The 7th and 8th King

Daniel starts with the Babylonian. He arrives to the seventh and eighth.

So does history.

You do not offer a "starting" point, you merely extrapolate backwards from the sixth kingdom, which you errantly ascribe to Rome. If Daniel had said 12 kingdoms instead of 7th or 8th, you would have arrived back as far as necessary, up to and including Nimrod.

The fact is, the seven and eighth come from Daniel, the Lion/Leopard/Bear come from Daniel, and the ten come from Daniel. And because you do not understand Daniel, and imagine a History which is not, you arrive to a premise without foundation.


Have you considered a different line of work?

... and just so no one thinks my "different line of work" comment is too harsh, please allow the following context from the Topic "Septuagint" :

Steve, on 04 February 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

... very confused
... an unbeliever who scoffs
... Your knowledge won’t save you
... devilish mannerisms
... Leave prophecy to those who have advanced more
... You do a dis-service to the entire church
... You cannot jump straight from nursery to prophet
... Leave it alone.

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HeRoseFromTheDead, on 04 February 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

... the trolls

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Steve, on 04 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

... errors in your logic; in your beliefs; in your evidence; and most importantly, in your heart.
... undeveloped in their spiritual walk
... faulty logic
... this must be corrected by obedience to God in other areas.
... puffed up with pride
... painting the outside of your tomb
... straining the gnat while gulping the camel
... read the bible with a servant’s heart
... learn obedience and respect before you start pulling words apart
... assuming you have “true knowledge”
... leave it alone

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Steve, on 04 February 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

...smug attitude

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HeRoseFromTheDead, on 04 February 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

... troll and thread spammer

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PropphecyStudent said:

...

Have you considered a different line of work?

Click to expand...

That is the first thing you have said that I agree with.

Hi Steve,

I believe this is a public Christian Forum, and as such I participate. However, if you wish to distance yourself from such input, please consider effecting that action. Otherwise, please plan on said participation.



PS Please consider your input in context with Post #4.

Hi Steve,

You have two errors which I will address:

The first is presuming that John wrote in in the present-tense. He actually wrote in the future-present-tense. Thus there will be a point in history in which the entire world will wonder at the prophecy given by Ezekiel (and also by Daniel).

Secondly, as already pointed out, Daniel arrives to the seventh and the eighth quite satisfactorily, -- accounting for the Lion/Leopard/Bear in their true inferences. And he started with the Babylonian Empire.



And if I might, -- just because you are uninformed about various Scriptural aspects, does not suggest that informed people are ~spammers~, blah, blah, blah, blah. In fact, the "chief accuser" is a liar, as most accusers tend. So I would advise you to cease your accusations and focus on Scriptural and Historical evidence.

I interpret the 8 kings prophecy of Rev.17 the same as Steve, except... a difference with the 7th and 8th. Up to the 7th king is directly related to what Christ revealed in Rev.13:2 from Daniel 7 about the idea of previous beast kingdoms and beast king rulers over them, with ancient Rome being pointed to during the time of John's captivity at the Isle of Patmos (by emperor Domitian around 81 to 96 A.D.).

Rev 17:7-14
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The beast carries the symbolic woman harlot (a city per Rev.17:18), and has seven heads (powers) and ten horns (kings). The seven heads and ten horns involve a structure power on the earth involving seven areas of power with ten kings. The seven heads are not about the 8 kings in the next verses. The 8 beast kings in the next verses are given to determine the 7th coming beast king that will rule along with the ten kings (ten horns), which is also the Daniel pattern for the ten horns, with another little horn coming up among them, which represents the 7th king.


8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Two different 'beasts' were declared back in Rev.13, the first in relation to Dan.7 about beast kingdoms, and in Rev.13:11 forward about an entity in power to work great signs and miracles on earth to deceive with, involving false worship, which is a second beast. We're told he appears as a Lamb with two horns, but speaks as a dragon. The definition of the "dragon" per Rev.12:9 and 20:2 is simply another title for Satan himself. It is Satan that shall ascend out of the bottomless pit but will eventually go into perdition (perish) in the lake of fire. No others but Satan and his angels have already... been assigned to perish in the lake of fire as of today. No flesh born man is even judged to go into the lake of fire until the Great White Throne Judgment that's to occur after... Christ's still future thousand years reign that begins at His return, a Biblical truth men's doctrines tend to totally forget or reject.

Even now many are wondering at the identity of that second beast, not aware it will be Satan himself on earth, the dragon. Back at Rev.9:11 we were already told the locusts have a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, i.e., Satan. He was, in the sense that when he first rebelled of old he first rebelled against God using a beast kingdom mentioned back at Rev.12:3-4, a beast system of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns instead of ten. He is not, because he is still coming, which for this world is meant only for the era just prior to Christ's return.


9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The seven heads represent powers over the earth. That structure existed also with Satan's first rebellion of old, per the Rev.12:3-4 structure example. The Rev.12:3 beast kingdom seven heads is our comparison for the one of Rev.13, not seven hills in Rome nor Jerusalem.


10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

I too believe these five beast kings were represented by the historical beast kingdoms under paganism per OT history and the Book of Daniel. The pagan Roman empire was what existed in John's day of captivity at the Isle of Patmos by Emperor Domitian. The Roman emperors thus represented the "one is" that was in John's days, the sixth beast king.

The "other is not yet come" is the 7th beast king yet to come, and John spoke of that one in his warning about the coming of an "antichrist", along with mention of the "many antichrists" to go with it (1 John 2:18). Our Lord Jesus also warned that a false one was coming per the John 14 through 16 chapters, and gave specific mention of a pseudo-Christ coming for the time of great tribulation per the end time signs of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Paul also mentioned about a false one coming to sit in the temple of God, exalting himself over all that is worshipped prior to Christ's coming and our gathering, per 2 Thessalonians 2. The acts of that false one Paul describes is... the same sin of rebellion which Satan did against God of old with coveting God's Throne and trying to play God. Rev.13:11 forward gives that same picture also about the second beast entity that speaks as a dragon.

This 7th beast king must continue "a short space". Back at Rev.12:7-13, we're shown the 'dragon' being cast out of Heaven with his angels to the earth, and told that he knows he has a short time. And when he realizes he's cast to the earth, he then goes after the symbolic woman to persecute and destroy. That was not about Satan's first fall as lightning to the earth. That event is still future to us, and is what will start the near future tribulation time of trouble. The coming tribulation time is what his continuing a "short space" is about. So once again, this is pointing to the dragon, Satan himself.


11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

That beast of the Rev.17:8 verse that ascends from the bottomless pit and goes into perdition, who is of the seven beast kings, even he is the 8th one. The role of the 8th beast king is set for after... Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect. It's when Satan will be loosed one more time in final to deceive the nations of Gog and Magog that are still then in the four corners of the earth. They will come up against the "campt of the saints" and "beloved city" that is on earth where Christ and His elect will be ruling from in that time per (Rev.20:7-9).


12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

The ten horns represent ten kings which will only come to power when the 7th beast king arrives on the scene with his ascending from the bottomless pit per Rev.17:8. Thus trying to assign these ten kings to some past history is nothing but a decoy. These ten rule concurrent with the final beast king of this world, in the time just prior to Christ's return.

In the Book of Daniel, we're shown about ten horns (kings) with a "little horn" coming up among them to rule over all, and then in final with those thrones being cast down in reference to the time of Christ's coming and reign, and God's final Judgment of Rev.20. The beast kingdom pattern given at the start of Daniel is for all the old previous beast kingdoms of history being revived into a final beast kingdom with feet of mixed iron with clay, having ten toes (ten horns). And Christ is to smite the beast image upon its feet to cause all... the five pieces, together, to fall to the ground, which is about the time of His return.

The picture is of a final world beast kingdom involving all the old beast kingdoms of history, in other words, a one-world beast kingdom to cover all nations upon the earth. It is the attempt to join all the old previous beast systems of history into one final pot, which is why we are seeing today a final attempt to join all religions of the world together, and all nations together, under the banner of world peace and safety.


13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
(KJV)

This Rev.17 pattern of ten horns with a beast king entity over them, and directy making war with Christ Jesus and His angels He brings with Him at His second coming is that same pattern for the ten horns and beast kingdom of mixed iron and clay in Daniel.


World organizations like the League of Nations which later became the United Nations organization, is a structure I see designed to bring in... the 7th beast king, who is still yet to come. It's that 7th beast king which will represent the "little horn" of Daniel with ten kings being setup under his power when he arrives.

That's where I differ from those like Steve. The United Nations is not the Rev.13:11 second beast entity, but a structure being built to help bring in his future coming and reign as king of the world for the tribulation time. Moreover, that 7th beast king entity will be Satan himself, the dragon of Rev.12:7-13 cast out of Heaven with his angels to this earth on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe and 6th Vial.

It would seem that veteran's summary was not so much complex, but vague and incomplete:

1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?

2. How is it that Daniel 7 depicts the Lion/Bear/Leopard as concurrent?

3. Why does Rev. 13 show the Lion as the "mouth"; the Leopard as the "body"; and the Bear as the "feet"? (Why not the Bear as the "mouth", etc.?)

4. Who are the ten kings?

5. How is it that the "dreadful" beast attains the sovereignty of the three beasts?

6. How many "little horns" are there?

7. Which of the seven heads is mortally wounded?

8. Why do virtually all commentators present FOUR world empires, in defiance of Daniel 2:45 which stipulates FIVE: iron, bronze, clay, silver, gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?

9. And because the Daniel 2 FIVE does not equal the Daniel 7 FOUR, then how does FIVE = FOUR?

PropphecyStudent said:

It would seem that veteran's summary was not so much complex, but vague and incomplete:

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Some parts of Bible prophecy cannot be fully determined until closer to the time of fulfillment. Like God's two witnesses of Rev.11, we don't know exactly who they will be just yet today. Yet we're given what they will do and where they will appear on earth, and what will happen to them per the prophecy. No one today could provide that kind of completeness of saying exactly who they will be yet, which would be irresponsible to even propose to know.

But with some of your questions we can already know some things about them per the prophecy.

1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?

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I referred to Steve's list with that when speaking of past historical pagan nations which OT history points to on the order of Daniel's beast kingdoms, like Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia. I also referred to a past beast kingdom which few ever mention, that of Satan's original one of Rev.12:3-4 which he first rebelled against God with, which is the pattern for all of them, and especially the one being setup today. The eight kings of Rev.17 are consecutive, not concurrent with each other.

2. How is it that Daniel 7 depicts the Lion/Bear/Leopard as concurrent?

3. Why does Rev. 13 show the Lion as the "mouth"; the Leopard as the "body"; and the Bear as the "feet"? (Why not the Bear as the "mouth", etc.?)

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Both of those questions actually go together, and are about the time when the final world beast kingdom will manifest on earth, which is not yet today, but soon to manifest. The fact that Christ referred back to the past historical beast kingdoms with that while pointing to the beast kingdom of Rev.13:1 is enough to reveal a connection to the pattern given in Daniel for those past empires. I referred back to the early part of the Book of Daniel about that too, which points to prophecy in Dan.2.

4. Who are the ten kings?

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Christ answered that in the Rev.17:12-14 verses, but we cannot know their names yet, for they have not manifest yet, which is for the coming final beast kingdom of Rev.13:1 still being setup today. Some try to find 10 historical kings to answer that question, which is way off the timing for the Rev.13 final beast prophecy for the end of this world.

5. How is it that the "dreadful" beast attains the sovereignty of the three beasts?

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That was answered in Dan.7:24. And it's about the other horn that came up among the ten that "subdued" three of the ten horns, with the idea of subdue put for humbling the three, not literally fighting against them. That I suggested may be about the idea of Tri-lateralism, which has started to manifest already today among globalist workings. The Rev.17 detail about the seventh beast king is about that another little horn of Dan.7 that comes to take rule over all, including the ten horns.

6. How many "little horns" are there?

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One for the end of this world, which Revelation is pointing to for the end of this world, which is given in the Book of Daniel also.

7. Which of the seven heads is mortally wounded?

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Only one of the seven heads, which no one can know for sure just which one yet until the final beast king comes to power for the end.

8. Why do virtually all commentators present FOUR world empires, in defiance of Daniel 2:45 which stipulates FIVE: iron, bronze, clay, silver, gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?

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It's because they have concetrated on the old Roman empire in association with the fourth beast kingdom of iron, with treating the feet of mixed iron and clay as representing that old Roman empire also. It's where many Bible scholars have come up with the notion of a revived Roman empire for the end, since the iron is mentioned with clay for the time of Christ's return.

9. And because the Daniel 2 FIVE does not equal the Daniel 7 FOUR, then how does FIVE = FOUR?

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Dan.2 explains that, but the subject of my summary was staying more in our Lord's Book of Revelation, and not intended as a detailed coverage of the Book of Daniel.

Daniel 2 reveals that at the time of Christ's coming, all... the five material pieces of the beast image statue will be manifest together at the same time, with the final fifth beast kingdom of the feet of ten toes of mixing iron with clay being over all the previous ones, forming up a total world beast empire over all nations upon the earth. I covered that idea in my summary also, which you evidently missed.

To All,

Please accept the following analysis of nine (9) simple questions, presented in order, starting with #1:


1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?

2. How is it that Daniel 7 depicts the Lion/Bear/Leopard as concurrent?

3. Why does Rev. 13 show the Lion as the "mouth"; the Leopard as the "body"; and the Bear as the "feet"? (Why not the Bear as the "mouth", etc.?)

4. Who are the ten kings?

5. How is it that the "dreadful" beast attains the sovereignty of the three beasts?

6. How many "little horns" are there?

7. Which of the seven heads is mortally wounded?

8. Why do virtually all commentators present FOUR world empires, in defiance of Daniel 2:45 which stipulates FIVE: iron, bronze, clay, silver, gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?

9. And because the Daniel 2 FIVE does not equal the Daniel 7 FOUR, then how does FIVE = FOUR?

PropphecyStudent said:

It would seem that veteran's summary was not so much complex, but vague and incomplete:

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veteran said:

Some parts of Bible prophecy cannot be fully determined until closer to the time of fulfillment. .... No one today could provide that kind of completeness of saying exactly who they will be yet, which would be irresponsible to even propose to know. ...

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I would propose that each of the nine (9) aspects I identified are fully capable of being solved. As defined the the angelic instructions in Daniel 12:4 & Daniel 12:9, -- now that the nation if Israel is established we ARE in the end-times, and the words are no longer shut up and sealed.

PropphecyStudent said:

1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?

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veteran said:

I referred to Steve's list with that when speaking of past historical pagan nations which OT history points to on the order of Daniel's beast kingdoms, like Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia. I also referred to a past beast kingdom which few ever mention, that of Satan's original one of Rev.12:3-4 which he first rebelled against God with, which is the pattern for all of them, and especially the one being setup today. The eight kings of Rev.17 are consecutive, not concurrent with each other.

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All you have is "seven kings", and an "eighth". -- You have erred on the era of the "one is", you have erred in your extrapolation to the past which arrives at a starting point that disagrees with both Revelation and Daniel, and your extrapolation to the future which arrives at a ~non-concurrent~ end point with disagrees with Revelation, Daniel, and History. The problem with both your and "steve's" extrapolation methodologies s is if the number had been ~12 kings~, you both would have arrived at kingdoms all the way back to Nimrod if necessary, and imaginary kingdoms which never are nor shall be.



1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?

Daniel says the Babylonian Kingdom was the first empire:

Daniel 2
[sup]37 [/sup]You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; [sup]38 [/sup]and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold.



He also prescribes that there are FIVE world empires:

Daniel 2:45
45 ... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold ... -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


And of the fifth, it is "divided":

Daniel 2:41
[sup]41 [/sup]Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided


Thus where we now know that Chapter 2 defines FIVE world empires, and also Chapter 7 defines FOUR kingdoms, (and knowing that FIVE ≠ FOUR), that we MUST arrive to:

CHAPTER 2
1. Babylonian
2. Medo/Persian
3. Grecian
4. Roman
5. "divided"

CHAPTERS 2 & 7
1. Babylonian
2. Medo/Persian
3. Grecian
4. Roman
-- "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle
-- 6. Bear
-- 7. Leopard
-- 8. "dreadful"


Thus Chapter 7 amplifies Chapter 2, exactly as it should, and the only other consideration is why the feet of Clay have a residue of Iron. And this is as simple a reciting the Pledge of Allegiance: ... and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands ... . Clearly virtually every nation on earth follows the Roman Representative REPUBLIC model. As such God MUST reflect that Iron reside in this end-time feet of Clay.

And lastly, this final empire shall arrive to 10 nations, -- the ten toes --, which are also known.

To All,

Please accept the following analysis of nine (9) simple questions, presented in order, now at #2:


1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?

2. How is it that Daniel 7 depicts the Lion/Bear/Leopard as concurrent?

3. Why does Rev. 13 show the Lion as the "mouth"; the Leopard as the "body"; and the Bear as the "feet"? (Why not the Bear as the "mouth", etc.?)

4. Who are the ten kings?

5. How is it that the "dreadful" beast attains the sovereignty of the three beasts?

6. How many "little horns" are there?

7. Which of the seven heads is mortally wounded?

8. Why do virtually all commentators present FOUR world empires, in defiance of Daniel 2:45 which stipulates FIVE: iron, bronze, clay, silver, gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?

9. And because the Daniel 2 FIVE does not equal the Daniel 7 FOUR, then how does FIVE = FOUR?




2. How is it that Daniel 7 depicts the Lion/Bear/Leopard as concurrent?

I'm not sure why God tells us "come, let us reason together", if He doesn't use simple logic. So we find the following depiction in Daniel 7:


[sup]11 [/sup]“I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. [sup]12 [/sup]As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


So if we consider that world empires consume each other how can they co-exist?


THE IMPOSSIBLE STORY

There once was a happy little bird (Babylonian). Along came a cat (Medo/Persian) which ate the bird (with full digestion and absorption). Then came a dog (Grecian) which ate the cate (with full digestion and absorption). Then came an alligator (Roman) which ate the dog (with full digestion and absorption). Then the Fish & Game (Jesus) showed up and killed the alligator, whereupon the bird, the cat, and the dog all came back to life and lived again.


The commentators present this ridiculous premise by the assignment of ancient empires which are consecutive. However if these are modern empires as "divided" between the three superpowers, then certainly one could judge the United Nations (alligator), and yet retain the existence of the U.S., Russia, and China. For these indeed are concurrent.




And if any should want to explore the significance of how the Lion (U.K.) and Eagle's wings (U.S.) have a Mind of a Man; or how the Bear (Russia) has Three Ribs which it gnaws and then drops to free it's teeth for devouring much flesh; or how China has Four Heads and Four Wings; or even why the Lion is the "mouth", the Leopard is the "body", and the Bear is the "feet"; -- I would be glad to make those presentations.

ProphecyStudent



.

ProphecyStudent is bearing false witness. He ommitted a portion of my words ON PURPOSE when quoting me in his above #14 post.

Here's my original paragraph below, and then how... he mis-quoted it below that; notice the part in bold he left out on purpose:


My original paragraph:

"Some parts of Bible prophecy cannot be fully determined until closer to the time of fulfillment. Like God's two witnesses of Rev.11, we don't know exactly who they will be just yet today. Yet we're given what they will do and where they will appear on earth, and what will happen to them per the prophecy. No one today could provide that kind of completeness of saying exactly who they will be yet, which would be irresponsible to even propose to know."


ProphecyStudent's quote of my paragraph:

"Some parts of Bible prophecy cannot be fully determined until closer to the time of fulfillment. .... No one today could provide that kind of completeness of saying exactly who they will be yet, which would be irresponsible to even propose to know. ..."


I made it very clear what subject I was talking about when I said my original paragraph, about the identity of God's two witnesses, not the subject of who the ten kings will be which ProphecyStudent falsely tried to associate it with.

What he has attempted to do by that, was to try and prove lack of credibility on my part, trying to fool believers here that the statements in my original paragraph showed lack of ability in determining the ten kings of Rev.17, just so he could propose his own false doctrines of historicism. It was a very sly move, and nothing but trickery, revealing his actual lack of credibility and lack of truthfulness with intentionally misquoting.

veteran said:

ProphecyStudent is bearing false witness. ...

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I deliberately offered 9 specific aspects that you failed to address, but Scripture and History are replete on. If you have an opinion outside of those 9 points, then please feel free to post whatever doctrine, history, postulation, or pontification you wish. However, you probably shouldn't quote my post in context with whatever tangents you may conceive. Because if you do, I'll presume you're within the realm of my observations and subject to those points:


1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?
2. How is it that Daniel 7 depicts the Lion/Bear/Leopard as concurrent?
3. Why does Rev. 13 show the Lion as the "mouth"; the Leopard as the "body"; and the Bear as the "feet"? (Why not the Bear as the "mouth", etc.?)
4. Who are the ten kings?
5. How is it that the "dreadful" beast attains the sovereignty of the three beasts?
6. How many "little horns" are there?
7. Which of the seven heads is mortally wounded?
8. Why do virtually all commentators present FOUR world empires, in defiance of Daniel 2:45 which stipulates FIVE: iron, bronze, clay, silver, gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?
9. And because the Daniel 2 FIVE does not equal the Daniel 7 FOUR, then how does FIVE = FOUR?



ProphecyStudent

Why not open your own thread PS and so you wont keep this one hi-jacked?

MonkeyMan said:

“And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.” (Revelation 17:10-11)


Five have fallen:
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Mede / Persia
5. Greece

One is:
6. Rome

The other has not yet arrived:
7. League of Nations

Another king springs from the 7[sup]th[/sup]:
8. United Nations

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Hi Jiggyfly,

I don't believe I've deviated from the topic or discussion. As identified, questions remain as to how these assignments are achieved. Specifically, there is nothing which suggests that "1. Egypt" and "2. Assyria" are anything more than a backwards extrapolation from what is one point in history, -- which I would propose is an errant assumption of the "one is" as the Roman Empire. (As already provided, if the number had been larger, the extrapolations and justifications would have encompassed all the way back to Nimrod if necessary.)

And where some might hold this Chapter 17 independent from other Scriptures, it does not stand alone. For it's this same entity which is depicted in Revelation 13 as the Lion - mouth, Leopard - body, Bear -feet; with seven heads and IS the eighth.

And where did the Lion, Bear, and Leopard come from except Daniel Chapter 7?

And what is Daniel Chapter 7, except the FIFTH "divided" empire from Chapter 2?


So to answer this Topic, one MUST address the foundational basis of both books, Daniel & Revelation, and the respective Chapters, -- which I would propose to participate in. Or is this participation objectionable?



ProphecyStudent

ProphecyStudent said:

I deliberately offered 9 specific aspects that you failed to address, but Scripture and History are replete on. If you have an opinion outside of those 9 points, then please feel free to post whatever doctrine, history, postulation, or pontification you wish. However, you probably shouldn't quote my post in context with whatever tangents you may conceive. Because if you do, I'll presume you're within the realm of my observations and subject to those points:


1. Which nations are ascribed as the seven kings?
2. How is it that Daniel 7 depicts the Lion/Bear/Leopard as concurrent?
3. Why does Rev. 13 show the Lion as the "mouth"; the Leopard as the "body"; and the Bear as the "feet"? (Why not the Bear as the "mouth", etc.?)
4. Who are the ten kings?
5. How is it that the "dreadful" beast attains the sovereignty of the three beasts?
6. How many "little horns" are there?
7. Which of the seven heads is mortally wounded?
8. Why do virtually all commentators present FOUR world empires, in defiance of Daniel 2:45 which stipulates FIVE: iron, bronze, clay, silver, gold, -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?
9. And because the Daniel 2 FIVE does not equal the Daniel 7 FOUR, then how does FIVE = FOUR?



ProphecyStudent

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No, you mis-quoted what I wrote, on purpose, when I wasn't even speaking of the topic of the ten kings of Rev.17 in my paragraph. I forget the exact term in English composition when someone takes the words of others and inserts the (...) symbol to show something was omitted. But that's what you did, and you did it to try and make my words say something they did not.

And that's a revelation of your dishonesty and deceptive character!