SATAN NOT CAST OUT YET

Davy · Apr 11, 2026

One of the problems created by not understanding the two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is regarding the war in Heaven when Satan is cast out of the Heavenly to earth.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Some try to claim the above war in Heaven already happened back when Lucifer first fell with his rebellion against God, coveting God's Throne.

But notice that phrase in red in the Rev.12:8 verse. That means when that casting out happens, Satan's place will no more be found in Heaven. It means he will no longer be able to approach God's Throne in Heaven.

Now study this from the Book of Job...

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
KJV

Had Lucifer (i.e., Satan) already rebelled by that time of the flesh man Job? Yes, of course. And yet there Satan is, before God's Throne, accusing Job. Does that jive with the Revelation 12:8 phrase in red above that when Satan is cast out of Heaven, there will be no more place found for him in Heaven? No it does not jive.

It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

soberxp · Apr 11, 2026

The bottomless pit is ready and can be used at any time.

But in my opinion, the bottomless pit does not mean what it literally says.

It means the light can't shine into it.

Armour of God · Apr 11, 2026

Davy said:
One of the problems created by not understanding the two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is regarding the war in Heaven when Satan is cast out of the Heavenly to earth.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Some try to claim the above war in Heaven already happened back when Lucifer first fell with his rebellion against God, coveting God's Throne.

But notice that phrase in red in the Rev.12:8 verse. That means when that casting out happens, Satan's place will no more be found in Heaven. It means he will no longer be able to approach God's Throne in Heaven.

Now study this from the Book of Job...

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
KJV

Had Lucifer (i.e., Satan) already rebelled by that time of the flesh man Job? Yes, of course. And yet there Satan is, before God's Throne, accusing Job. Does that jive with the Revelation 12:8 phrase in red above that when Satan is cast out of Heaven, there will be no more place found for him in Heaven? No it does not jive.

It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

I'm not great at interpreting the book of revelation but to me that battle is still yet to take place as we see evil manifested all over the world. I hope I get to witness Michael and the good angels slaughter Satan one day

soberxp · Apr 11, 2026

Armour of God said:
I'm not great at interpreting the book of revelation but to me that battle is still yet to take place as we see evil manifested all over the world. I hope I get to witness Michael and the good angels slaughter Satan one day

The Gospel of Luke

10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Jay Ross · Apr 11, 2026

In Ezekiel 34, God promises Israel through a covenant of peace that He will remove the beastly heavenly hosts from the face of the earth for a long time when Israel repents and comes Seeking God once more.

It is my understanding that this will come after the fourth age of the existence of the nation of Israel when the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers on their children comes to its completion at the end of the fourth age of Israel's existence.

From my study of the scriptures, it is my view that Satan will be kicked out of heaven around the year 2045 AD in just under 20 years' time.

We have seen the signs associated with this time of judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth when the kings of the earth gather at a place called Armageddon which is described in Isaiah 24:21-22.

I agree with Davy's statement in this thread where he states: -

Davy said:
It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

Davy has only said that it will still happen in the future. I on the other hand understand that the future point is less than 20 years away.

Armour of God · Apr 11, 2026

soberxp said:
The Gospel of Luke

10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

These passages aren't telling us that Satan has been defeated. We still see too much evil in this world

soberxp · Apr 11, 2026

Armour of God said:
These passages aren't telling us that Satan has been defeated. We still see too much evil in this world

I once saw a picture in my mind.It is lightning that falls from the sky and falls to the ground.
The picture on the ground is a small village.

Why do you think Satan has no place in heaven There will be less evil on the earth？

Hmm. How interesting?

Davy · Apr 11, 2026

Armour of God said:
I'm not great at interpreting the book of revelation but to me that battle is still yet to take place as we see evil manifested all over the world. I hope I get to witness Michael and the good angels slaughter Satan one day

In my opinion, I see no other choice for that Revelation 12:8 meaning of the phrase I put in red. Satan and his angels are coming to OUR earthly dimension, here on earth, and in plain sight. The whole world will actually see him, as he will be the coming false-Messiah to Jerusalem.

Another Bible witness of it is this in God's parable about Lucifer...

Ezek 28:12-19
12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
KJV

Many brethren in Christ today are simply not prepared for Satan and his angel's coming to earth in OUR dimension. This also may have something to do with the seven thousand which are immediately destroyed in Jerusalem on the day when God's "two witnesses" arise with Jesus' coming immediately after, per Revelation 11:13.

LoveYeshua · Apr 11, 2026

Davy said:
One of the problems created by not understanding the two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is regarding the war in Heaven when Satan is cast out of the Heavenly to earth.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Some try to claim the above war in Heaven already happened back when Lucifer first fell with his rebellion against God, coveting God's Throne.

But notice that phrase in red in the Rev.12:8 verse. That means when that casting out happens, Satan's place will no more be found in Heaven. It means he will no longer be able to approach God's Throne in Heaven.

Now study this from the Book of Job...

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
KJV

Had Lucifer (i.e., Satan) already rebelled by that time of the flesh man Job? Yes, of course. And yet there Satan is, before God's Throne, accusing Job. Does that jive with the Revelation 12:8 phrase in red above that when Satan is cast out of Heaven, there will be no more place found for him in Heaven? No it does not jive.

It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

Yes still in the future, The Bible shows that this happens in stages, not just one single moment. So the answer is: in one sense it has already happened, and in another sense it is still to come.

First, Jesus spoke about Satan already falling:

“I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.” (Luke 10:18, ASV)

Here Jesus Christ speaks as if it has already taken place. This points to an earlier fall, when Satan rebelled against God.

We also see this in the book of Revelation:

“And there was war in heaven… and the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan…” (Revelation 12:7–9)

This shows Satan being cast out of heaven.

But here is where it becomes important.

Even after this, the Bible still shows Satan active on the earth:

“Your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Peter 5:8)

So he is already cast down from heaven in one way, but still active now.

Then there is a future casting down, more final and severe:

“And the devil… was cast into the lake of fire…” (Revelation 20:10)

That is the final end. After that, he will no longer deceive anyone.

Satan fell first because of rebellion (past)
He was cast down and defeated by Christ (shown in Jesus’ words and Revelation)
He is still active now on earth
He will be completely removed at the end

So is Satan cast out of heaven at this time?

He is not ruling in heaven. That is already finished.
But he is still allowed to act on earth for a time.

This is why the warning matters.

Because right now is the time of choice, while both truth and deception are still present.

And this is why Jesus said:

“The ruler of this world hath been judged.” (John 16:11)

Judged already… but not yet fully removed. that will be in the future were Satan will be cast in the lake of fire, a permanent death.

That is the picture given by Scripture.

Davy · Apr 11, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
Yes still in the future, The Bible shows that this happens in stages, not just one single moment. So the answer is: in one sense it has already happened, and in another sense it is still to come.

First, Jesus spoke about Satan already falling:

“I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven.” (Luke 10:18, ASV)

Here Jesus Christ speaks as if it has already taken place. This points to an earlier fall, when Satan rebelled against God.

We also see this in the book of Revelation:

“And there was war in heaven… and the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan…” (Revelation 12:7–9)

This shows Satan being cast out of heaven.

But here is where it becomes important.

Even after this, the Bible still shows Satan active on the earth:

“Your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Peter 5:8)

So he is already cast down from heaven in one way, but still active now.

Then there is a future casting down, more final and severe:

“And the devil… was cast into the lake of fire…” (Revelation 20:10)

That is the final end. After that, he will no longer deceive anyone.

Satan fell first because of rebellion (past)

He was cast down and defeated by Christ (shown in Jesus’ words and Revelation)

He is still active now on earth

He will be completely removed at the end

So is Satan cast out of heaven at this time?

He is not ruling in heaven. That is already finished.
But he is still allowed to act on earth for a time.

This is why the warning matters.

Because right now is the time of choice, while both truth and deception are still present.

And this is why Jesus said:

“The ruler of this world hath been judged.” (John 16:11)

Judged already… but not yet fully removed. that will be in the future were Satan will be cast in the lake of fire, a permanent death.

That is the picture given by Scripture.

That's a bit confusing. I don't think you understood that Revelation 12:8 last phrase.

The last phrase of Revelation 12:8 distinguishes the Revelation 12:7 war in Heaven and casting out from Lucifer's original rebellion and fall in the old world. When Satan appears in Heaven to present himself before God's Throne, and God asks him about His servant Job, that shows Satan was still allowed in Heaven, as Accuser before God's Throne. When that last phrase of Rev.12:8 happens in the future, he and his angels will no longer be allowed in the whole Heavenly dimension, period. And that's a huge... difference than when he first fell in the old world, but still allowed in Heaven before God's Throne.

Davy · Apr 11, 2026

Then in the next Revelation 12:10 verse and forward, the future casting out of Heaven of Satan and his angels is spotlighted about the end of this world...

Rev 12:10-12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Once that Rev.12:7 war in Heaven happens in our near future, that is when Satan and his angels will no more be allowed a place in Heaven, and thus cast down to earth in OUR earthly dimension.

Then the above in red will be said in Heaven.

So Satan today is still allowed in Heaven to accuse us before God's Throne, because that war in Heaven has not happened yet. That "power of His Christ" also was impossible to have happened back at Lucifer's original fall in the old world.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

That Rev.12:11 verse also is a specific end time reference. It is about the 6th SEAL saints killed for their Testimony asking God how long until He avenges their blood, and are told to wait until their brethren are also killed for that Testimony.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."
KJV

Truth7t7 · Apr 11, 2026

Davy said:
One of the problems created by not understanding the two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is regarding the war in Heaven when Satan is cast out of the Heavenly to earth.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Some try to claim the above war in Heaven already happened back when Lucifer first fell with his rebellion against God, coveting God's Throne.

But notice that phrase in red in the Rev.12:8 verse. That means when that casting out happens, Satan's place will no more be found in Heaven. It means he will no longer be able to approach God's Throne in Heaven.

Now study this from the Book of Job...

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
KJV

Had Lucifer (i.e., Satan) already rebelled by that time of the flesh man Job? Yes, of course. And yet there Satan is, before God's Throne, accusing Job. Does that jive with the Revelation 12:8 phrase in red above that when Satan is cast out of Heaven, there will be no more place found for him in Heaven? No it does not jive.

It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

Your Claim Is "False"

Jesus watched Satan being cast out of heaven "Past Tense" from his ministry on earth

The verses you quote in Revelation chapter 12 is nothing more than a "Re-Cap" of events that already have taken place

Luke 10:17-19KJV
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Satan took 1/3 of the angels from heaven to the earth at his fall, Satan through King Herod tried to devour (The Man Child/Jesus) at his birth, Jesus was caught up to God's throne at the ascension to heaven, all being events that are fulfilled "Past Tense"

Revelation 12:3-5KJV
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

ScottA · Apr 11, 2026

Davy said:
One of the problems created by not understanding the two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is regarding the war in Heaven when Satan is cast out of the Heavenly to earth.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Some try to claim the above war in Heaven already happened back when Lucifer first fell with his rebellion against God, coveting God's Throne.

But notice that phrase in red in the Rev.12:8 verse. That means when that casting out happens, Satan's place will no more be found in Heaven. It means he will no longer be able to approach God's Throne in Heaven.

Now study this from the Book of Job...

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
KJV

Had Lucifer (i.e., Satan) already rebelled by that time of the flesh man Job? Yes, of course. And yet there Satan is, before God's Throne, accusing Job. Does that jive with the Revelation 12:8 phrase in red above that when Satan is cast out of Heaven, there will be no more place found for him in Heaven? No it does not jive.

It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

Such is the thinking and logic of men. Unfortunately.

Which is to say, if one only considers all that is written with the terms of this world being the rule, then of course the times of this world seem to be the way of things, all occurring in their order. But those are not the terms of God--for He "is the same yesterday, today, and forever." And His revealing all things, "here a little, there a little" over time, doesn't mean that is when they actually occur(ed) as worldly logic would dictate. Hence the need and importance of "rightly dividing the word of truth"--between those things regarding this world, and those things of God that are not subject to the terms of this world. Which many simply find to be too difficult, and so continue in their thinking according to their own understanding. Which is simply a self-imposed limit resulting in those things of God remaining out of reach and not fully understood.

But now I have likely offended the author/claimant of the thread (again). Still, "all truth" remains untouchable and unattainable without "rightly dividing the word of truth" as I have described.

Zao is life · Apr 11, 2026

Davy said:
One of the problems created by not understanding the two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is regarding the war in Heaven when Satan is cast out of the Heavenly to earth.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Some try to claim the above war in Heaven already happened back when Lucifer first fell with his rebellion against God, coveting God's Throne.

Groan.

Hast thou considered that Job was in the earth - where Satan had been going to and fro and walking up and down - and God asked Satan if he had considered His servant Job who was in the earth - at a time when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD?

So much nonsense has been taught in the churches. The apostles would have shuddered.

1. Long after the book of Job was written, God instructed Israel to "come up" to the temple in Jerusalem to present themselves before Him three times a year - the place on the earth chosen by God.

God is in heaven, yet He is omnipresent. The Jews always understood that "heaven and earth met" on Mount Sinai, as it did once a year in the tabernacle - the tent of meeting where God met with His people (represented by the High Priest) - on the Day of Atonement.

It was the meeting place between God and the sons of God - a place where God chose to meet with His creation in His creation.

2. Job is the first character in the narrative who is introduced in the book bearing his name. Then verse 5 says,

"And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually."

It implies that there was a place in the earth that Job went to in order to present himself before the LORD and to offer sacrifices for the sins of his sons to God, on their behalf - like the high priest in the temple on behalf of the Israelites.

Immediately afterwards we are told that the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. Satan - the accuser - came among them. Then we are told that Satan bragged that he had been going to and fro in the earth, and walking up and down in it.

Job was in the earth, and God asked Satan if he had considered God's servant Job, who was in the earth.

3. Proverbs 8:22-31 tells us that the only one who was present as a witness when God laid the foundations of the earth was Christ, the Son of God, the Bright and Morning Star - the wisdom of God - which is an aspect of the Logos - which is why Solomon personified the wisdom of God in that passage.

In Job 38:4 God was asking Job if he (Job) was there when God laid the foundation of the earth, when "ALL the sons of God shouted for joy and (ALL) the morning stars sang together - but God's question was rhetorical - because Job wasn't there, neither were any humans who are called the sons of God.

4. Luke 3:38 TELLS US that the sons of Seth, the son of Adam, were "the sons of God":

In Genesis 6:2 the sons of God are not called 'nephilim'.

Genesis 6:4 tells us that the descendants of the sons of God and daughters of men unions were "mighty men which were of old, ('olam) men of renown" whom that verse calls "nephilim".

The word 'olam denotes that the men being spoken about had been around in the earth since as far back as mankind could remember - long before the days of Noah.

According to Strong's, the word nephilim [H05303] means a bully or a tyrant and is from the word naphal [H05307] which means to fall or "fallen".

And incidentally, the word Naphiysh [H05305] which was later used for the sons of Ishmael seems closely related to it. Of the sons of Ishmael God said:

"He will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.: (Genesis 16:12).

5. In the Old Testament the phrase sons of God is only used five times: Twice in Genesis 6 and three times in Job (the sons of God coming to present themselves before the LORD, and the sons of God being mentioned as "shouting for joy" when God laid the foundation of the earth).

6. Like John when he received the Revelation, Enoch stated very clearly that whatever he saw in the book of Enoch, he saw in visions. He states it in Enoch 1:2 and continues to state it throughout the book of Enoch - multiple times - saying things like

"And now, my son Methuselah, I will show you all the visions that I saw, recounting them before you." (Enoch 83:2).

In other words, Enoch was not necessarily seeing real things when he spoke of 'fallen angels' as "the sons of God" but visions that were metaphors representing real things.

Whatever all the visions of Enoch mean, and why he referred to the fallen angels he saw in visions as "the sons of God", there are reasons why both Orthodox Judaism and Christianity regard the book of Enoch as spurious, and do not include it in their Canons.

7. "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death." (Revelation 12:10-11).

Satan's weapon was turned against him and he was "cast out of heaven" to the earth by the law because the law was the only legal indictment the accuser of the brethren had to accuse the brethren with. The death and resurrection of Christ ripped that rug out from under his feet.

The text TELLS US when it happened - when Christ had been caught up to God and to His throne.

Davy · Apr 14, 2026

BRETHREN IN CHRIST JESUS:

I am continually amazed at some folks how their mind still dwells in a primitive state like the wild primitive peoples of old, superstitious and fearing anything they do not understand. It is that kind of primordial primitive mind state that many of the children of Israel remained in to this day, treating God as something like stone, metal, or wood, of which old Israel used in order to make their idols. Many of the children of Israel to this day have never left that primitive mind state of thinking all there is has to be of this material fleshy world.

In John 3 Lord Jesus gives us a prime example of that primitive Jewish state of mind regarding being "born again". When Lord Jesus was pointing to the TWO different dimensions of existence in God's creation, the Pharisee Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, could not understand about the dimension of Spirit which Jesus pointed to.

John 3:9-12
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto Him, "How can these things be?"

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"
KJV

One of the old primitive traditions of the Jews on God creating the man Adam is that Adam's soul is of this material world, and dies with the flesh body.

Is that what God's Word shows here?

Jesus speaking...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body (flesh), but are not able to kill the soul (psuche): but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul (psuche) and body (spirit body) in hell (geheena).
KJV

Only God can destroy our spirit with soul. Man cannot. And the way God will destroy the spirit body and soul of the wicked is by casting it into the future "lake of fire", which is what the word geheena in the manuscripts is symbolic for. That casting into the future "lake of fire" is what is called the "second death".

That reveals the REALITY that this material existence here on earth (and in the whole universe) is NOT the ONLY dimension of existence.

So truly like Lord Jesus said to Nicodemus; if He told the blinded Jews of earthly things and they didn't believe Him, then how could they understand if He told them about Heavenly things? It is still... like that today, with many Jews.

William Barton · Apr 17, 2026

Davy said:
One of the problems created by not understanding the two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word is regarding the war in Heaven when Satan is cast out of the Heavenly to earth.

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Some try to claim the above war in Heaven already happened back when Lucifer first fell with his rebellion against God, coveting God's Throne.

But notice that phrase in red in the Rev.12:8 verse. That means when that casting out happens, Satan's place will no more be found in Heaven. It means he will no longer be able to approach God's Throne in Heaven.

Now study this from the Book of Job...

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
KJV

Had Lucifer (i.e., Satan) already rebelled by that time of the flesh man Job? Yes, of course. And yet there Satan is, before God's Throne, accusing Job. Does that jive with the Revelation 12:8 phrase in red above that when Satan is cast out of Heaven, there will be no more place found for him in Heaven? No it does not jive.

It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

"How you are fallen from Heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn. How you are cut *down to the ground,* you who laid the nations low" (Isaiah 1:12)

Satan and his angels dwell a!omg us (already cast down):

"Be alert, be watchful, your adversary the Devil *prowls around* like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." (2Peter 5:8)

Satan makes occasional visits to heaven (Job 1:6).

Douggg · Apr 17, 2026

Davy said:
It means the Revelation 12:7-8 casting out is still in the FUTURE.

Revelation 12:7-8 is talking about a future war to take place in the second heaven - i.e. the cosmos, where the stars are.

Satan and his angels will be cast down to earth, no longer allowed to roam the second heaven.

First heaven is the earth's atmosphere.
Second heaven is the cosmos, where the stars are.
Third heaven is where God's throne is.

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 17, 2026

Douggg said:
Revelation 12:7-8 is talking about a future war to take place in the second heaven - i.e. the cosmos, where the stars are.

Satan and his angels will be cast down to earth, no longer allowed to roam the second heaven.

First heaven is the earth's atmosphere.
Second heaven is the cosmos, where the stars are.
Third heaven is where God's throne is.

This is complete nonsense. I don't know how you can think anyone could possibly take this seriously.

Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

The place that Satan is cast out of is the same place where he accused believers before God day and night. That is the third heaven, which is where God dwells. Not the second heaven. He never accused anyone before God in the second heaven.

Also, Paul indicated that no one can make any charge/accusation against God's chosen/elect anymore, and that includes Satan. That means Satan was already cast out of heaven (the third heaven) long ago.

Romans 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Davy · Apr 18, 2026

Douggg said:
Revelation 12:7-8 is talking about a future war to take place in the second heaven - i.e. the cosmos, where the stars are.

No, the stars are part of our 'earthly' dimension, not the Heavenly dimension where God and the angels are.

What you have believed is a 'fleshy' doctrine. If true it would mean God Himself is made up of earthly material matter when Apostle John said "God is a Spirit" in John 4.

Your belief if true would also mean God is an Alien being residing within the known universe.

Douggg · Apr 18, 2026

Davy said:
No, the stars are part of our 'earthly' dimension

Davy, I did not say anything about "dimension?.

The cosmos, the second heaven, where all the stars are, has an end to it - and there the third heaven begins.

God is so far above anyone in creation to comprehend.

------------------------------------------------------

Jesus is God, God coming forth from Himself, to create everything, and be perceptible by creation.

John speaking about Jesus in John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

----------------------------------------------------

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

SATAN NOT CAST OUT YET

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