUS SAYS "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) AS WELL AS "I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD" (JOHN 15:19, INCLUDES SALVATION).

YOU TRY TO STEAL GOD'S EXCLUSIVE GLORY IN MAN'S SALVATION FOR IT IS WRITTEN "I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY TO ANOTHER" (ISAIAH 42:8).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 18, 2021

Kermos said:
"I perceive"...

What you "perceive" is irrelevant and rejected.

Taken · Aug 18, 2021

Kermos said:
@Taken

YOU ARE ENTIRELY INCAPABLE OF CHOOSING JESUS...

Already Chose Jesus!

You have been warned to not speak For me.
Your ramblings have been rejected.
Next step to put you on ignore.

Titus 3:
[10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Nancy · Aug 18, 2021

Kermos said:
@Taken and @Nancy (since you like Taken's post), at no point in your life do you produce righteous choice unto salvation nor do you direct belief to point at Jesus nor do you come to Jesus of your own accord nor do you perform good works on your own that are pleasing to God nor do you have a heart that can perceive God without being born of God nor can you repent on your own nor can you love righteously on your own. The following scripture reveals the above truth.

God is the gracious Benefactor who exclusively produces:

divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)

AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God

beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is by/of/through God

beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is by/of/through God

beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)

AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is by/of/through God

beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)

AND the apostles and elders glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)

beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says:

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)

AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is of/by/through God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Hello Kermos,
Your post is way too long and, I REALLY don't want to waste any time on it so let's just say that, we have been/are being saved..HOWEVER you want to put it, it remains the same.
And, BTW-pretty sure the audience in John 15:16 was to the 11 apostles, directly.
God bless and...I'm out of here!

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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