3 levels of heaven (A fairytale or the truth?)

Sounds like Mormonism, they believe in 3 different levels of heaven, but its not biblical.

there are 3 different heavens according to scripture but not as you describe them.

1st is the air
2nd is the principalities and powers
3rd is God's throne

God bless

you could be right. the Word does not specify.

God bless

Inmate said:

I listen to some prophets that suggest there are 3 different levels in Heaven, Because Some Christians are saved by grace but have not become completely Holy in the eyes of God.

1st level - Lazy Christians go there who dont do any work for God, But kept his morals and their faith. remained saved but did no work (Saved by Grace)

2nd level - Christians who did some work for God, but still were not Holy enough for the 3rd level. God's throne is in the 3rd Heaven, He is HOLY, so we must be Holy in order to see him (Hence Jesus on the sermon on the mount saying be Holy, For Your Father in Heaven is Holy)

3rd Level - Christians who Are Holy and obedient to God can go there. This is for Pure Christians who spent their lives being led by the Holy spirit to the best of their ability. Really striving to become Holy, Setting themselves apart from the world Completely.

Do you believe this? and I believe there might be a bible verse about Christians who were saved but have no rewards

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The idea of there being 3 levels in Heaven most often comes from Paul's Message in 2 Corinthians 12 where he said he knew one that was once caught up to the third heaven, and heard words unspeakable not lawful to utter.

Paul wasn't talking about levels. He was talking about times.

There are 3 separate Heaven and earth ages written in God's Word. The first is Apostle Peter's "the world that then was", a pointer back to the time of Satan's original rebellion of old. The 2nd one is "the heavens and the earth which are now". And the final third one is the new heavens and a new earth of God's future Eternity. The one caught up in 2 Cor.12 was caught up to have a vision of the timing of that final of God's Eternity of the new heavens and new earth.

I wonder if they picked that up from the following verses about Paul's revelation



2 Corinthians 12:1-13
(NKJV)

12 It is doubtless[a] not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

I understand this as the the "spiritual" heaven, and the 1st heaven was the sky we could see during the day, the 2nd was the night sky with all the stars/planets etc., in the heavens. I know I read somewhere about these references from back in Paul's day, people used to describe those things (sky during the day, sky at night, and the spiritual heaven we cannot see, yet).

Just some thoughts, denise, a sister in Christ

Inmate said:

I listen to some prophets that suggest there are 3 different levels in Heaven, Because Some Christians are saved by grace but have not become completely Holy in the eyes of God.

1st level - Lazy Christians go there who dont do any work for God, But kept his morals and their faith. remained saved but did no work (Saved by Grace)

2nd level - Christians who did some work for God, but still were not Holy enough for the 3rd level. God's throne is in the 3rd Heaven, He is HOLY, so we must be Holy in order to see him (Hence Jesus on the sermon on the mount saying be Holy, For Your Father in Heaven is Holy)

3rd Level - Christians who Are Holy and obedient to God can go there. This is for Pure Christians who spent their lives being led by the Holy spirit to the best of their ability. Really striving to become Holy, Setting themselves apart from the world Completely.

Do you believe this? and I believe there might be a bible verse about Christians who were saved but have no rewards

Click to expand...

There is a small amount of truth to that but not necessarily described as different levels of heaven

Rather it is described as different levels of rewards

Those who have done much are rewarded much , those who have done little receive small rewards

Same as Hell .... those who are completely wicked are punished more than the rest.

It is apparent that both those conditions are for eternity.

Just to clarify ... it is belief in our savior that gets us to heaven ... not the good works we have done .... the rewards are simply bonuses within a wonderful setting.

Inmate said:

I listen to some prophets that suggest there are 3 different levels in Heaven, Because Some Christians are saved by grace but have not become completely Holy in the eyes of God.


Do you believe this? and I believe there might be a bible verse about Christians who were saved but have no rewards

Click to expand...

I have heard the three levels described as Rockytopva does above - sky, universe, spiritual realm.
I really like Veterans explanation of the three time periods. I had not heard of that before.

I think the Scripture reference you are referring to is 1 Cor 3:11-15 "For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now, if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw - each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." (ESV)

7angels said:

you could be right. the Word does not specify.

God bless

Click to expand...

How about going to the Bible for an explanation? After all, the Word of God DOES say so and it says so very specifically.

Let's start with a direct quote of St. Paul.

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven."
- 2 Corinthians 12:2a

According to several specific references in the Bible there are 3 heavens. The quote above is only one such reference.
The Bible even provides a design or template for the layout of the three heavens, what goes on in each and how they relate to one another.

Begin with the old testament account of the design of the tabernacle of Moses. The design was given by God to Moses. Moses in turn coordinated its construction with various artisans and craftsmen. The tabernacle had three basic areas.

3. The Holy of Holies - the inner section (the Ark of the Covenant was housed here)
2. The Holy Place (contains 7 branched lamp stand, table for showbread, and altars for incense and sacrifice)
1. The outside world

Time and space prohibit a lengthy description, purpose and meaning of each section but it is sufficient to state here that the design is the equivalent of the layout of the three heavens. The great temple in Jerusalem was constructed keeping this same design in mind.

The world outside the tabernacle/temple is where all humanity resides. The physical world as we know it is the first heaven.

Inside the first curtain/wall layer is the second heaven where worship of God takes place in the form of burning incense and sacrifice. The people of God had access to the Holy Place. Gentiles did not.

The inner layer, also curtained, is the Holy of Holies where it is suggested that only God lives (the third heaven).
God could only be approached by the High Priest and then only once per year. No other person was allowed - on penalty of death.

The people of God never had direct access to the Holy of Holies either via the tabernacle or the temple.

Go back and have another look at the gospel account of the events in Jerusalem at the moment of Jesus' death upon the cross.
Mathew 27:51 relates an odd event inside the temple at that most conspicuous moment. The veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place was rent in two.

Spiritually and physically, the death of Jesus caused an actual opening in the physical temple that separated the people of God from direct access to God in the Holy of Holies. This is NOT a symbolic act. The death of Christ actually and physically allowed access by the people of God to God's dwelling place in the third heaven - the inner court as it were.

Note also that only the people of God were allowed to enter the Holy Place - the second heaven. The Gentiles, the non-people were still denied access. They still lived outside the temple - in the first heaven.

What does this mean to Christians?

The New Testament says that born again Christians are grafted into the true vine. By this it means that those who are born again are members of the people of God and are thus allowed direct access to the place where God lives BY MEANS OF THE SACRIFICE AND DEATH OF JESUS. In other words, God hears the prayers of the born again person because they are part of His people.

Those outside the fellowship of Christ have no access to God at all.(1) They remain restricted by means of barriers to the first heaven (earth).(2)

The Bible is very clear in stating that there are three heavens.

It even gives a template of the layout in the pattern of the tabernacle of Moses, which is also repeated in the construction of the temples of Solomon and Herod. The petitions and prayers of born again believers enter into the third heaven, the Holy of Holies, where God lives because of the blood shed by Jesus upon the cross.

​As an aside, the Qur'an states that there are 7 heavens, but gives no pattern or justification within its pages for any of them. It also states that the eternal dwelling of Muslims is in another place entirely, but that's a subject of another discussion.

Sufficient for the theme here is that the Bible clearly states and outlines that there are THREE HEAVENS with barriers between each. The barriers suggest that a separation exists between each level. Curtains and walls separate the sections in the Biblical template. Spiritual as well as physical evidence suggests this template is real.

Only Christ has broken down the barriers and only those who have accepted Him gain access thereby (through Him).

Not for nothing did Jesus say He was THE WAY (to God).

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

(1) The single exception is that God hears the prayer of repentance. Proof of this is that during Jesus' time on earth He always accepted the petition of Gentiles who came to Him in humility….were penitent. As Jesus is, so is the Father.

(2) Near death experiences and visions of the spiritual world are restricted to the first heaven. Earth as we know it is co-habited by spiritual beings as well as humans. C.S. Lewis once said humans were a sort of spiritual/physical amphibian. Proof of this is in Biblical text which testifies of the interaction between humans and spiritual entities both holy and fallen/unclean.

the first heaven
is the air you breath the birds you see in the sky of the first heaven the clouds ,, where the butterfly and bee fly,, where jets take you to Grandmas

the second heaven is the sun and moon and stars the universe which the scientists are still learning about where the space station is where rockets go.
Where the planets all are and look so small .

The third heaven is where Jesus went to prepare a room for the thief on the cross and for you and me ..

You know what? These verses provide the perfect example for the pitfalls of misguided literal interpretation. Paul is speaking from his understanding of an event that God swept him up in. Paul provided a roadmap of his experience that could be understood by his audience who already believed in three spheres of existence - Earth, which was understood to be the center of the universe, the fixed sphere of stars, and the dwelling place of God. It seems to me, that Paul was simply telling us that he was brought into the presence of God, probably within a state of deep prayer.

The problem with taking these verses as a literal blueprint of Heaven is that it misleads us into focusing on the architecture of Heaven rather than the incredibly powerful experience Paul had in direct relationship with God. Mormons have taken it even further and developed doctrine of celestial marriage around a literal reading of these verses

I agree that focusing on the "third heaven" reference misses the point of what Paul is saying.

Shalom, everyone.

This concept of ...

"1st heaven = of clouds,
2nd heaven = of stars,
3rd heaven = God's abode"

... is something one will never find in the Scriptures but was introduced to many in the last century in the center column notes of the old Scofield Reference Bible (KJV) on page 1237.

I agree with veteran. Shimown Kefa (Simon Peter) said it better than Scofield. We just never hear about it in our preachers' sermons:

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

By Peter's explanation, it would be...

1st heaven = the sky before the Flood,
2nd heaven = the present sky after the Flood and before the Fire, and
3rd heaven = the sky after the Fire.

The Hebrew word for "heaven" or the "sky" or the "skies" is "shaamaayim," spelled "shin-qamets-mem-qamets-yod-chireq-mem." (The bold-faced words are actual letters in the Hebrew alefbet; the rest are vowel pointing.) It's the word that was used in Genesis 1:1, 8, 9, 14, 15, 17, 20, 26, 28, 30; 2:1, 4 (twice), 19, 20; 6:7, 17; 7:3, 11, 19, 23; 8:2 (twice); and 9:2.

So, not only is it the word for the place from where the waters of the Flood came, but it is also where the birds fly!

And, before someone else brings it up, although it is also used of where God created the "greater light" and the "lesser light" and the "stars," notice that the word used is "LIGHTS," "ham'orot," not the actual objects that radiate or reflect that light! He didn't use the words for "sun" and "moon" on Day 4, "shemesh" and "yaareeach." Why not?

The Greek word for "heaven" is "ouranos" (its plural is "ouranoi"); it also happens to be the same Greek word for "sky":

Matthew 16:1-4
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (ouranos).
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky (ouranos) is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky (ouranos) is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (ouranos); but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
KJV

(In how many English translations of the Bible is THAT information found?)

There are a number of compound words - words with prefixes and/or suffixes - using the word "ouranos" as its root word in Greek: "ouranios," "ouranothen," "epouranios," and "mesouraneema." (I use "ee" for eta to distinguish it from "e" for epsilon.) The first means "of or belonging to ouranos"; the second means "from ouranos"; the third means "of or belonging to above ouranos"; and the fourth means "in the middle of ouranos."

When I was first studying this, I assumed I would find Greek words to back up what I had read from Scofield's notes. That's NOT what I found! The two of these words that suggest the place of "ouranos," are "epouranios" and "mesouraneema."

The word "epouranios" is translated as either "heavenly," "heavenly things," or "celestial" (in the KJV). It is found in Matthew 18:35; John 3:12; 1 Corinthians 15:40 (twice), 48 (twice), 49; Ephesians 1:3, 20; 2:6; 3:10; 6:12; Philippians 2:10; 2 Timothy 4:18; Hebrews 3:1; 6:4; 8:5; 9:23; 11:16; and Hebrews 12:22 for a total of twenty times.

The word "mesouraneema" is translated as "midst of heaven" (in the KJV) in Revelation 8:13; 14:6; and 19:17, a total of three times.

Originally, I thought, "Well, if 'mesouraneema' is in the 'middle of the heaven,' and 'epouranios' refers to 'above the heaven,' then 'ouranos' would be the first heaven, 'mesouraneema' would refer to the second heaven, and 'epouranios' would refer to the third heaven." But, 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 blows that theory, because it is in "epouranios" that one finds the sun, moon, and stars!

1 Corinthians 15:40-41
40 There are also celestial (epouranios) bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial (epouranios) is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
KJV

Furthermore, "mesouraneema" is where the birds fly!

Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (mesouraneema), Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
KJV

So, what do you do with THAT? Do birds fly where the sun, moon, and stars exist in the vacuum of space?!

I was forced to conclude that Scofield didn't know what he was talking about. Then, I discovered the way Peter described three "heavens and earths" in 2 Peter 3:3-13, and it all suddenly made sense.

The Isra'elites and all the nations around them looked up at the sky, and what did they see? During the day, they saw the sun, the clouds, and the birds of the air. At night, they saw the moon and the stars, as well. THAT'S what "heaven" is. It's the ATMOSPHERE of our planet! They saw the sun, moon, and stars ABOVE the atmosphere! The saw the birds flying THROUGH the atmosphere, in the MIDDLE of the atmosphere, above their heads, but below the clouds!

So, the "third heaven" is not a SPATIAL reference, that is, the third heaven AWAY from the earth; it's a CHRONOLOGICAL reference! It's the "third sky" in HISTORY! Not the past "first sky," or the present "second sky," but the future "third sky" around the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness!"

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Retrobyter said:

So, what do you do with THAT? Do birds fly where the sun, moon, and stars exist in the vacuum of space?!

I was forced to conclude that Scofield didn't know what he was talking about. Then, I discovered the way Peter described three "heavens and earths" in 2 Peter 3:3-13, and it all suddenly made sense.

The Isra'elites and all the nations around them looked up at the sky, and what did they see? During the day, they saw the sun, the clouds, and the birds of the air. At night, they saw the moon and the stars, as well. THAT'S what "heaven" is. It's the ATMOSPHERE of our planet! They saw the sun, moon, and stars ABOVE the atmosphere! The saw the birds flying THROUGH the atmosphere, in the MIDDLE of the atmosphere, above their heads, but below the clouds!

So, the "third heaven" is not a SPATIAL reference, that is, the third heaven AWAY from the earth; it's a CHRONOLOGICAL reference! It's the "third sky" in HISTORY! Not the past "first sky," or the present "second sky," but the future "third sky" around the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness!"

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Click to expand...

Scofield published many false paths of Biblical understanding, but he did make himself some money. That's the important thing, isn't it?

Despite the obvious patterns revealed in the OT and the words of St. Paul in the new - nobody seems to want to pay attention to the Bible.

We've got astronomical observations being passed off as heaven and we've got baseless suppositions being submitted as references to heaven, but nobody consults the BIBLE patterns of it.

When Jesus died the veil in the temple was split in two.

Was this because cheap material was being used or did it have a meaning? If it has a meaning, then what is it?

The meaning of the split veil is that access to the Holy of Holies, the very throne and presence of God is now available through the blood of Jesus Christ.

ANY supposition of the construction or design of the heavens that does not take into consideration the blood - is without value and is nonsense.

Comic books do a better job of it than some of the stuff I've read.

Take a long hard studied look at the Old Testament references to the tabernacle in the Bible, the altar, the horns of the altar and the purpose of the mercy seat. If one thinks that all that has nothing to do with New Testament Christianity, they are badly mistaken. In fact, they are living in self-delusioned illiteracy.

Then again it takes a bit of Bible study to dig up this stuff.....and its always easier to daydream and suppose one's fantasies are worth something.

Consult the Bible for truth....not just as an ammo dump to gather scripture like bullets to fire away on a bogus theory.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft....

It is neither a fairytale or most precise truth. It is a metaphor. Describing heaven in physical means must be, by necessity, metaphorical. Heaven is not a physical place, so it does not have deminsions. It cannot have "3 levels". The "third level of heaven" that Paul mentions is likely a reference to the temple which has an outer court, and inner court, and the holy of holies.

The answers given are merely opinions. The real answers are given in the scriptures.

John 14:2 "In my fathers house are many mansions."

I Corinthians 15:40-42 ""There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory."

2 Corinthians 12:2-5 "I knew a man in Christ above 14 years ago...such an one caught up unto the third heaven."

Revelation 20:12-13 "And the dead were judged out of those things which were write-in the books, according to their works.) ( It is obvious that as works vary, so also will be the rewards of glory.)

Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven."

So where is heaven? Did not Christ also say:

Matthew 5:5 "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

Does this statement of Christ imply that there must be a mighty cleansing of the earth to sanctify and purify it and it's inhabitants in order to become the abode of heaven???