Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

MA2444 said:

I've been listening to Charles Stanley's programs for years and years

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He's a false teacher, sorry to hear you have been deceived by his false teachings.


In his book, Eternal Security, Charles Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)

MA2444 said:

So I suggest that you back up your despariging words about the man or else not go around repeating things you have heard.

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Suggestion to not speak the truth about this false teachers to help others not get deceived... declined!

Soyeong said:

... I don't see the point of all of the verses that exhort us to continue to the end...

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The main "proof-text" for that is lifted out of context from a passage about the end times in Israel.
"but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." - Matthew 24:13

Matthew 24:1-14 NIV

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times​

24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

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St. SteVen said:

The main "proof-text" for that is lifted out of context from a passage about the end times in Israel.
"but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." - Matthew 24:13

Matthew 24:1-14 NIV

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times​

24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

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How is that out of context? Do you think hat those who do not stand firm to the end will also be saved? In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so that is the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to the nations before the end in Matthew 24:14, so it is clear that we need to repent in contrast with the wickedness that he talked about in the previous verses.

Soyeong said:

How is that out of context? Do you think hat those who do not stand firm to the end will also be saved?

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Applying it to salvation in general is out of context. It has ONLY to do with:
The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times. (for those LIVING in Israel)

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Big Boy Johnson said:

He's a false teacher, sorry to hear you have been deceived by his false teachings.
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In his book, Eternal Security, Charles Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)




Suggestion to not speak the truth about this false teachers to help others not get deceived... declined!

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None of that says what you said it will say. ?? WHat's with that?

"Charles Stanley straight up say the gay guy is still saved and will still go to Heaven...."

Where does it say that? He straight up says it you say...Where?

Being a gay christian is not being a lukewarm christian. It is being an ice cold christian. So if Jesus will spew lukewarm christians out of His mouth, what will He do to gays?

It is written...there will be no gays in heaven. No adulterers in heaven. Nothing like that.
Charles Stanley is a good man of God and he knows the gay guys will not be there! So you should stand down from profaning Charles Stanley.
I mean, if we are supposed to pray for our enemies and bless them, then why arent you the christian man blessing him instead of talking him down? You do imply that he is the enemy and a deciver, right? So what profit is it to you to curse the man?

MA2444 said:

Where does it say that? He straight up says it you say...Where?

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In... his book!

If you were really a fan of this guy, you'd go get his book.

I was supposed to have been a best seller from what I've heard.

I gave the page numbers so if you get the book you can look up the quotes.

This guy has a long history to saying and teachings things that are not biblical, so sorry to hear you got all caught up in his blah blah.

Big Boy Johnson said:

In... his book!

If you were really a fan of this guy, you'd go get his book.

I was supposed to have been a best seller from what I've heard.

I gave the page numbers so if you get the book you can look up the quotes.

This guy has a long history to saying and teachings things that are not biblical, so sorry to hear you got all caught up in his blah blah.

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No, I'm a fan of the truth. You have not backed up your assertion with the quotes you provided and you dodge further confirmation that your words are the truth, so that sort of says it all dont'cha think?

Charles Stanley was a good man and you are wrong. Let the man rest in peace. Do you have some sort of agenda against Charles? Lol. Too late! His record has been closed, lol.

St. SteVen said:

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed post.
Do you believe that the "saved' have eternal security?

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Why do you put quotation marks around saved?

BlessedPeace said:

Why do you put quotation marks around saved?

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That's a good question, thanks.

Yet another term I don't like.
Too often used as a binary assignment. Saved/Lost (as if everyone is one, or the other)
So, "lost" would be another one I put in quotes. The evil twin of "Saved". - LOL

Salvation is a broader term than just Saved/Lost.
Anyway, I'm a Christian Universalist. So I understand that everyone has already been saved.
Salvation is what God does, not what we do. We can't save ourselves.

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St. SteVen said:

That's a good question, thanks.

Yet another term I don't like.
Too often used as a binary assignment. Saved/Lost (as if everyone is one, or the other)
So, "lost" would be another one I put in quotes. The evil twin of "Saved". - LOL

Salvation is a broader term than just Saved/Lost.
Anyway, I'm a Christian Universalist. So I understand that everyone has already been saved.
Salvation is what God does, not what we do. We can't save ourselves.

/

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Thank you for explaining.

BlessedPeace said:

Why do you put quotation marks around saved?

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Because nobody is "saved" until they endure to the end of their lives. While nobody can snatch us our of God's hand, we CAN "jump ship". I know there are those who claim that those dogs who return to their own vomit were not "saved" to begin with. There is zero ways to prove that. Those alive today are "being saved" with the help of God's spirit in them, but those people can still disobey. If they could not, why would we be warned to work out our own salvation with feat and trembling? Our reality is that we must obey God to the end or confess to the Father and repent of our misdeeds to start again.

OSAS is a doctrine not substantiated in Scripture. (all scripture must be compared before establishing a doctrine, right?)

BlessedPeace said:

Thank you for explaining.

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Do you view "saved" as a binary assignment? Either "Saved" or "Lost"?

I prefer to divide people into those who currently have a renewed relationship with God and those who don't yet.
From my perspective, everyone will have a renewed relationship with God eventually. Notice the breadth
in the scripture below. Everyone "in heaven and on earth and under the earth". Anyone missing?
BTW: "under the earth" means in the realm of the dead - Hades. (hell)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

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Spyder said:

OSAS is a doctrine not substantiated in Scripture. (all scripture must be compared before establishing a doctrine, right?)

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I think there is a biblical case on both sides of this issue. The two doctrinal positions are contradictory.

And OSAS is actually a derogatory term for Eternal Security.

I think we have a living hope. Not a "hope so" religion. Faith is knowing the unknowable. IMHO

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St. SteVen said:

I think there is a biblical case on both sides of this issue. The two doctrinal positions are contradictory.

And OSAS is actually a derogatory term for Eternal Security.

I think we have a living hope. Not a "hope so" religion. Faith is knowing the unknowable. IMHO

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Without Eternal Security we turn the Christian life into a high-wire act on a tightrope strung across the abyss of hell.
One wrong move and we are toast. We fearfully inch along in paralyzing fear with the flames of hell licking hungrily at our feet.
Who wants to live like that? Is that the situation that our loving heavenly Father put us in?

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St. SteVen said:

Without Eternal Security we turn the Christian life into a high-wire act on a tightrope strung across the abyss of hell.
One wrong move and we are toast. We fearfully inch along in paralyzing fear with the flames of hell licking hungrily at our feet.
Who wants to live like that? Is that the situation that our loving heavenly Father put us in?

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The "with fear and trembling" reference in Phil. 2 might suggest exactly this.

RedFan said:

The "with fear and trembling" reference in Phil. 2 might suggest exactly this.

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It does. It stops our "greasy grace" idea.

St. SteVen said:

Without Eternal Security we turn the Christian life into a high-wire act on a tightrope strung across the abyss of hell.
One wrong move and we are toast. We fearfully inch along in paralyzing fear with the flames of hell licking hungrily at our feet.
Who wants to live like that? Is that the situation that our loving heavenly Father put us in?

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No, it puts us back into confessing our sins and repentance. We must learn to be obedient to all the Jesus spoke for His Father.

St. SteVen said:
Without Eternal Security we turn the Christian life into a high-wire act on a tightrope strung across the abyss of hell.
One wrong move and we are toast. We fearfully inch along in paralyzing fear with the flames of hell licking hungrily at our feet.
Who wants to live like that? Is that the situation that our loving heavenly Father put us in?

RedFan said:

The "with fear and trembling" reference in Phil. 2 might suggest exactly this.

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I agree, it might. But does it?
And if so, is that all the Bible has to say on the subject?
Does this scripture do away with Eternal Security?

Philippians 2:12-13 NIV
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

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Spyder said:

No, it puts us back into confessing our sins and repentance. We must learn to be obedient to all the Jesus spoke for His Father.

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Do you believe in Eternal Security? Will God revoke his gift?

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I just can't square eternal security with the coming judgment that Scripture references. There is little point in a judgment if 100% will be judged positively.