Can Anyone Make Sense Of This?

glad2bsaved · May 15, 2011

I am 34 years old. I was homeless and found an ad online from a local Pastor (recovered drug addict that dedicated his life to helping others), James (42 years old), that was accepting homeless people into his house. The only requirement was a 3-month commitment to participate and help his ministry. After the 3 months, you were welcome to stay as long as you like. I contacted James and corresponded with him for a month. He explained that after some negative experiences with taking people in from the streets, he wanted to communicate with them for a while before inviting them into the house (absolutely understandable). I assumed many people were staying there and many wanted to get in, as it sounded like a very positive and uplifting program. When I moved in, there was only one other guy, Shawn (43 years old), in the program. He had been there for one month. There was also a female who had completed the program and decided to stay. She had been there for 10 months. Her name was Missy (20 years old) and she was appointed as Manager and official staff member by James. James' brother, Chris (46 years old) also lived there. He had been there for 2 months. Chris was a former drug addict that suffered severe psychological damage as a result. He was receiving disability income of which James was the beneficiary. We lived in an old 2-bedroom farmhouse. James had the master bedroom. Shawn had the other room. I slept on the couch. Chris slept on a bed by the bathroom. Missy slept in an RV. James offered me a room in the outside porch closet, which had a small bed. After a month of no privacy in the main thoroughfare, I moved into the closet. Our daily requirements: Wake at 6:30 am/ Attend James' worship service: 7 am to 9 am/ Work (mow the farm land, clean and detail James' car, clean the chicken coop, paint the house, plumbing, build various things for James, and other home improvement tasks) 9 am to 12 pm/ Cook lunch; wash dishes/ Work 1 pm to 5 pm/ Cook dinner; wash dishes/ Attend James' worship service 8 pm to 9:30 pm/ pay James $300 per month and if you're unable, simply give him your food stamp benefits. (Chris was not required to work). Sundays off. Missy received an additional day off because she was staff. She was allowed to take James' car for the day- she often went tanning and miscellaneous activities around town. Shawn was excellent at carpentry. That summer, we traveled 14 hours to a family member of James in Alabama. Shawn and I were there for 3 weeks and did $3,000 worth of work on the exterior of her house. James gave us instruction and prepared his sermons inside. Missy and Chris relaxed back at the house. Rules: No TV; no radio; no use of James' broadband internet; no telephone (contact with family and friends would have to be monitored by James, as well as mail); no leaving the house (shopping monitored by Missy); no attending church or being exposed to other ministers. Shawn's family was paying his monthly fee. They pulled Shawn from the program because James was blocking their communication and they felt it was a cult-like setup. I was there for 7 weeks. I was denied food stamps and unwilling to pay $300 rent to live in a closet & work and cook for someone. I was asked to leave. Unable to pay the monthly fee, Missy provided James with her food stamps and was paid $50 per week for being Lead Staff. She is still there and has been for almost 2 years. Previous residents say most people don't last 2 weeks there. Missy's own boyfriend entered the program with her and bailed after 1 week. James would frivolously spend money on such things as steak dinners and equipment/ instruments for his music studio. He would freely leave the house for hours at a time and often take his brother out to enjoy some sodas while we worked during the day.

See the people I'm talking about at:

www.ustream.tv/channel/winstonprayercentertv

www.world-hops.com

Search: "WorldHops" on YouTube

justaname · May 15, 2011

That place sounds scary and controlling.

WhiteKnuckle · May 15, 2011

Beginnings of a cult. IMHO, it would be better to be homeless.

tomwebster · May 15, 2011

Sounds like it would be easier to just get a job.

veteran · May 15, 2011

Based on that testimony, the setup does sound a bit fishy. Yet I'm not going to be quick to judge.

I recall what military boot camp did for a lot of folks that were basically used to living on the streets. My mother was practically a drill sergeant anyway (not literally), so military boot camp was not a huge shock for me.

You get up early in the morning like 5:00 A.M., the dorm bay fluorescent lights come on full bright, and you hear this loud deep voice from the drill sergeant, "GIT... UPPPP..., GIT OUT OF BED!!... (lot of the drill sergeants must have been from the South, they all sounded like it). If you didn't get out of bed immediately, you got your bunk turned over, with you in it. It made getting your bunk bed ready for inspection doubly hard too.

Then you had fifteen minutes for personal toilet business, to dress, and make your bunk and set your belongings in order for inspection, and fall out for role call in formation at attention. If your bunk wasn't tight enough to bounce a quarter off of, it got tore up so you'd have to start all over, hospital corners and everything. You made your bunk so tight that you'd only pull one corner out to slip inside it when going to bed. You got used to not moving a lot to mess the covers up, which made it easier to make in the morning. No problem there anyway, since you'd be too tired to roll around in your bunk during the night.

No piece of uniform you had, whether hanging or in the foot locker, could have a button unbuttoned, or an Irish pennant (a loose thread). Your bar of soap had to be clean and free of dried bubbles, but had to show use. Your razor could not have any hairs in it and had to be clean. Your toothbrush had to show use but have no paste residue on it. All three pairs of shoes had to be spit shined, and the ones you weren't wearing had to be in a specific order and interval distance under the corner of your bunk bed. Every folded piece of clothing had to be squared off to a specific folding procedure. Detail, detail, detail. It was all in the details. The front of your shirt vertical line down to your trouser zipper fold line had to be a straight line. You belt buckle edge had to be in that line too. It was called your 'gig line'.

Every recruit was given three each 349 papers to carry around in their pocket. We called them 'gig slips'. Other unit D.I.'s would come up to you and search your person for write-ups, things they could gig you on, like a loose thread hanging on your uniform, a button left unbuttoned, your shoe toes not forming a 45% degree angle while standing at attention, not being able to quote paragraphs out of your training manual, a multitude of things that nobody could ever be perfect in. When he gigged you, you had to give him one of those 349 slips which had your name, your squadron, flight, and your unit D.I.'s name. At times when I'd go to mail a letter or to the BX, when I got back to my unit I'd be out of 349's. If you got stopped again, you'd get gigged for not having any 349's. No way you could win, the system is not designed for the recruit to win, but for discipline.

Then, while it was still 0'dark 5:30, you marched to the chow hall, had fifteen minutes to eat and fall out outside the chow hall in formation with the sun coming up. You marched everywhere you went. You then had either classroom instruction and field instruction, or some type of work detail like KP (kitchen patrol) until lunch time. Some days you'd continue to march around the base or do PE. The flight (USAF unit same as a platoon in the Army) was then broken up for specific daily duties in work groups after lunch. Some had latrine duty, some the laundry detail, others taking care of the D.I.'s office and bunk area, others to guard duty, etc. Each group performed some specific function that benefited the whole unit. The idea was to work as a team (I had no problem because I had played team sports in school).

In the late afternoons you march some more, have more details, and more instruction that took you to supper time. March to the chow hall and back. Then more training until bed time at 2100 hrs. (9 P.M). Lights out, with one guy standing dorm guard duty with a flashlight behind the locked bay door, looking out into the hall. D.I.'s from other units would come by and try to talk you into opening the door and letting them in, breaking security. God help the person who fell to that. Those D.I.'s would say just about anything and everything to get you to open the door. You had a specific set of responses to memorize to say in return which had to be said right to the very detail.

On Sunday you marched to Church after breakfast. Then you had light duty and a bit of free time to write letters, do Bible study if you want and study your field manuals. You had certain periods when you could call home after the first two weeks and go to the BX store to buy personal needs, but NO pogey-bait (candy). Stuff like that was NOT to be found on you, or in the bay, ever, or the whole flight would suffer for it by late work details, PE, or constant marching. Sometimes the D.I. would wake us all up in the middle of the night to fall out for some detail or just to march.

I'd heard from ex-Army soldiers that later spent a hitch in the USAF and went through Air Force basic say it was tougher than the Army's version, mainly because it was much more nit-picky, more attention to little details. That may be because of the technological aspects of the Air Force, their spending more time especially disciplining the mind to small insignificant details. I know today's version of basic training is a lot different, not like it was during the Vietnam era when I went through it. (I hear they don't go through the machine gun overhead and exploding pit course anymore.)

In the final week, our D.I.'s loosened up quite a bit, and actually started treating us with real respect as fellow airmen. We were marching together as a real unit, acting like a team, helping each other and showing respect to each other regardless of ethnic background or where one was born. The D.I.'s were proud of us at that stage, and they showed it. And you then began to look back at what you went through and learned, and started realizing it had instilled in you a confidence that you never had before about yourself. You felt like you could tackle a lot of things that you never before had confidence to try. It helped a lot of boys to become men.

After basic training came technical school (mine was around 4 months), in many ways a continuation of boot camp life with more freedoms, a room with two bunks, no D.I. mom to personally be your alarm clock. You still marched as a unit everywhere (we marched to chow and to school in two feet of snow with just field jackets and liners and wool gloves). By the time you got to your first duty assignment you understood what real discipline and service was.

Some that have never been through an experience like the military would say it's all brainwashing, like removing a person's individuality. It's not. What it's about is learning how to function in this life, learning to overcome hardships without whining about it, learning to think for yourself while learning to work with others as a team to achieve goals, and learning to stand up like a child of God and face your fears head-on. That's what our Heavenly Father expects from us, to be disciplined and not fear, not to withdraw from life but to become primary movers in society doing His Work. That's why I believe God loves the military, because they teach the discipline needed not just to protect His people, but also to serve His people.

So then, does that mean the military is a type of 'cult' too? No, not in the least.

WhiteKnuckle · May 15, 2011

tomwebster said:
Sounds like it would be easier to just get a job.

Have you ever been homeless?

glad2bsaved · May 15, 2011

I understand and respect your point. I have also served for our country in the military. Although, there is a slight difference between the U.S. Government and an ex-drug addict/ self-proclaimed pastor with a 300 year-old farmhouse in the back woods southern country.

tomwebster · May 15, 2011

WhiteKnuckle said:
Have you ever been homeless?

No, I have always worked, sometimes low paying hourly jobs, but I worked.

aspen · May 15, 2011

Right.....

Hard work is always insurance against homelessness.......

Gimme a break

horsecamp · May 15, 2011

lets get to the important thing --------what did this pastor preach ?

1 Corinthians 1:22-24 (New International Version)
22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:1-3 (New International Version)

1 Corinthians 2
1 And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling.

1 Corinthians 1:18 (New International Version)

Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Matthew 1:21 (New International Version)
21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,because he will save his people from their sins.”

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePointofGrace#p/f/5/IfpK6cNPF7Y

WhiteKnuckle · May 15, 2011

tomwebster said:
No, I have always worked, sometimes low paying hourly jobs, but I worked.

I hope you never are. Not everyone makes the best decisions and sometimes things happen. However, It's next to impossible to get a job if you have no address and no transportation and nothing decent to wear.

aspen · May 15, 2011

WhiteKnuckle said:
I hope you never are. Not everyone makes the best decisions and sometimes things happen. However, It's next to impossible to get a job if you have no address and no transportation and nothing decent to wear.

Yep....

It is hard enough to get work when you have a place to live. Take away clean clothes, a shower and an address - good luck.

veteran · May 15, 2011

I can't remember the name of the movie Will Smith was in, where he played a guy trying to sell medical equipment to support his wife and son. It was based on a true story. The guy was ex-Navy, and I truly believe that experience helped him to persevere.

So what happened after you left glad2bsaved? Are you doing better now? Can you honestly say the guy was of no help?

In a situation like that, I'd want trusted doctors to be involved, for medical reasons, unless the pastor was trained and licensed in that. I would also be taking a good portion of the money towards building room additions, or maybe purchase a bigger place at a different location. Being out in the woods is not enough to go on, for a lot of rehab centers are in quiet rural and suburban areas. Good idea to get addicts you're trying to help away from the drug traffickers.

Communication with the outside shouldn't be a big problem, if it's based on trust. But if abused, I can see where some discipline would be needed. And if he had actually tried to prevent folks from leaving against their will, that would be a major problem.

glad2bsaved · May 16, 2011

After I left, I stayed at the local homeless shelter for a couple of months and used computers at the library to send out my resume. God blessed me with a job and apartment. I'm doing well now. Of course my experience there was somewhat helpful because I had a roof over my head, but the operation there always seemed to be a bit shady.

Angelina · May 16, 2011

Praise the Lord that you found your way out of there dear brother!

May you never have to experience anything like that again, in Jesus name!

Be Blessed!

Duckybill · May 16, 2011

I have helped many people financially, including some homeless. I can't imagine trying to find a job living homeless. To judge them without VERY good cause is merciless IMO.

Matthew 5:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

rjp34652@yahoo.com · May 18, 2011

veteran said:
Some that have never been through an experience like the military would say it's all brainwashing, like removing a person's individuality. It's not. What it's about is learning how to function in this life, learning to overcome hardships without whining about it, learning to think for yourself while learning to work with others as a team to achieve goals, and learning to stand up like a child of God and face your fears head-on. That's what our Heavenly Father expects from us, to be disciplined and not fear, not to withdraw from life but to become primary movers in society doing His Work. That's why I believe God loves the military, because they teach the discipline needed not just to protect His people, but also to serve His people.

So then, does that mean the military is a type of 'cult' too? No, not in the least.

Been there and did that and YES it is brain washing.

Is the military a cult? Yes indeedy because it teaches you to worship the flag and adore the group.

Yes sir.

The group is beloved even when it does gastly inhumane things.
That such things happen aren't even admitted to in polite society, but they happen nonetheless.

The cruelest cut of all is that the flag, which is adored as the Almighty, doesn't even belong to the citizens or the army that carries it.

The greatest cult of all is that of the warmonger, who goes about attacking people who never attacked him.
Not for the honorable task of defending his home and family, but for the ignoble lust of profit and political advantage.

WhiteKnuckle said:
I hope you never are. Not everyone makes the best decisions and sometimes things happen. However, It's next to impossible to get a job if you have no address and no transportation and nothing decent to wear.

Or if you're old.

veteran · May 19, 2011

[quote name='[email protected]' timestamp='1305741763' post='111378']
Been there and did that and YES it is brain washing.

Is the military a cult? Yes indeedy because it teaches you to worship the flag and adore the group.

Yes sir.

The group is beloved even when it does gastly inhumane things.
That such things happen aren't even admitted to in polite society, but they happen nonetheless.

The cruelest cut of all is that the flag, which is adored as the Almighty, doesn't even belong to the citizens or the army that carries it.

The greatest cult of all is that of the warmonger, who goes about attacking people who never attacked him.
Not for the honorable task of defending his home and family, but for the ignoble lust of profit and political advantage.

Or if you're old.
[/quote]

Then you have some things to contend with...

Exod 15:3
3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is His name.
(KJV)

Judg 3:1-2
1 Now these are the nations which the LORD left, to prove Israel by them, even as many of Israel as had not known all the wars of Canaan;
2 Only that the generations of the children of Israel might know, to teach them war, at the least such as before knew nothing thereof;
(KJV)

Matt 10:34
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
(KJV)

Joshua David · May 19, 2011

Is the military a cult? Yes indeedy because it teaches you to worship the flag and adore the group.

RJP,

Where you ever in the Armed Forces? I am wondering because I served in the Navy and we were never taught to worship the flag. Respect the flag, Yes. Honor the flag, yes. But worship.. nope.

Now if you believe that respecting and honoring is the same of worshiping, then do you worship your parents?

Just wondering.

Joshua David

goodshepard55 · May 19, 2011

glad2bsaved said:
After I left, I stayed at the local homeless shelter for a couple of months and used computers at the library to send out my resume. God blessed me with a job and apartment. I'm doing well now. Of course my experience there was somewhat helpful because I had a roof over my head, but the operation there always seemed to be a bit shady.

I am so glad God has provided for you....I do believe that your experience will come into play in your future to assist those in the same situations....sometimes we have to live something to minister into others lives that are in the same situations we have been in....

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