Birth Control: Is It Christian?

[aspen]

Neo is in a bit of a no win situation - if he argues from the Catholic viewpoint on scripture he is criticized for being a blind follower of the Catholic Church - if he provides his own opinion, he is accused of not even being able to present the catholic point of view. Nothing less than a Protestant-orthodox response (otherwise called the correct, 'biblical' response) is even accepted.

 

[Stan]

This is my last question for today. please answer this;- Why do Protestants recognize the early Church councils at Hippo and Carthage as the first instances in which the NT canon was officially ratified , but ignore the fact that those same councils ratified the OT canon used by the Catholic Church today but abandoned by Protestants at the Reformation ?
Good Night and God Bless.

Actually I think most Protestants recognize all the pre-ecumenical councils as well. These two councils were the ecumenical councils where-in the RC and other Orthodox churches did not agree on ALL issues, unlike the pre-ecumenical councils. They were also ruled over by the Emperors of the day. In any event most Protestant denominations today accept and use the same OT as Judaism does. Please remember that Protestants came out of the RC due to many lies and misinterpretation of the canon that did exist at that time. The fact that today both Protestants and RC's agree on the same NT and NOT the same OT has more to do with what the Hebrews knew about their Bible(being the chosen people of God) than what the councils of the 3rd., 4th., and 5th. centuries did.

 

[brightmorningstar]

When one is preventing conception, I see no problem.

The problem is that we have people who are for the right to kill unborn babies.

 

[Stan]

When one is preventing conception, I see no problem.

The problem is that we have people who are for the right to kill unborn babies.

and that is 100% WRONG and NOT the topic of this thread.

 

[Jon-Marc]

God said to Adam and Eve, "Be fruitful and multiply", but I don't think He expects people to bring children into the world when they aren't truly wanted and won't be loved and cared for as they deserve. I read today about a woman who left her baby in the car with the windows rolled up while she shopped for clothes. Fortunately, the baby was seen by someone and rescued, although they estimate the temperature in the car had probably reached 140 degrees. The baby was unconscious and sweating and would have died.

 

[Stan]

God said to Adam and Eve, "Be fruitful and multiply", but I don't think He expects people to bring children into the world when they aren't truly wanted and won't be loved and cared for as they deserve. I read today about a woman who left her baby in the car with the windows rolled up while she shopped for clothes. Fortunately, the baby was seen by someone and rescued, although they estimate the temperature in the car had probably reached 140 degrees. The baby was unconscious and sweating and would have died.

Agreed and God said that IN THE BEGINNING. We have multiplied and filled the earth. What I want to understand is why anyone would put their life at risk to have 22 children, and lose 2 others that spontaneously aborted?

 

[FounderChurch]

God said to Adam and Eve, "Be fruitful and multiply", but I don't think He expects people to bring children into the world when they aren't truly wanted and won't be loved and cared for as they deserve. I read today about a woman who left her baby in the car with the windows rolled up while she shopped for clothes. Fortunately, the baby was seen by someone and rescued, although they estimate the temperature in the car had probably reached 140 degrees. The baby was unconscious and sweating and would have died.

You are putting yourself in the position of judge, jury and executioner of those children that YOU deem do not receive that perfect care that YOU think they should have. Why not ask the child if it wants to be born into less than perfect circumstances.

But, in any case I am referring in particular only to those couples who would make the best parents, which is those who have jobs, homes, Salvation, a church, marriage licenses, education and good health, and who also want children. These are the one's who are having the fewest children, and I want to encourage them to have a lot more.

Of course, I agree it is desirable that all children be wanted, and well cared for, but many of us would not be here if our parents had to pass your man made litmus test you propose. Ask yourself the question, would you rather not be born if your parents could not provide all the goodies for you? I don't think anyone, or any child, would ask not to be born, other than in a temporary fit of anger.

 

[neophyte]

Agreed FounderChurch, it's too bad some people don't cherish life, God certainly does.

 

[whitestone]

Birth control is a private thing between would-be parents to be. It is no other person's or organization's jurisdiction.

That pretty much deals with that

 

[FounderChurch]

I believe birth control is as much Christian as it is not. Maybe the question should be, is it allowed in scripture?
Let's not confuse it either, with abortion, or abortion with birth control. The two are different.

I don't see anywhere in the Bible that birth control is forbidden or even mentioned. This is something that is between husband & wife, and God. To some it may not be an option and to others it is.

The whole Bible is a refutation and condemnation of Birth control by any means, whether they are natural, or unnatural, or artificial. The Catholic Rhythm Method, endorsed by the Catholic Humanae Vitae Encyclical kills babies just as efficiently as Condoms, or any other method, device or poison. The Catholic Church is totally wrong in splitting hairs that way, and they violated 2000 years of Church teaching in order to do it. They call it a providential decision. Meaning they didn't want to risk emptying the Church of members if they took a hard line on killing babies by any means.

Now understand this: Birth Control is worse than abortion, and abortion is worse than infanticide, and infanticide is worse than murder, so go figure. With each step up the line the baby has less chance to live.

Now Onan was executed by God and sent to Hell, for taking innocent life NOT NOT NOT for violating the Leverite Law, or disobeying God in any way. Our God is a just God, and He does not kill idly. The punishment for violating the Leverite Law was a small fine and public humiliation by the woman slapping the man across the face with her sandal in front of the whole church congregation.

I guess people just need to mind their own buisness on this issue,i do however find your notion that its best to have lots of children so that if one dies it won't matter as much to be quite a novel approach...kind of turns the love for children on its head....you do have a point tho,i used to have two cars and felt a certain sense of security that if one wouldn't start the other one would.

At least you have common sense!

 

[FounderChurch]

Birth control is a private thing between would-be parents to be. It is no other person's or organization's jurisdiction.

That pretty much deals with that

You saying so, doesn't make it so. Unless you are not a Christian. Problem is Birth Control takes innocent life, and on some level you have to deal with that, both here and in the after life.

 

[whitestone]

You saying so, doesn't make it so. Unless you are not a Christian. Problem is Birth Control takes innocent life, and on some level you have to deal with that, both here and in the after life.

whoever told you that is just being a busybody, and you repeating it only makes you a gossip of bad information. Let God give the answer to the people involved and keep your own nose where it belongs is God's advice.

(Pro 26:17)

He that passing by vexeth himself with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.

　

 

[Jon-Marc]

You are putting yourself in the position of judge, jury and executioner of those children that YOU deem do not receive that perfect care that YOU think they should have. Why not ask the child if it wants to be born into less than perfect circumstances.

I'm not talking about less than "perfect". I would have been happy with a less than "perfect" childhood if I had just received love and a little less abuse from my dad. Do you not read the news where children are often abused by their parents emotionally, physically, and sexually, and many are murdered by one of their parents? As one who was physically and emotionally abused by my dad until I graduated from high school and moved out, I say that children should not be brought into such an environment. Because of what was done to me, I messed up my life, destroyed two marriages, and turned my daughters against me by not knowing how to be a good, loving husband or father. Abuse begets jmore abuse, and the cycle goes on and one and on until someone puts and end to it and determines "I'm not going to be like my dad (or mom)."

Life for growing children doesn't have to be "perfect" for them to be happy and grow into mature and loving adults who love their children instead of abusing or killing them; it just needs to be a little less destructive.

 

[Stan]

The whole Bible is a refutation and condemnation of Birth control by any means, whether they are natural, or unnatural, or artificial. The Catholic Rhythm Method, endorsed by the Catholic Humanae Vitae Encyclical kills babies just as efficiently as Condoms, or any other method, device or poison. The Catholic Church is totally wrong in splitting hairs that way, and they violated 2000 years of Church teaching in order to do it. They call it a providential decision. Meaning they didn't want to risk emptying the Church of members if they took a hard line on killing babies by any means.

Now understand this: Birth Control is worse than abortion, and abortion is worse than infanticide, and infanticide is worse than murder, so go figure. With each step up the line the baby has less chance to live.

Now Onan was executed by God and sent to Hell, for taking innocent life NOT NOT NOT for violating the Leverite Law, or disobeying God in any way. Our God is a just God, and He does not kill idly. The punishment for violating the Leverite Law was a small fine and public humiliation by the woman slapping the man across the face with her sandal in front of the whole church congregation.

Well then maybe you should have provided a few verses, seeing as the WHOLE Bible refutes birth control. A baby ONLY happens at conception. Sperm don't make babies on their own and neither do eggs. You're saying you're against people preventing conception? I don't agree that the CHURCH has been teaching against BC for 2000 years. Maybe the RCC.

I don't agree that ANY sin BUT one, is worse than any other. Any form of abortion is WRONG, except for medical or rape.

Onan was about his disobeying what he was commanded to do, NOT about spilling his seed. Your eisegetical view of this scenario is wrong, or the Law would reflect death for punishment of spilling your seed, and it DOESN'T. GOD is, after all, consistent in what He does.

 

[neophyte]

ChurchFounder, you made a ridiculous statement, when you wrote that the Catholic Church encourages married couples to engage in sexual relationships during the wife's menstrual period , what a crock, where do you anti-Catholics dig-up these lies and ignorant ideas? , Are you still reading Jack Chicks comic books?

ChurchFounder ,you wrote: "On top of which it violates the Holy Bible which specifically forbids couples having sex during a woman's monthly menstruation. The teaching of Catholic couples to have sex during the woman's menstruation period for the sole purpose of killing babies is disgusting."

please refrain from using ignorance when writing about Christ's Church

Onan spilled his semen on the ground for the purpose of making the act sterile. His sin was not the waste of semen—semen is often "wasted" in the sense that, during relations, its presence does not always result in pregnancy. Onan’s sin was acting in such a way that intentionally sterilized the act. This is very different from NFP, which never attempts to render an act sterile—every act remains open to the possibility of procreation. NFP simply seeks to regulate pregnancy by observing abstinence during the woman’s fertile period.

 

[Strat]

You saying so, doesn't make it so. Unless you are not a Christian. Problem is Birth Control takes innocent life, and on some level you have to deal with that, both here and in the after life.

Please explain how a child that is never conceived can have its life taken...you almost sound like a Mormon...i was raised in that and they at that time taught that there were spirits floating around in limbo waiting for a physical body and it was the responsability fo every good Mormon to provide that physical body through pro creation.....a young man or woman could expect pressure form the church to marry immediately after their "mission" trip....are you a Mormon ?

 

[Stan]

Please explain how a child that is never conceived can have its life taken...you almost sound like a Mormon...i was raised in that and they at that time taught that there were spirits floating around in limbo waiting for a physical body and it was the responsability fo every good Mormon to provide that physical body through pro creation.....a young man or woman could expect pressure form the church to marry immediately after their "mission" trip....are you a Mormon ?

He's nothing now Strat...his account is disabled!