Birth Control: Is It Christian?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

FounderChurch

New Member
Apr 25, 2012
9
0
0
Are there any Protestant churches, (other than the Catholic Church,) that teach that Birth Control is a sin? If not why not? What do people have against little children that never did any harm to anyone? If you have one or two, don't you just love them? And if so, why wouldn't you want more of such wonderful lovable little people? When did innocent children get to be a political issue, dividing political parties? Are not children non-partisan?

Yes, people have the right to be wrong, or right, in a democratic Republic like our own, but why is Birth Control fighting words, and a fighting issue? Should BC be something that turns people to sword points? Should it divide families, and ruin family dinners? Who is against children?

Has anyone ever been tried and executed for having, or not having children, (except in Communist China of course)? Why is this an issue that angers more people than anything else?

I'm doing research on this, and I would appreciate knowing of any of those Protestant Churches that oppose all Birth Control.
 

Strat

Active Member
Mar 25, 2012
784
29
28
Are there any Protestant churches, (other than the Catholic Church,) that teach that Birth Control is a sin? If not why not? What do people have against little children that never did any harm to anyone? If you have one or two, don't you just love them? And if so, why wouldn't you want more of such wonderful lovable little people? When did innocent children get to be a political issue, dividing political parties? Are not children non-partisan?

Yes, people have the right to be wrong, or right, in a democratic Republic like our own, but why is Birth Control fighting words, and a fighting issue? Should BC be something that turns people to sword points? Should it divide families, and ruin family dinners? Who is against children?

Has anyone ever been tried and executed for having, or not having children, (except in Communist China of course)? Why is this an issue that angers more people than anything else?

I'm doing research on this, and I would appreciate knowing of any of those Protestant Churches that oppose all Birth Control.

Birth control comes in many forms,not having sex at all is birth control,getting married in the first place is a choice and not doing so is birth control if one is following the word of God,some folks are against birth control because they think its having sex(pleasure) without paying a price for it,in their minds all pleasure must have price...pain however is a free,it is not fair to assume that somebody hates children because they don't have any,it is also not fair to judge a couple who feels they have all they can afford since so many are supporting their children with other people's money these days...it is a personal decision between a married couple.I have never seen the issue anger anyone that was not first interested in running someone else's life and meddling in the affairs of others.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All Christian Churches taught that birth control is a sin before the pill was introduced. The Catholic Church is the only Christian Church to hold it's ground n this issue,
 

Strat

Active Member
Mar 25, 2012
784
29
28
All Christian Churches taught that birth control is a sin before the pill was introduced. The Catholic Church is the only Christian Church to hold it's ground n this issue,

Following that logic it is also a sin to remain single,Mormon's interestingly enough teach this,i know i was one....it would also be a sin to not have sex when you are married,this mindset comes from the puritan idea that pleasure is sin and must be atoned for in some way....taken a bit further it would be a sin to have sex when one's wife is unable to have children since it would just be for the"selfish" pleasure of the man and woman and not for the purpose of procreation,same if the man for some reason were sterile....indeed when a couple reaches the point in their marriage because of age that they cannot produce children they should stop having sex since at that point it is nothing but a sinful,selfish indulgence.
 

FounderChurch

New Member
Apr 25, 2012
9
0
0
BIASED ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES: All arguments pro and con tend to be a bit biased and incomplete and over the top. Some facts, (my facts) not mentioned are that Nature and Nature's God designed us to have free will. Even animals have a scaled down version of it, so no one can definitively say what is good for another. They can suggest, and even on occasion compel, but they cannot expect, or condemn everyone for not following "orders."

PAIN-PLEASURE PRINCIPLE: If we are to believe those who have had the maximum children, they totally enjoy having and raising these children, even on very reduced budgets. So there is no "paying for pleasure" principle with them. So that theory about the Puritans has some big holes in it. The same theory could be applied to pets, because there is cost in caring for them properly also, and there are always those who want the pets but won't take care of them properly.

MARRIAGE AND THE BIBLE: The Bible says about marriage that if you feel lust, you need to expend it by marrying rather than allowing it to be satisfied in other ways that are not so good for the community, or the individuals. AIDS comes to mind. But the Bible clearly prefers everyone be married, and have as many kids as possible. As for sex among those who clearly cannot have children, if they burn with lust, it is better they have sex with each other than molest or rape or let it out in some other dangerous way. Ideally, people who can't have children should help care for the children of those who can, and direct their energy, if possible, into other constructive channels.

SEX AS ADDICTION: Everything can be made into an addiction. Food can be overdone, and even drinking water can kill you, so sex is just another human practice that can be abused to harmful levels, and in harmful ways. The bible warns about some of them.

SUICIDE DEATH WISH AND BIRTH CONTROL: There is also the tendency among humans to suicide and self-destruction of all sorts. These are considered mental disorders and not to be helpful. Some people not having children can come under the heading of feeding a long term depression over surroundings, the environment, and other disappointments with the conditions of life. Killing their own young can be thought of as a kind of way of dealing with these stresses, among other things.

BIRTH CONTROL v CONTRACEPTION: The difference between Contraception and Birth Control is substantial. Contraception is limited to just interfering with Conception, while Birth Control can be a vast range of acts from murder which cuts off people's ability to reproduce, to late marriage, no marriage, abstinence in marriage, infanticide, child murder, sterilization, abortion, and many, many other things which curtail life's reproduction.

COMMON SENSE: We see so many people having just one or two children, and then suddenly they lose one or two, and end up having none. Wouldn't it make just common sense for them to have more children as insurance against loss. When you see how totally pained and desperate they are when they suffer the loss of the one child, you think they should have wisely insured against such devastation. With them it seems like one child is a blessing but two or three or more is some sort of curse. How can this one million dollar child be worth any pain and sacrifice, but more of them be worth nothing, or less than nothing. It is puzzling to figure how these people figure. Or if they figure sanely at all.

CHILDREN AS A BURDEN: So many profess to love children passionately but then don't have any, or just one or two. How does it make sense? And as far as ability to support is concerned, the richest have the fewest children. Does that not destroy the idea that children are a financial burden?

MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN AS PATRIOTISM: So many who are Conservative Patriots profess to love their country and God, with all their heart, yet refuse to marry or have children sufficient to defend their country, or power its economy, or fill its churches, or to obviate the need for immigration legal or illegal. Strange Patriots indeed! They curse immigrants who do our work, but refuse to have the children to do that work. Strange thinking and values indeed.

MENTAL ILLNESS: Is it not possible that those who are not marrying and having lots of children are just plain mentally ill? they violate all of the norms of nature, and violate the norms of every religion, and violate what seems to be common sense. Is that not a fairly good definition of insanity to some degree? It seems to be fair we have to at least look at that possibility.

CATHOLICS AND BIRTH CONTROL: And does not the Catholic idea that getting rid of kids with "natural" means is somehow OK, but getting rid of kids with unnatural means is not OK. Isn't such an artificial division a nutty splitting of hairs? What is the difference between having sex during a woman's period to prevent children, and using a condom to accomplish the same purpose? Circumventing the fertile cycle is specifically forbidden in Leviticus, whereas condoms are not directly mentioned in the Bible. Who does the thinking for the Pope? Maybe he should be fired. Well, yes, it is a compromise, but compromises are sometimes like being a little bit pregnant. Yes, I know Humanae Vitae dances around this for 89 pages, but at the end it was still a very fancy dance attempting to square a circle. I sympathize with their intent, but am intellectually appalled at its lack of logic.

BUT WHERE ARE THOSE PROTESTANT CHURCHES THAT OPPOSE BIRTH CONTROL? ARE THERE NONE AT ALL? EVEN THE MORMONS SEEM TO HAVE NO DOCTRINE ON THE MATTER, OTHER THAN IT IS A SIN NOT TO MARRY. WHAT ABOUT KILLING THE FRUIT OF THAT MARRIAGE.?

CHRISTIAN REACTION: Yes, there is this hostility to raising this issue in the church. It is like hitting a really sore spot, and the patient jumps through the ceiling and sort of goes ballistic, even ministers. For they of all people know what the Bible says, but don't always like what they know, and their congregation can control what they say as they control their income.
 

Strat

Active Member
Mar 25, 2012
784
29
28
BIASED ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES: All arguments pro and con tend to be a bit biased and incomplete and over the top. Some facts, (my facts) not mentioned are that Nature and Nature's God designed us to have free will. Even animals have a scaled down version of it, so no one can definitively say what is good for another. They can suggest, and even on occasion compel, but they cannot expect, or condemn everyone for not following "orders."

PAIN-PLEASURE PRINCIPLE: If we are to believe those who have had the maximum children, they totally enjoy having and raising these children, even on very reduced budgets. So there is no "paying for pleasure" principle with them. So that theory about the Puritans has some big holes in it. The same theory could be applied to pets, because there is cost in caring for them properly also, and there are always those who want the pets but won't take care of them properly.

MARRIAGE AND THE BIBLE: The Bible says about marriage that if you feel lust, you need to expend it by marrying rather than allowing it to be satisfied in other ways that are not so good for the community, or the individuals. AIDS comes to mind. But the Bible clearly prefers everyone be married, and have as many kids as possible. As for sex among those who clearly cannot have children, if they burn with lust, it is better they have sex with each other than molest or rape or let it out in some other dangerous way. Ideally, people who can't have children should help care for the children of those who can, and direct their energy, if possible, into other constructive channels.

SEX AS ADDICTION: Everything can be made into an addiction. Food can be overdone, and even drinking water can kill you, so sex is just another human practice that can be abused to harmful levels, and in harmful ways. The bible warns about some of them.

SUICIDE DEATH WISH AND BIRTH CONTROL: There is also the tendency among humans to suicide and self-destruction of all sorts. These are considered mental disorders and not to be helpful. Some people not having children can come under the heading of feeding a long term depression over surroundings, the environment, and other disappointments with the conditions of life. Killing their own young can be thought of as a kind of way of dealing with these stresses, among other things.

BIRTH CONTROL v CONTRACEPTION: The difference between Contraception and Birth Control is substantial. Contraception is limited to just interfering with Conception, while Birth Control can be a vast range of acts from murder which cuts off people's ability to reproduce, to late marriage, no marriage, abstinence in marriage, infanticide, child murder, sterilization, abortion, and many, many other things which curtail life's reproduction.

COMMON SENSE: We see so many people having just one or two children, and then suddenly they lose one or two, and end up having none. Wouldn't it make just common sense for them to have more children as insurance against loss. When you see how totally pained and desperate they are when they suffer the loss of the one child, you think they should have wisely insured against such devastation. With them it seems like one child is a blessing but two or three or more is some sort of curse. How can this one million dollar child be worth any pain and sacrifice, but more of them be worth nothing, or less than nothing. It is puzzling to figure how these people figure. Or if they figure sanely at all.

CHILDREN AS A BURDEN: So many profess to love children passionately but then don't have any, or just one or two. How does it make sense? And as far as ability to support is concerned, the richest have the fewest children. Does that not destroy the idea that children are a financial burden?

MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN AS PATRIOTISM: So many who are Conservative Patriots profess to love their country and God, with all their heart, yet refuse to marry or have children sufficient to defend their country, or power its economy, or fill its churches, or to obviate the need for immigration legal or illegal. Strange Patriots indeed! They curse immigrants who do our work, but refuse to have the children to do that work. Strange thinking and values indeed.

MENTAL ILLNESS: Is it not possible that those who are not marrying and having lots of children are just plain mentally ill? they violate all of the norms of nature, and violate the norms of every religion, and violate what seems to be common sense. Is that not a fairly good definition of insanity to some degree? It seems to be fair we have to at least look at that possibility.

CATHOLICS AND BIRTH CONTROL: And does not the Catholic idea that getting rid of kids with "natural" means is somehow OK, but getting rid of kids with unnatural means is not OK. Isn't such an artificial division a nutty splitting of hairs? What is the difference between having sex during a woman's period to prevent children, and using a condom to accomplish the same purpose? Circumventing the fertile cycle is specifically forbidden in Leviticus, whereas condoms are not directly mentioned in the Bible. Who does the thinking for the Pope? Maybe he should be fired. Well, yes, it is a compromise, but compromises are sometimes like being a little bit pregnant. Yes, I know Humanae Vitae dances around this for 89 pages, but at the end it was still a very fancy dance attempting to square a circle. I sympathize with their intent, but am intellectually appalled at its lack of logic.

BUT WHERE ARE THOSE PROTESTANT CHURCHES THAT OPPOSE BIRTH CONTROL? ARE THERE NONE AT ALL? EVEN THE MORMONS SEEM TO HAVE NO DOCTRINE ON THE MATTER, OTHER THAN IT IS A SIN NOT TO MARRY. WHAT ABOUT KILLING THE FRUIT OF THAT MARRIAGE.?

CHRISTIAN REACTION: Yes, there is this hostility to raising this issue in the church. It is like hitting a really sore spot, and the patient jumps through the ceiling and sort of goes ballistic, even ministers. For they of all people know what the Bible says, but don't always like what they know, and their congregation can control what they say as they control their income.

I guess people just need to mind their own buisness on this issue,i do however find your notion that its best to have lots of children so that if one dies it won't matter as much to be quite a novel approach...kind of turns the love for children on its head....you do have a point tho,i used to have two cars and felt a certain sense of security that if one wouldn't start the other one would.
 

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2012
4,661
761
113
80
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.
†. Gen 1:28 . . God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and
increase,

Some interpret that verse to be a mandate requiring married people to have
children; and that they have no business getting married for any other
reason. But the wording is so obviously a blessing rather than a mandate;
especially since God said the very same thing to the winged creatures, and
the fish, and the reptiles, and the bugs, and the beasts.

It's always best to regard blessings as gratuities unless clearly indicated
otherwise. Some blessings have to be merited (e.g. the Beatitudes; Mtt 5:1
-12) but not this one. It was neither requested nor was it earned-- it was
freely given without any strings attached and nothing asked in return.

The belief that couples should enter marriage for no other reason than
procreation is an invention right out of an ascetic imagination; and if truth
be known, it's in defense of a celibate clergy. According to Gen 2:18-24 and
1Cor 7:7-9, marriage is primarily for the purpose of companionship rather
than procreation. If in fact deliberately childless marriages are wrong, then
Catholicism's platonic union of Joseph and the Lord's mom would be a sinful
relationship.

Women weren't created to be baby mills.

†. Gen 2:18 . .Yhvh God said: It's not good for Adam to be solitary; I will
make a fitting helper for him.

"a fitting helper" is from two Hebrew words. "Fitting" is from neged (neh'
ghed) which means: a front, i.e. part opposite; specifically a counterpart, or
mate. The word for "helper" is from 'ezer (ay'-zer) which means: aid.

Note that aid is not spelled with an "e" as in aide; so that Eve wasn't meant
to be Adam's servant, but rather, his assistance-- in other words; his aid as
in first aid. Note that assistance is not spelled the same as assistant nor are
the two words synonyms. An assistant does what they're told, while
assistance is support.

You know what that suggests to me? It suggests that Adam didn't really
have it all that easy in his world, and that Eve's companionship made his life
a lot more tolerable and worth the living. The helper that God made for
Adam would be both his counterpart, and his crutch. In other words; wives
are really at their best when they strengthen their men to go out that door
and face the big mean world.

In making a statement like Gen 2:18; God made it very clear right from the
beginning that human beings were not intended to live a celibate life. If
homo sapiens were packaged in a box of software, one of his system
requirements would be Companion. Woman's potential for companionship is
the primary reason that God made her-- not for her sex appeal nor for her
reproductive value; no, for companionship.

Before God introduced the man to a woman, He first gave the man an
opportunity to seek companionship from among the creatures of the animal
kingdom. That route was futile.

†. Gen 2:19-20a . . And the Lord God formed out of the earth all the wild
beasts and all the birds of the sky, and brought them to the man to see
what he would call them; and whatever the man called each living creature,
that would be its name. And the man gave names to all the cattle and to the
birds of the sky and to all the wild beasts;

I'm sure Adam loved animals; I mean look: he gave them all names; which
is something that people who make their living in animal husbandry try to
avoid because the practice can lead to attachments; thus making the
situation very difficult when it's time for sale and/or slaughter.

My wife's kindergarten class visited a working dairy farm last week where all
the cows and the calves have number tags stapled in their ears. On the
books, those numbers are the bovines' names; but in a matter of minutes,
my wife's kinders had given several of the little calves real names because
it's just in our nature to do that. (I named one White Shoulder because it
had an epaulette of white hair on its right shoulder)

But as cute and cuddly as creatures are, they just don't have what it takes
to be the kind of companion that a human being really needs.

†. Gen 2:20b . . but for Adam no fitting helper was found.

That's telling me that people who seek companionship from a pet are out of
kilter because pets are unbefitting-- they're a lower form of life than homo
sapiens; and God didn't create them to be man's companion, no, He created
them to be man's servants.

†. Gen 1:26 . .Then God said: Let us make man in our image, in our
likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air,
over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move
along the ground.

†. Gen 1:28 . . God blessed them and said to them: Rule over the fish of the
sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the
ground.

Upon seeing Eve for the very first time, Adam didn't exclaim: Hot diggity
dog! Now I can get laid! No he didn't say that at all. He said: this one is
bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. In other words: Finally somebody I
can relate to. (compare Laban's response to Jacob's tale in Gen 29:13-14)

A few years ago here in Oregon a priest, after some thirty years of practice,
gave up his calling and got married because he said he couldn't stand being
alone anymore. I think he made a very wise decision; and no doubt saved
his sanity too.

Cliff
/
 

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
Birth Control: Is It Christian?

As Christians I'm sure none of us would ever expect Jesus to be passing out male condoms in front of any High School.
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
107
0
44
Australia
BIRTH CONTROL v CONTRACEPTION: The difference between Contraception and Birth Control is substantial. Contraception is limited to just interfering with Conception, while Birth Control can be a vast range of acts from murder which cuts off people's ability to reproduce, to late marriage, no marriage, abstinence in marriage, infanticide, child murder, sterilization, abortion, and many, many other things which curtail life's reproduction.

COMMON SENSE: We see so many people having just one or two children, and then suddenly they lose one or two, and end up having none. Wouldn't it make just common sense for them to have more children as insurance against loss. When you see how totally pained and desperate they are when they suffer the loss of the one child, you think they should have wisely insured against such devastation. With them it seems like one child is a blessing but two or three or more is some sort of curse. How can this one million dollar child be worth any pain and sacrifice, but more of them be worth nothing, or less than nothing. It is puzzling to figure how these people figure. Or if they figure sanely at all.

CHILDREN AS A BURDEN: So many profess to love children passionately but then don't have any, or just one or two. How does it make sense? And as far as ability to support is concerned, the richest have the fewest children. Does that not destroy the idea that children are a financial burden?

MENTAL ILLNESS: Is it not possible that those who are not marrying and having lots of children are just plain mentally ill? they violate all of the norms of nature, and violate the norms of every religion, and violate what seems to be common sense. Is that not a fairly good definition of insanity to some degree? It seems to be fair we have to at least look at that possibility.

First question...do you have children? That would be a good place to start before going on about this...
Second question...do you believe in responsibility? Not just your apparent belief that we are responsible for populating the world as much as we can...but responsibility towards the family God has given you?
I ask this because I think it's a question that changes the game, so to speak. Let me tell you my story. I grew up knowing I wanted to marry and have a family. I wasn't long after I married that I yearned for kids. And happily, I fell pregnant. I couldn't have known then that my body seems violently opposed to pregnancy. Simply put, I nearly died. After throwing up every hour for five weeks, not eating or drinking at all in that time and surviving only on a hospital drip, the doctors came to me and said I had two choices. Abort the baby, or both of us would probably die. My husband and I didn't really like those choices. So they came up with a third...they air lifted me to our capital city and palmed me off as a problem they couldn't cope with. Happily, the bigger hospital was better, and I finally came out off that terrible morning sickness. But my health never really recovered properly...I have CFS, and the doctors think I had it before that time, but the pregnancy really gave it a foot hold. So there we were with a beautiful new baby...completely sleep deprived...I was unwell and my husband had to work so we could all eat. It was a very, very difficult time. After four years my health slowly began to improve, and we decided after much deliberation and prayer, to try again. And so we did...I fell pregnant, and while it wasn't as intense this time...it lasted longer. I was half way through my pregnancy before I could eat properly again and not feel sick every moment of every day. And then my pelvis pulled apart 20 weeks early...so I was bed ridden and in pain for the rest of it. I could barely walk by the time our little number 2 came along. And again, my body took a bashing because of it.
Now, I love my kids...always have! I wouldn't take 'em back for anything. But at this point, knowing it takes about five years before I can actually care for my family (cook meals, wash clothes, take them to school, buy the groceries...etc), it is really not a responsibly thing to consider having another child. Emotionally those time have been severely tough on me and my husband. I live in an isolated area where there is no help and an hours drive just to get food. Should I become as sick again, there is no way I could care for the children I already have...my husband would have to quit work...which would mean absolutely no money. And despite the claims of large families on 'meagre budgets'...it is actually impossible to feed people with no money...to have a roof and warmth.
So you may claim that not having more children is selfish of us and goes against nature...but what we are doing is taking the responsibility to the children we do have, seriously. I want to be there for them, not locked in my bedroom exhausted and sick all the time. I want to be able to support my husband as he works, so that he can have the peace of mind knowing that his kids are in safe and capable hands. And I'm not afraid one bit that this is unbiblical. How many women in scripture had only one child? Sarah, Elizabeth...plenty more! God gives us circumstances...and I believe we are to take them and live for him through them. God has given me two healthy wonderful children, and I will bring them up knowing of Him. That's my job...not popping more out like bunnies and leaving them to fend for themselves.
And your insanity idea? Pffft. I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. People who deliberately don't want kids are perhaps selfish...but hardly insane. Kids are hard work...they take up your life...your life is not about you any more, it's about them. And that's okay, I don't mind that. But it's not insanity to want to hold onto your life. As I said...selfishness covers it, but not insanity.

BUT WHERE ARE THOSE PROTESTANT CHURCHES THAT OPPOSE BIRTH CONTROL? ARE THERE NONE AT ALL? EVEN THE MORMONS SEEM TO HAVE NO DOCTRINE ON THE MATTER, OTHER THAN IT IS A SIN NOT TO MARRY. WHAT ABOUT KILLING THE FRUIT OF THAT MARRIAGE.?

CHRISTIAN REACTION: Yes, there is this hostility to raising this issue in the church. It is like hitting a really sore spot, and the patient jumps through the ceiling and sort of goes ballistic, even ministers. For they of all people know what the Bible says, but don't always like what they know, and their congregation can control what they say as they control their income.

Check out MarsHill church in Seattle...they talk about this issue. In particular they cover it in their sermon series "Religion saves...and nine other misconceptions"
 

Shirley

New Member
Aug 15, 2011
334
61
0
Ohio USA
Are there any Protestant churches, (other than the Catholic Church,) that teach that Birth Control is a sin? If not why not? What do people have against little children that never did any harm to anyone? If you have one or two, don't you just love them? And if so, why wouldn't you want more of such wonderful lovable little people? When did innocent children get to be a political issue, dividing political parties? Are not children non-partisan?

Yes, people have the right to be wrong, or right, in a democratic Republic like our own, but why is Birth Control fighting words, and a fighting issue? Should BC be something that turns people to sword points? Should it divide families, and ruin family dinners? Who is against children?

Has anyone ever been tried and executed for having, or not having children, (except in Communist China of course)? Why is this an issue that angers more people than anything else?

I'm doing research on this, and I would appreciate knowing of any of those Protestant Churches that oppose all Birth Control.

Just my opinion, but when I hear that anyone is opposed to birth control, or say it is a sin when we already have so many people starving to death and so many homeless in the world, I just can not believe it. The earth already is filled to overflowing with people. Most people who have one or two children struggle just to make ends meet. The people who can least afford it have the most children and then others have to support them. God gave us brains so we could use them. What good is it having so many children that all your children have a miserable life. It is ridiculous!!!! My brother had eight kids and my mom had to buy their clothes and toys. None of them were ever treated special and the older ones had to work super hard to raise the younger ones. None of them get to go to college. None of them got any special attention and my kids got no attention from their Grandparents at all b/c they were so busy helping care for the many children of my brother. Not only that but I can tell you that it was stressful for them to come up with enough food and the children were often hungry!

I think it is extremely selfish for people to have children they can not afford to care for. Selfish and irresponsible!
 

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
God loves children. God loves all the souls He can get to be with Him in heaven.It is mans inhumanity to mankind that causes poverty. the world is full of wealth.greed. God wants His Church to care for the worlds needy people, which it does. Remember Matt. 25: 31-46. It doesn't make any difference if you think you're saved, what matters to God is stated in that passage . Matt.25:31-46 may well be the first answers that Jesus will give you on your judgment day.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Following that logic it is also a sin to remain single,Mormon's interestingly enough teach this,i know i was one....it would also be a sin to not have sex when you are married,this mindset comes from the puritan idea that pleasure is sin and must be atoned for in some way....taken a bit further it would be a sin to have sex when one's wife is unable to have children since it would just be for the"selfish" pleasure of the man and woman and not for the purpose of procreation,same if the man for some reason were sterile....indeed when a couple reaches the point in their marriage because of age that they cannot produce children they should stop having sex since at that point it is nothing but a sinful,selfish indulgence.

Being single and celibate is just another calling.
 

Hollyrock

New Member
Nov 17, 2011
471
47
0
USA
Are there any Protestant churches, (other than the Catholic Church,) that teach that Birth Control is a sin? If not why not? What do people have against little children that never did any harm to anyone? If you have one or two, don't you just love them? And if so, why wouldn't you want more of such wonderful lovable little people? When did innocent children get to be a political issue, dividing political parties? Are not children non-partisan?

Yes, people have the right to be wrong, or right, in a democratic Republic like our own, but why is Birth Control fighting words, and a fighting issue? Should BC be something that turns people to sword points? Should it divide families, and ruin family dinners? Who is against children?

Has anyone ever been tried and executed for having, or not having children, (except in Communist China of course)? Why is this an issue that angers more people than anything else?

I'm doing research on this, and I would appreciate knowing of any of those Protestant Churches that oppose all Birth Control.
What about the people who have like 19 children and counting and burden their children with responsibilities that are not theirs to bear ?
 

kensapp

New Member
Jul 8, 2012
32
0
0
59
Singapore
In the Bible, the first command ever given to woman and man was to "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth." A nation that grew, as did the Hebrews in the Old Testament, was termed blessed, while one that shrank was considered cursed. The mandate to be fruitful is still in effect among Christians. Christ's last command, as recorded in the book of Matthew, parallels the Lord's first command. Jesus says, "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey in everything I have commanded you.
 

Stan

New Member
Jul 19, 2012
391
5
0
70
Calgary, Alberta, CA.
I believe birth control is as much Christian as it is not. Maybe the question should be, is it allowed in scripture?
Let's not confuse it either, with abortion, or abortion with birth control. The two are different.

I don't see anywhere in the Bible that birth control is forbidden or even mentioned. This is something that is between husband & wife,
and God. To some it may not be an option and to others it is.
 

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
Stan, the Bible does state that spilling one's seed on the ground [ or into a condom ] is wrong ,a sin ] Read it in its entirety-

Christian leaders were unanimous in speaking out against artificial birth control for almost 2,000 years. In fact, all Christians were united in their position that contraception was a violation of God's will until the 20th century. As late as 1920, the Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Church stated its uncompromising rejection of all forms of artificial birth control.
But at the Lambeth Conference of 1930, a groundbreaking resolution was passed that allowed the use of contraception. Soon after, other Protestant churches followed suit, and now almost all have no objection to using contraception within marriage.
The Catholic Church stood apart. Just a few months after the 1930 Lambeth Conference, Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical Casti Connubii (On Christian Marriage), which speaks of the holiness and dignity of marriage and clearly spells out the Church's teachings against the use of artificial birth control. It did, however, affirm the morality of "making recourse to the infertile times of the woman's menstrual cycle.â€
Later popes echoed this teaching—in Humanae Vitae; in Pope John Paul II's book Love and Responsibility (published in 1960 when he was Karol Wojtyla, bishop of Krakow); in his apostolic exhortation Familiaris Consortio (On the Role of the Christian Family in the Modern World, 1981); and, of course, in "Theology of the Body,†his general audiences from 1979 to 1984.
After reading, talking to friends and much self-reflection, I narrowed it down to four main points put forth by many Evangelicals in defending the use of contraceptives in marriage. Let's look at each one and answer them.
It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that artificial birth control is prohibited.
Catholics often cite the story of Onan in Genesis as an example of God's disapproval of birth control. Onan, son of Judah, was commanded by his father to fulfill his duty according to ancient Jewish law to father children for his dead brother. Onan knew the offspring would not be considered his own, so he "spilled the semen on the ground†(Gen. 38:9) each time he slept with his brother's wife. "What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him†(Gen. 39:10).
Protestants might argue that God was simply angry with Onan for failing to honor a commandment to produce a child with his dead brother's wife. But if one looks at Deuteronomy 25:9-10, it is clear that the penalty for this failure is public humiliation, not death (the widow "shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, and pull his sandal off his foot, and spit in his face; . . . And the name of his house shall be called in Israel, the house of him that had his sandal pulled offâ€).
Onan's actions evoked a much more serious response. Early Jewish and Christian commentators believed that by spilling his semen Onan had violated God's natural law, the design he built into the human race, which led them to condemn the practice of birth control as being against God's law. From the Teachings of the Catholic Church
 

Stan

New Member
Jul 19, 2012
391
5
0
70
Calgary, Alberta, CA.
Neo, adding your words [or condom], doesn't help your credibility what-so-ever. As I have repeatedly said to you, I do NOT care what the RC has to say about interpreting the Bible as so many of their interpretations are WRONG.
The Levitical Law came much later than Gen 38, and IF your premise was true then the Levitical Law would have reflected the same severity. The issue is that Onan disobeyed Judah, God's chosen leader. Or do you think Onan's action were worse than Judah's subsequent actions? Again you, and the RC, take one verse and build a doctrine on it. A doctrine that does not hold up under scrutiny or subsequent scripture. Besides this verse about semen, read the other five in Leviticus and tell me just how severe the punishment is there. No where near being put to death. One day God will be able to make His actions understandable to us with so limited a capacity for understanding some them, but for today we must accept, in faith, that God did what He did and that we do NOT require Him to justify His actions.
 

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
Neo, adding your words [or condom], doesn't help your credibility what-so-ever. As I have repeatedly said to you, I do NOT care what the RC has to say about interpreting the Bible as so many of their interpretations are WRONG.
The Levitical Law came much later than Gen 38, and IF your premise was true then the Levitical Law would have reflected the same severity. The issue is that Onan disobeyed Judah, God's chosen leader. Or do you think Onan's action were worse than Judah's subsequent actions? Again you, and the RC, take one verse and build a doctrine on it. A doctrine that does not hold up under scrutiny or subsequent scripture. Besides this verse about semen, read the other five in Leviticus and tell me just how severe the punishment is there. No where near being put to death. One day God will be able to make His actions understandable to us with so limited a capacity for understanding some them, but for today we must accept, in faith, that God did what He did and that we do NOT require Him to justify His actions.

Where did I say anything about being put to death [ physically ] You certainly weren't ever Catholic, if you were you were never very attentive, because you know absolutely zilch about Christ's Teachings.Name one Catholic Doctrine that is based on one verse alone.
The old law wasn't abolished by Christ, but fulfilled by Him.
One more thing that you can't seem to comphehend and that is that there is only One Interpretation and that One True Interpretation of the Holy Bible had to have been interpreted correctly by the Bishops of the Catholic Church when they selected the correct canon list that compile the Canonical Books that comprise the New Testament, thus giving us the completed Holy Bible that you, as a Protestant accept as the inerrant Word of God.
All competent historians, secular, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, agree that it was the bishops of the Catholic Church that gave us the completed Bible, and that is a true historical fact, you in no way can dispute that with any reputable historical documentation.
You as a Protestant deny that Christ " Authorized" His Church to be founded and based on His chosen apostles/successors [ Luke 10: 16 ; Matt. 18:18; John 20:23; Matt. 28:18-20 ] ] as His earthy authority.
To deny the existence of an earthy authority leaves the faithful to their own wits about what is divinely revealed and consequently to their own selves as a source of infallible truth.
 

Stan

New Member
Jul 19, 2012
391
5
0
70
Calgary, Alberta, CA.
Where did I say anything about being put to death [ physically ] You certainly weren't ever Catholic, if you were you were never very attentive, because you know absolutely zilch about Christ's Teachings.Name one Catholic Doctrine that is based on one verse alone.
The old law wasn't abolished by Christ, but fulfilled by Him.
One more thing that you can't seem to comphehend and that is that there is only One Interpretation and that One True Interpretation of the Holy Bible had to have been interpreted correctly by the Bishops of the Catholic Church when they selected the correct canon list that compile the Canonical Books that comprise the New Testament, thus giving us the completed Holy Bible that you, as a Protestant accept as the inerrant Word of God.
All competent historians, secular, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, agree that it was the bishops of the Catholic Church that gave us the completed Bible, and that is a true historical fact, you in no way can dispute that with any reputable historical documentation.
You as a Protestant deny that Christ " Authorized" His Church to be founded and based on His chosen apostles/successors [ Luke 10: 16 ; Matt. 18:18; John 20:23; Matt. 28:18-20 ] ] as His earthy authority.
To deny the existence of an earthy authority leaves the faithful to their own wits about what is divinely revealed and consequently to their own selves as a source of infallible truth.

Same old neo...no grace at all. Using the scripture you did shows your acceptance of the penalty even though the penalty had nothing to do with his act of spilling his semen. ALL I know is Christ's teachings and you have already tried to sell us on one verse,
John 20:23, being the Bibles validation of priests hearing confession and forgiving sins. I won't go into more so as to take this off topic. Your perspective is purely RC and does NOT reflect facts in eveidence. The RC canon is based on 72 books, whereas the Protestant canon is based on 66 books. Other differences are codex's used. The biggest difference there is Latin vs Greek. As the NT was written in Greek I tend to trust the original Greek over the original Latin.
God and His Word are the ONLY infallibility I trust in. NO man was or is infallible, except for Jesus. I trust scholars that have continually proven themselves. Over the centuries, the RC authorities have constantly proven they do NOT correctly handle the Word of truth. A lot of indivduals do I am pleased to say, but not the leadership.
Back to the OP.
 

neophyte

Member
Apr 25, 2012
669
12
18
Same old neo...no grace at all. Using the scripture you did shows your acceptance of the penalty even though the penalty had nothing to do with his act of spilling his semen. ALL I know is Christ's teachings and you have already tried to sell us on one verse,
John 20:23, being the Bibles validation of priests hearing confession and forgiving sins. I won't go into more so as to take this off topic. Your perspective is purely RC and does NOT reflect facts in eveidence. The RC canon is based on 72 books, whereas the Protestant canon is based on 66 books. Other differences are codex's used. The biggest difference there is Latin vs Greek. As the NT was written in Greek I tend to trust the original Greek over the original Latin.
God and His Word are the ONLY infallibility I trust in. NO man was or is infallible, except for Jesus. I trust scholars that have continually proven themselves. Over the centuries, the RC authorities have constantly proven they do NOT correctly handle the Word of truth. A lot of indivduals do I am pleased to say, but not the leadership.
Back to the OP.

This is my last question for today. please answer this;- Why do Protestants recognize the early Church councils at Hippo and Carthage as the first instances in which the NT canon was officially ratified , but ignore the fact that those same councils ratified the OT canon used by the Catholic Church today but abandoned by Protestants at the Reformation ?
Good Night and God Bless.