BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Drinking alcohol is not a sin.
If it was Jesus changing water to wine would be Jesus enabling sin.
What is sin with regard to alcohol consumption is getting drunk.
Drinking Alcohol, should a Christian do it?
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If it was Jesus changing water to wine would be Jesus enabling sin.
What is sin with regard to alcohol consumption is getting drunk.
Dan Clarkston
Active Member
And if the Bible is equivocal on the subject, what then?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
then anything taught or said , IF IT CONTRADICTS what is already written must be FLED .
enjoy that rhyme too
Contrary verses from two different writers
Can lead into curses and riot inciters.
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
BINGO!!! The Bible DOES NOT condemn drinking Alcoholic beverages (i.e. present them as a SINFUL ACT).
What the Bible DOES DO, is warn of the debilitating effects of alcohol consumption. The Bible Cautions against the use of alcohol (Or drugs), where the effects of alcohol may result in sinful situations, or bad (sometimes fatal) occurrences.
And then there's the "Addiction" issue.
ANYTHING that is COMPULSIVE, or addicting is a violation of the First Commandment - i.e.: "Thou shalt have no other Gods before ME". Addictions, or things that are compulsive, by definition are things that you MUST SERVE.
Mine was smoking cigarettes. I SERVED Nicotine with a single minded dedication for YEARS and only was able to BEAK that addiction, through God's power in my life (Long story). Some people serve their Drugs, their Alcoholic drinks, their HOBBYS, or their Professions to a toxic level, instead of serving God.
In a nutshell, God isn't too concerned about what you "have", but He's VERY CONCERNED about what has you.
So apparently when your car breaks down, you don't get it fixed.
You got a verse to support fixing your car? Indeed, you got a verse to support owning a car?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You could almost call Judaism and Christianity a drinking religion. When a drinking culture tells you not to be drunk or be a drunkard, it means something different than what most people understand.
Christ drank and drank with others.
Drinking wine was part of a very important Christian ritual.
One of Christ miracles was changing water into wine.
Christ used vineyards in his parables.
Paul told Timothy to drink wine on his travels for a very good reason…As you traveled back then each well had it own flora animal decaying in it….bird dropping….bugs….etc. Mixing water with wine helped neutralize the contaminates in the water.
Christianity built several symbologies from the wine, the grapes, the grapevines etc.
The belief that people back then were drinking grape juice is in error, unless they were drinking it from the press….and all presses were called winepresses and grape juice does not last in the summer….Try it....let grape juice sit in the heat for a couple days and drink it....and see what it does to you....it will remove all doubt that grape juice was a common drink. No refrigeration AHHH!
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Dan Clarkston
Active Member
Then I go with the Lord's point of view which is the only one that matters.
Nobody can prove that Jesus made wine that has alcoholic content
Since he just made it, it had not had time to ferment yet.
What I do is not not hang out with those that say foolish things such as this.
I've heard that from others before that Jesus was an alcoholic.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Ya, Just because Yeshua drank does not mean He was alcoholic.
Although the Bible says that He was more or less accused of it.
As Christianity moved on the concept of being pure or separating ourselves began to evolve and people got into this I am holier than thou, because I am celibate. I am holier than thou, because I don’t drink. I am holier than thou, because I don’t smoke. I am holier than thou, because I don’t gamble. And so we get in to the topic of man-made sins for the purpose of self edification…..because they are not in the Bible…..And Christianity started to transform into a don’t doers religion where it is more about what you don’t do rather than what you do that matters.
Translation: Then I go with MY point of view, which is the only one that matters, and call it the Lord's point of view.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Jesus was God. He made wine from water. A Jewish wedding includes wine, by tradition, not grape juice.
I am a curiosity. I can drink like a fish .......then never pick up another bottle for years afterward.
Never smoked ......no addictions.
My wife laughs at this. I'll walk in from work and tell her "I've had a desire for a beer for more than a month. Driving me crazy." "Go to the convenience store and buy a bottle of beer. Then tell the cashier. See ya in a year."
It's odd how some Christians believe they shouldn't drink alcohol and some Christian religions even ban it. Of course it is a problem for some people, but we don't all have addictive natures.
1 John 3:21
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God
1 John 3:21
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
There are Christians that do not believe in drinking. Is there something wrong with that? NO It is not a sin to not drink alcohol. But it is a sin to condemn those that do. False accusations can drive people away from Christianity. And that is all part of the man-made sins topic… people playing God. Is that a sin?
The Jewish leaders where big on doing things like this, like interpreting the Law to make it more burdensome and hard to keep and Christ called them out on it.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matthew 23 is a good chapter.
People like these will preach that the Bibles says drinking is a sin and smoking is a sin when neither are in the Bible. When just the opposite is true.
I like the ones that say that they always mixed it with water! And try to convince people that the wine at the Last Supper was a wine and water mix….LOL But the scriptures do not say that. The wine represented Christ’s blood….it was not watered down no more than His sacrifice was watered down.
Did they mix wine with water in Christ’s day? Well if we go with Bible only….NO. There is no description or example in the Bible Old or New Testament that they mixed wine with water. Now for the Bible only people that is that…..
But history tells another story….
The Greeks noted that cultures that drank wine often had less disease and were healthier. Of course they really did not know why but it is true. Over the last 50 years medical science has been finding more a more reasons why drinking wine in moderation has health benefits. And now we know why the ancient cultures that drank wine had less diseases and where healthier…even like less plagues.
Besides the health benefits we know how many ways the water was contaminated back then. To neutralize or reduce germs and bacteria it has be a 70/30 mix….70% wine.
So history shows that they did mix wine with water….maybe at every or most meals. They also knew that fresh moving water generally was more pure.
The next topic is “strong drink” what do the scriptures mean by this? To be perfectly honest….we do not know. There is no description of what strong drink is in the scriptures. What is strong drink in a drinking culture? The way the scriptures speak of strong drink, if it was just wine that would make Christ either stupid or a sinner. But no we do not know exactly what they meant by strong drink.
History tells us that during the 1st century that wine was not the only alcoholic beverage. But biblically from there it is speculation. People had been making wine for millenniums, can we speculate that they knew how to make Port wine….a stronger wine. History say that Port wine was not produced until the 1700’s. But sometimes the historians are surprised.
And then what is drunk or intoxicated in a drinking culture? Hard to say. I am just going to say negative affects. Now a day if your life revolves around drinking even in moderation, you are drinking too much. If drinking affects your health or your job or gets you in trouble with the Law….you are drinking too much. Moderation goes for most anything. But still this is advise, not biblical.
The Jewish leaders where big on doing things like this, like interpreting the Law to make it more burdensome and hard to keep and Christ called them out on it.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matthew 23 is a good chapter.
People like these will preach that the Bibles says drinking is a sin and smoking is a sin when neither are in the Bible. When just the opposite is true.
I like the ones that say that they always mixed it with water! And try to convince people that the wine at the Last Supper was a wine and water mix….LOL But the scriptures do not say that. The wine represented Christ’s blood….it was not watered down no more than His sacrifice was watered down.
Did they mix wine with water in Christ’s day? Well if we go with Bible only….NO. There is no description or example in the Bible Old or New Testament that they mixed wine with water. Now for the Bible only people that is that…..
But history tells another story….
The Greeks noted that cultures that drank wine often had less disease and were healthier. Of course they really did not know why but it is true. Over the last 50 years medical science has been finding more a more reasons why drinking wine in moderation has health benefits. And now we know why the ancient cultures that drank wine had less diseases and where healthier…even like less plagues.
Besides the health benefits we know how many ways the water was contaminated back then. To neutralize or reduce germs and bacteria it has be a 70/30 mix….70% wine.
So history shows that they did mix wine with water….maybe at every or most meals. They also knew that fresh moving water generally was more pure.
The next topic is “strong drink” what do the scriptures mean by this? To be perfectly honest….we do not know. There is no description of what strong drink is in the scriptures. What is strong drink in a drinking culture? The way the scriptures speak of strong drink, if it was just wine that would make Christ either stupid or a sinner. But no we do not know exactly what they meant by strong drink.
History tells us that during the 1st century that wine was not the only alcoholic beverage. But biblically from there it is speculation. People had been making wine for millenniums, can we speculate that they knew how to make Port wine….a stronger wine. History say that Port wine was not produced until the 1700’s. But sometimes the historians are surprised.
And then what is drunk or intoxicated in a drinking culture? Hard to say. I am just going to say negative affects. Now a day if your life revolves around drinking even in moderation, you are drinking too much. If drinking affects your health or your job or gets you in trouble with the Law….you are drinking too much. Moderation goes for most anything. But still this is advise, not biblical.
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
But...He's God. Would that be too hard for Him to speed up the process of fermentation?
It had to be fermented because it good wine! The guests said it was the best wine...!
Didn't have time to ferment, lol.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I have a bottle of red wine in the frige right now. I like to keep it around for communion.
And I usually wind up buying one 6 pack of beer during the hottest part of summer. The six pack usually last almost a month!
And I usually wind up buying one 6 pack of beer during the hottest part of summer. The six pack usually last almost a month!
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
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