Wrangler
Well-Known Member
While he thinks he is the master, he reveals much to learn he still has.
A trolling spirit is not of the body of Christ.
Women Pastors / Teachers
- Thread starter Big Boy Johnson
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A trolling spirit is not of the body of Christ.
So, men who never marry are disqualified too?
Obviously the verse in question is about polygamists being disqualified from ministry.
I've also heard the passage misused to prevent divorcees from ministry. Absurd!
The great Charles Stanley (who recently went home to be with our LORD) almost gave up
the ministry based on this verse when his wife of many years left him. Thankfully his congregation
(First Baptist Atlanta) convinced him to remain in ministry until his death.
You are missed, Pastor Charles!
3 Resurrections
Active Member
How about those who don't have any children, since that is also mentioned? In addition, those children cannot be accused of being either riotous or unruly either. So disqualify any wanting to be male elders who may be married but who have no children, or whose children have died, or who have misbehaving children - of any age even into adulthood, since Titus 1:6 doesn't really specify. If your son or daughter ever misbehaves at any time in their life, a male elder must then step down, if one is going to parse this text down to the nitty gritty details.
So the prophet Samuel should have been disqualified from his role because of his unruly adult sons...
Hint of instructions concerning qualifications to be church leaders here?
Er... NO!
Turns out, that was not the Holy Spirit you were hearing... it was a devil seeking to justify women being church leaders by shuck and jive to distract you with another scripture that does NOT even talk about qualifications for who can be church leaders.
The scripture you posted is concerning witnessing which ALL Christians are called to be involved in...
If you think the Lord allowed lies to be put in to His Word (1 Timothy 3:1-13, Titus 1:6-9) then just come out and say so.
Actually... the scripture specifically says men that are the husband of one wife are the ones that can be church leaders.
It's too bad that people claiming to be Christians cannot accept the instructions God gives in His Word... and instead listen to the devil and allow the enemy to choke God's Word out of their lives!
1 Timothy 3:2-13
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Well, now that I've gotten the innuendo champ on ignore...
The message of God to mankind is to be conveyed by mankind via the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19).
In a more perfect world where all believers realized we are priests of God and all male Christians called to preach and teach did so... then the ideal situation Paul wrote about in 1 Timothy 2 would be fulfilled to the letter. The male disciples would not have abandoned the LORD Jesus when he was arrested, they would have been at the tomb three days later when he arose from the grave... etc.
And again, if anyone has a problem with women teachers / preachers on the authority of the Holy Spirit:
then you step up and teach and preach.
The message of God to mankind is to be conveyed by mankind via the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19).
In a more perfect world where all believers realized we are priests of God and all male Christians called to preach and teach did so... then the ideal situation Paul wrote about in 1 Timothy 2 would be fulfilled to the letter. The male disciples would not have abandoned the LORD Jesus when he was arrested, they would have been at the tomb three days later when he arose from the grave... etc.
And again, if anyone has a problem with women teachers / preachers on the authority of the Holy Spirit:
then you step up and teach and preach.
Well, that interpretation of 1 Tim. 3:2 would disqualify Paul himself. I suppose the logic would go something like this: "Timmy, don't let any unmarried men be church leaders. They need practice first ruling their wives successfully. That's essential. I myself have never done it, so I can't be a church leader. And yes, I did tell the Corinthians it is better to be unmarried (1 Cor. 7:7-8), so the church leaders are gong to be the second-best choices, who I advised to marry only if they can't control their passions (1 Cor. 7:9). But hey, Timmy, it'll be fun to watch flawed men leading the show. Just like Peter!"
Those being led by the Holy Spirit... would believe that 1 Timothy 3:1-13, Titus 1:6-9 is the truth about women not meeting the qualifications the Lord gives for ministry
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
Romans 8:14
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as a woman pastor.
Pastor is male gender.
A woman who is called to leadership is known as a 'shepherdess' thus clearly denoting the female gender.
I'd like to see chapter and verse for 'shepherdess' since women are not pastors.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i personally do not believe in women as pastorettes but God can do as He pleases.
Genesis 29:9
Now while he was still speaking with them, Rachel came with her father’s sheep, for she was a shepherdess.
Deborah, the only female judge in the Bible, excelled in multiple areas.
Clearly one of the Bible’s most outstanding figures, she served ancient Israel as a prophetess , judge, military leader, songwriter, and minstrel (Judges 4–5)
Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.
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3 Resurrections
Active Member
Phoebe was undoubtedly a deacon. Women were serving as such in the early church. Yet we have the instruction in 1 Tim. 3:12 for male deacons to be the husbands of one wife. Therefore, this proscription against polygamy for male deacons did not prove women could not be deacons.
In the same way, the instruction in 1 Tim. 3:2 for male overseers to be the husband of one wife also does not prove women could not be an overseer. And to be precise, 1 Tim. 3:1 is not gender specific for those seeking the role of an overseer. It reads "If anyone desires eldership..."
The same requirement stipulated for the women serving in these roles was given in 1 Timothy 3:11. "In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things."
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Women serving in the Body of Christ = YES
Women as Deacons = YES
Women as Pastors(male gender) = NO
The reason there are women as pastors today is part of the satanic gender neutral agenda.
In addition to this you have gay pastors, pedophile pastors, catholic priests(mostly gay) and on it goes.....
The flood gates of hell have been opened - yet once again.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
[to be] pastors
ποιμένας (poimenas)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 4166: A shepherd; hence met: of the feeder, protector, and ruler of a flock of men. Of uncertain affinity; a shepherd.
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
Deacon is also from masculine origin but no women as pastors in scripture.
Any woman who believes she is led by God to be a 'pastor' should call herself a 'shepherdess' or pastorette.
By doing so, she submits to God's Authority as Founded in Genesis and the New Covenant.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Not when He has already said church leaders are men... He does not make Himself to be a liar.
She was not a priest so she was not a spiritual leader and authority over God's people.
She was not a spiritual leader and authority over God's people.
No women deacons... or church leaders that are in authority over men that are women at all.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
Well, no man or woman at all was labeled as a pastor by name in the NT. Pastoring (a verb) is the act of shepherding a flock. To pastor is to shepherd. Shepherding is not a strictly male occupation. Christ promised that whoever overcame and kept His works to the end would be given power over the nations to shepherd them with a rod of iron. Nothing really gender specific here in Revelation 2:26-27.
The only time "pastor" is used as a noun is in Ephesians 4:11, which you mentioned above. This was one of the descriptions of those "multitude of captives" which the ascending Christ brought out of the grave that day and gave as "gifts" to mankind. Those bodily-resurrected individuals were composed of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Those resurrected individuals were given to help build up the early church for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. There is no specific gender indicated there of those resurrected individuals.
Since there were women such as the "elect lady" in John 2 leading an assembly back in the early church and being commended for her work, you cannot assign the blame for today's pedophile and homosexual influences in the church solely on women serving as overseers. Sin is not gender specific, and never has been.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
3 Resurrections says: "Christ promised that whoever overcame and kept His works to the end would be given power over the nations to shepherd them with a rod of iron. Nothing really gender specific here in Revelation 2:26-27."
Your statement above only applies to RESURRECTED men/women who become COMPLETED Sons of God.
God is GENDER SPECIFIC from Genesis to Revelation.
Satan always seeks to undermine Genesis and the Gospel.
Whenever we seek to undermine God's Male Gender specified authority in His Word, the Body of Christ and society = we do the devils bidding.
Thus we have:
Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. 3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
13Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given [a]to her for a covering. 16But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.
Your statement above only applies to RESURRECTED men/women who become COMPLETED Sons of God.
God is GENDER SPECIFIC from Genesis to Revelation.
Satan always seeks to undermine Genesis and the Gospel.
Whenever we seek to undermine God's Male Gender specified authority in His Word, the Body of Christ and society = we do the devils bidding.
Thus we have:
Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. 3But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
13Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given [a]to her for a covering. 16But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
They are the three group bodily resurrection events which God scheduled to match the three formerly-required harvest feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and the Feast of Tabernacles. Attendance required. Two of these group resurrections have already occurred at Passover in AD 33 and Pentecost day in AD 70. We today are waiting on the third group resurrection event to take place at the time of year the FOT would have ordinarily been celebrated (the reason for the emphasis on the FOT in Zech. 14:16-19, after Christ's return to the Mt. of Olives in AD 70).
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