Salvation is by Grace through Faith.

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Keiw

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What specifically does the "through Faith" portion mean in todays church?


Actually Jesus teaches--Those living now to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom( Matthew 7:21) and in a single teaching Jesus summed that will up-- Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God.-- = OT-NT over and over, year after year, it never stops. There is so much in the bible one gets new points every time they go through it. And its a guarantee that the teachers that Jesus is with makes 100% sure that is done. So ALL can look to see if their teachers are doing just that. If not--RUN FROM THEM, they are these-2Corinthians 11:12-15

Works builds a strong living faith that can endure when the pressures come, ones faith without works behind that faith will fail when pressures come. So faith and works work hand in hand.
 

brightfame52

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blood bought

The only thing “ laughable” here is your Biblical ignorance.....Christ’s Life Saves Nobody.

It depends on what you mean by that. What is said here Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

brightfame52

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Obedience to God's will is never defined in the Bible as a work that merits salvation but obedience is a precondition God put upon His free gift and meeting the prerequisite on a free gift never earns salvation. Obedience in doing God's will is what the Bible calls doing righteousness while lack of obedience is call unrighteousness. Until some accept this common ever day fact/truth, they will never have an accurate understanding of salvation.

There was obedience in washing God put upon His free gift of healing for Naaman (2 Kings 5:10) and the blind man (John 9:7). These men's obedient work in washing/dipping did not earn the free gift of healing but they simply met the precondition God put upon His free gift.

Yet I do not see the faith onlyist refer to these incidents as "work based" healings for obviously nothing was merited by the obedience.

But these same faith onlyist make the spurious claim of "work based" salvation when the obedience done to receive the free gift of salvation does not merit God's free gift no more than the obedience done by Naaman or the blind man merited the free gift they both received. There is an inconsistent, lack of logic involved with Calvinism.
You still advocating salvation by works, by what a man does. Scripture declares that God people are saved by the obedience of one, and that one is Christ Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So you deny this ! Thats works !
 

BloodBought 1953

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Obedience to God's will is never defined in the Bible as a work that merits salvation but obedience is a precondition God put upon His free gift and meeting the prerequisite on a free gift never earns salvation. Obedience in doing God's will is what the Bible calls doing righteousness while lack of obedience is call unrighteousness. Until some accept this common ever day fact/truth, they will never have an accurate understanding of salvation.

There was obedience in washing God put upon His free gift of healing for Naaman (2 Kings 5:10) and the blind man (John 9:7). These men's obedient work in washing/dipping did not earn the free gift of healing but they simply met the precondition God put upon His free gift.

Yet I do not see the faith onlyist refer to these incidents as "work based" healings for obviously nothing was merited by the obedience.

But these same faith onlyist make the spurious claim of "work based" salvation when the obedience done to receive the free gift of salvation does not merit God's free gift no more than the obedience done by Naaman or the blind man merited the free gift they both received. There is an inconsistent, lack of logic involved with Calvinism.




the obedience done to receive the free gift of salvation
And you talk about an “ inconsistent , lack of logic?”

If something has to be “ done”—- it is not a “ Free Gift”.... a five year old could figure that out...
 

Ernest T. Bass

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the obedience done to receive the free gift of salvation
And you talk about an “ inconsistent , lack of logic?”

If something has to be “ done”—- it is not a “ Free Gift”.... a five year old could figure that out...

You reject the common everyday truth/fact free gifts can and do come with preconditions and meeting the precondition does not, cannot earn the free gift.

Some thing had to be "done" for Naaman to be cleansed of his disease and the blind man to receive his sight. Did their doing some thing mean their healing was not of grace but rather it was owed to them for their having done some thing????? They would NOT have received the free gift by disobeying, but reception of the free gift required (required by God) they do some thing. A five year old can understand that.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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You still advocating salvation by works, by what a man does. Scripture declares that God people are saved by the obedience of one, and that one is Christ Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So you deny this ! Thats works !
I have not advocated that salvation is earned by works. Again, Naaman had to do a obedient WORK to be healed of his disease, are you going to call that "works based" healing whereby his healing was not of grace but owed him???

God tells man to believe (John 3:16) repent (Luke 13:3) confess (Matthew 10:32-33) and be baptized to be saved. Doing these things is obeying God's will in meeting the prerequisites God has placed upon His free gift of salvation therefore obedience earns NOTHING. Obeying by believing, repenting, confession and baptism do not earn the free gift of salvation no more than Naaman's or the blind man's obedience in washing in water earned them their free gift.

You want to see it one way but not the other.......you want to claim obeying God's will is "works based" earning salvation but do not see Naaman's obedience as "works based" earning his healing. What's true for one is true for the other.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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You reject the common everyday truth/fact free gifts can and do come with preconditions and meeting the precondition does not, cannot earn the free gift.

Some thing had to be "done" for Naaman to be cleansed of his disease and the blind man to receive his sight. Did their doing some thing mean their healing was not of grace but rather it was owed to them for their having done some thing????? They would NOT have received the free gift by disobeying, but reception of the free gift required (required by God) they do some thing. A five year old can understand that.




....for the record.....it actually just takes a FOUR year old to get it right.....but who wants to squabble?


Anybody out there desire to get Saved? Here is what you do—- it’s the ONLY thing you “ Have to Do”....( drum roll , please) . Ask.
“Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL BE Saved”......The only precondition or Requirement to become a Christian is to see that you are a Sinner That needs a Savior.....” ASK and you shall Receive”...... I hate to “bust the bubble” of all of you confused, poorly taught people that want to Work for their Salvation.... Salvation is all about “ Receiving” and NOT about “ Achieving”......
 

brightfame52

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I have not advocated that salvation is earned by works. Again, Naaman had to do a obedient WORK to be healed of his disease, are you going to call that "works based" healing whereby his healing was not of grace but owed him???

God tells man to believe (John 3:16) repent (Luke 13:3) confess (Matthew 10:32-33) and be baptized to be saved. Doing these things is obeying God's will in meeting the prerequisites God has placed upon His free gift of salvation therefore obedience earns NOTHING. Obeying by believing, repenting, confession and baptism do not earn the free gift of salvation no more than Naaman's or the blind man's obedience in washing in water earned them their free gift.

You want to see it one way but not the other.......you want to claim obeying God's will is "works based" earning salvation but do not see Naaman's obedience as "works based" earning his healing. What's true for one is true for the other.
Yes you have advocated salvation by works, conditioned on man and what he does.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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....for the record.....it actually just takes a FOUR year old to get it right.....but who wants to squabble?


Anybody out there desire to get Saved? Here is what you do—- it’s the ONLY thing you “ Have to Do”....( drum roll , please) . Ask.
“Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL BE Saved”......The only precondition or Requirement to become a Christian is to see that you are a Sinner That needs a Savior.....” ASK and you shall Receive”...... I hate to “bust the bubble” of all of you confused, poorly taught people that want to Work for their Salvation.... Salvation is all about “ Receiving” and NOT about “ Achieving”......
I see you gave no citation of any verse to back your post.

Those in Acts 2 asked what they must DO. Peter did NOT tell them to do nothing, he did NOT tell them to 'think' about being saved but Peter commanded them to DO...repent and be baptized.
 

GRACE ambassador

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Those in Acts 2 asked what they must DO. Peter did NOT tell them to do nothing, he did NOT tell them to 'think' about being saved but Peter commanded them to DO...repent and be baptized.
Precious friend, of course, there is, According To Scripture, an accursed gospel, today, Under GRACE (Galatians 1:6-9). So, which is it?:

1) gospel of the kingdom (Mat-John-Acts 8)

2) Gospel Of The GRACE Of God (Acts 9 - Romans - Philemon)

Or: a wrongly combined combo of 1) + 2) = 3) Confusion?:

God's Approval/TWO Gospels In Prophecy vs Mystery

Grace And Peace...
 
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Scott Downey

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Obedience to God's will is never defined in the Bible as a work that merits salvation but obedience is a precondition God put upon His free gift and meeting the prerequisite on a free gift never earns salvation. Obedience in doing God's will is what the Bible calls doing righteousness while lack of obedience is call unrighteousness. Until some accept this common ever day fact/truth, they will never have an accurate understanding of salvation.

There was obedience in washing God put upon His free gift of healing for Naaman (2 Kings 5:10) and the blind man (John 9:7). These men's obedient work in washing/dipping did not earn the free gift of healing but they simply met the precondition God put upon His free gift.

Yet I do not see the faith onlyist refer to these incidents as "work based" healings for obviously nothing was merited by the obedience.

But these same faith onlyist make the spurious claim of "work based" salvation when the obedience done to receive the free gift of salvation does not merit God's free gift no more than the obedience done by Naaman or the blind man merited the free gift they both received. There is an inconsistent, lack of logic involved with Calvinism.

Lets see where obedience is mentioned by Peter in relation to our salvation...
1 Peter 1
New King James Version
Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

What Peter says here, the elect are not elect because they were obedient. but because they are elect, the Spirit will sanctify them, meaning they will be made holy, they will be obedient and sprinkled with Christ's blood. Their obedience is a characteristic of their sanctification, accomplished by the Spirit of God.

Only the ELECT will be sanctified, obedient to the gospel message, have the forgiveness of their sins.
The ELECTION comes first, God foreknows His people and therefore they are ELECT, and because of that, certain good things having to do with their salvation, God will work in their lives.
 
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Scott Downey

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Obedience to the faith is established in you by God. His commandment is of course obedience to the faith.
The only ones who will be obedient to the faith, are those whose FAITH God established within, as He, Jesus, is the Author and finisher of you faith. Hebrews 12:2
To GOD ALONE wise be GLORY through Jesus Christ forever. Meaning the faith He establishes in you is not of yourself, it is the gift of God, lest any man should boast.

Romans 16:25-27
New King James Version
Benediction
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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The bible teaches against salvation by works and says clearly its by Grace !
The Bible does not teach salvation by works of merit nor does it teach salvation by grace alone.

The Bible does teach that obedience is necessary to receive God's free gift of salvation and never does the Bible define obedience as a work or merit.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Lets see where obedience is mentioned by Peter in relation to our salvation...
1 Peter 1
New King James Version
Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

What Peter says here, the elect are not elect because they were obedient. but because they are elect, the Spirit will sanctify them, meaning they will be made holy, they will be obedient and sprinkled with Christ's blood. Their obedience is a characteristic of their sanctification, accomplished by the Spirit of God.

Only the ELECT will be sanctified, obedient to the gospel message, have the forgiveness of their sins.
The ELECTION comes first, God foreknows His people and therefore they are ELECT, and because of that, certain good things having to do with their salvation, God will work in their lives.


"according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied."

The election here was not UNconditional apart from sanctification and obedience.

Sanctification is not something that happens unconditionally, randomly only to certain people, it does not happen miraculously, against one's will or apart from the word of God. Sanctification occurs by the word of God. John 17:17, those who obey that word are the ones sanctified.


2 Thessalonians 2:13 "because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
Note there are CONDITIONS to be of the "chosen" and man must met the condition of believing the truth. So those who believe the word of God and obey it thereby sanctified by the SPirit make up the chosen. "..notice that those who are said to have been "chosen" had an obligation to believe the truth. They ended up "chosen" because they chose to accept God's invitation ( Mat_22:14 )." Dunagan's Comm.

Obedience, there is no salvation apart from man's obedience to God's will, so man has a role to play in his own election, in being of God's chosen.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Precious friend, of course, there is, According To Scripture, an accursed gospel, today, Under GRACE (Galatians 1:6-9). So, which is it?:

1) gospel of the kingdom (Mat-John-Acts 8)

2) Gospel Of The GRACE Of God (Acts 9 - Romans - Philemon)

Or: a wrongly combined combo of 1) + 2) = 3) Confusion?:

God's Approval/TWO Gospels In Prophecy vs Mystery

Grace And Peace...
There is not but ONE gospel, ONE faith Ephesians 4:4-5. Christ, Peter, Paul all preached that ONE faith.
 

brightfame52

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The Bible does not teach salvation by works of merit nor does it teach salvation by grace alone.

The Bible does teach that obedience is necessary to receive God's free gift of salvation and never does the Bible define obedience as a work or merit.
The bible teaches salvation by grace and opposes salvation by works.
 

Scott Downey

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"according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied."

The election here was not UNconditional apart from sanctification and obedience.

Sanctification is not something that happens unconditionally, randomly only to certain people, it does not happen miraculously, against one's will or apart from the word of God. Sanctification occurs by the word of God. John 17:17, those who obey that word are the ones sanctified.


2 Thessalonians 2:13 "because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
Note there are CONDITIONS to be of the "chosen" and man must met the condition of believing the truth. So those who believe the word of God and obey it thereby sanctified by the SPirit make up the chosen. "..notice that those who are said to have been "chosen" had an obligation to believe the truth. They ended up "chosen" because they chose to accept God's invitation ( Mat_22:14 )." Dunagan's Comm.

Obedience, there is no salvation apart from man's obedience to God's will, so man has a role to play in his own election, in being of God's chosen.
God does not work against one's will, He does not strive with the flesh.
God makes people born again, and their will is changed as their very nature is changed.
The old enmity is gone then and everything is become new in the relationship.
Unless your born again you will never 'see' the kingdom of God, as in perceive, comprehend, or want anything to do with it, and Christ, so you will never believe unless born again first.

Now in the Old Covenant times, like with Israel, God strove with their flesh and it was a failure, it had faults. They continually rebelled, so this NC works different in the God makes people born again. You, Bass, are like living and teaching and believing from the OC perspective, do this, do that, dont do that, must teach people to know God, trying to force compliance with the ways of God. God simply dispenses with all of that in the NC, for by grace (not faith by itself, that grace comes first and that grace God manifests in you by making you born again first as an act of God) you have been saved.

example of OC problems

Romans 10:20-21 New King James Version, v20 is how the NC works.
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”


21 But to Israel he says: is how the OC works

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

Hebrews 8,
lots of people talk about the sin and sacrifice change in the NC, but they miss the part how God writes His laws on their hearts, and PUTS His laws into their minds, which is how it works so much better. He can only do that by making people born again FIRST, so they can believe at all. So yeah the NC is invasive against the natural antagonistic will of a man in that it does that removing the enmity man has against Christ.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.