Reason for The Crusades explained

Wick Stick said:

That's historically inaccurate. The Crusades did NOT stop Muslim expansion into Europe.

That was done by the rulers of Hungary and Romania on the Eastern border, and by the Franks in Gaul (Spain).

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Your right, ultimately the Crusades didn't actually stop the Muslim invasion into Europe. They defended it and slowed it down.

But stopping the Muslim expansion into Europe was definitely part of the Crusade objective.

In the east...

In the west...


It was an objective of Muslim states to invade Europe from before the crusade wars. The Iberian peninsula was almost fully taken by mid 8th century

It was part of the Crusade objective to halt the Muslim invasion into Europe on the eastern and western fronts.

These wars did continue on after the Crusades. The Christian kingdoms of Iberia finished reclaiming the peninsula by the end of the 15th century. And the Byzantine empire fell to the Ottomans in the mid 15th century and it was the Christian kingdoms in the east which ultimately stopped further expansion into Europe.

Ultimately without the Crusade intervention, most of Europe would of been taken by Islam

Bladerunner said:

In one afternoon, Pope Innocent the third killed more Christians than the Roman Army in over 1,000 year did. Now who has blood on their hands

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I haven’t asked @Armour of God if he thinks the pope(s) who are connected with the Crusades acted “so you can be here, living in good times, peacefully, not fighting any war, not under any oppressed governments, not under Islamic regimes, practicing your religion, safely displaying your beliefs” but maybe he does.

If he does, he has a lot more in common with the pope(s) than I do. They would have taken my life and freedom from me, not defended it.

Bladerunner said:

In one afternoon, Pope Innocent the third killed more Christians than the Roman Army in over 1,000 year did. Now who has blood on their hands

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Yes, Christian kingdoms fought each other.

I'm saying that they defended Europe from Muslim invasion. Most of Europe would of fell to Islam otherwise

Armour of God said:

Yes, Christian kingdoms fought each other.

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Christians killing Christians. That’s not something Jesus of Nazareth would be pleased with his followers doing. It’s certainly not what he instructed his followers to do.

Armour of God said:

I'm saying that they defended Europe from Muslim invasion. Most of Europe would of fell to Islam otherwise

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Matthias said:

The Crusaders didn’t kill for me, nor did they die for me.

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They did for me. My parents country would be an Islamic state otherwise

Armour of God said:

They did for me.

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Are you Roman Catholic?

Armour of God said:

My parents country would be an Islamic state otherwise

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Would no one living in your parents’ country follow Jesus if it was an Islamic state?

Matthias said:

Are you Roman Catholic?

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My parents are

Matthias said:

Would no one living in your parents’ country follow Jesus if it was an Islamic state?

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They were killing everyone that weren't Muslim when they were their. It would be like any other Muslim country these days, very few Christians if any.

It's different for you.
Your not European and your not from a Christian background so you don't care. Maybe y'all would have been ok. But I doubt it cos the Muslims hated the Jews and persecuted them more than the Christians did

@Matthias

If it makes you feel any better the Crusades weren't very successful.

The main objective was to win back the holy land. That failed. The Muslims won

The next objective was to stop the spread of Islam into Europe. They did that in the east but the Byzantine empire eventually fell to the Muslims after the Crusade wars anyway.

They were successful in the west in helping the Christian kingdoms reclaim the Iberian peninsula from the Muslims but the reconquista was only completed after the Crusades as well.

If the Crusades and Christian kingdoms just sat idle or fled their lands then Islam would of most likely conqured all of Europe and slaughtered all the Christians. At the very least they would of conquered the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern orthodox Church leaving Christianity to be just a footnote in history or a small minority.

Wick Stick said:

That's historically inaccurate. The Crusades did NOT stop Muslim expansion into Europe.

That was done by the rulers of Hungary and Romania on the Eastern border, and by the Franks in Gaul (Spain).

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Bladerunner said:

In one afternoon, Pope Innocent the third killed more Christians than the Roman Army in over 1,000 year did. Now who has blood on their hands

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The things one reads on the internet.

It goes to show battles go on, long after the contestants stop fighting. Other's still debate the War of Northern Aggression. These days, it seems only wars against Hitler are socially acceptable as being righteous.

OTOH, of course the Crusades stopped Muslim expansion into Europe. They were too busy defending to be going on offense. OTOH, the Muslims have Islamized Europe this century, not by military conquest but birth rate and immigration.

@Bladerunner, please start another thread on how Pope Innocent the third killed more Christians than the Roman Army in over 1,000 year did. That is a fascinating historical assertion. I'd love to delve into it further without hijacking this thread.

amigo de christo said:

yeah rather save your thanks FOR GOD and FOR HIS CHRIST , HIS plan of salvation .
The popes and thier so called holy wars was for POWER and control .
blind leading the blind .
Now our duty IS to preach JESUS , THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM . if one wont hear ,
DO shake the dust off your feet as a testmony against them , FOR IT WILL BE FAR worse for that soul than ever it was for sodom .
But DONT TRY and UNIFY with them . NOR call for crusades against them .
Time we bible up and follow JESUS and not men .

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@amigo de christo

Armour of God said:

If it makes you feel any better the Crusades weren't very successful.

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Funny to see the over-spiritualized pacifists shift their attack on doing what is necessary regarding the use of force. 1st, they falsely say it goes against Christian principles. Now after 73 pages they say using violence does not achieve the ends sought. The rationale is analogous to give up on hygiene as one observes they just get dirty again.

So far, the Battle of Good and Evil is ongoing. Successes are short lived. Always another battle. The final battle is foretold in Revelation.

amigo de christo said:

Exactly . JESUS did not come to bring peace on earth , nor did he promise us WE would have PEACE in this world .
But rather triblations . OUR PEACE IS IN HIM , not this world . many saints have bled for JESUS throughout all times .
THEY preached JESUS and many even were put into prison and some killed for doing so .
THEIR MISSION was NOT a one world relgioin or a conquering by the sword .
THEY simply preached JESUS and those who heard amen and those who rejected THEY SHOOK the DUST OFF ag ainst them
and moved onwards . Notice JESUS did say To those who do reject
YOU shake the dust off as a testimony agianst them . THAT On JUDG MENT day it would b e worse for them
than ever it was for sodom .
BUT HE did not say OH if they dont hear , CRUSDADES , KILL THEM , conquer them . NO . vengeance belongs to GOD not man .

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@amigo de christo

Armour of God said:

@Matthias

If it makes you feel any better the Crusades weren't very successful.

The main objective was to win back the holy land. That failed. The Muslims won

The next objective was to stop the spread of Islam into Europe. They did that in the east but the Byzantine empire eventually fell to the Muslims after the Crusade wars anyway.

They were successful in the west in helping the Christian kingdoms reclaim the Iberian peninsula from the Muslims but the reconquista was only completed after the Crusades as well.

If the Crusades and Christian kingdoms just sat idle or fled their lands then Islam would of most likely conqured all of Europe and slaughtered all the Christians. At the very least they would of conquered the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern orthodox Church leaving Christianity to be just a footnote in history or a small minority.

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At that time, those who invaded Europe did not represent true Muslims, nor did they represent the teachings of the Quran.
That's just human greed and ambition.

So stop trying use the Islam into Europe.....

Since the assassination of his descendants after the death of Muhammad, there have been no true Muslims left.

soberxp said:

At that time, those who invaded Europe did not represent true Muslims, nor did they represent the teachings of the Quran.
That's just human greed and ambition.

So stop trying use the Islam into Europe.....

Since the assassination of his descendants after the death of Muhammad, there have been no true Muslims left.

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What are you talking about.
Anyone who claims to be Muslim is a Muslim.
Those who invaded Europe in the middle ages were Muslims. The Quaran tells them to kill anyone that isn't Muslim.

Armour of God said:

The Quaran tells them to kill anyone that isn't Muslim.

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No, the book never said anything about it.
It's crazy kids who really Can't read understand the word.

Use the Bible word, it's blind leading the blind.....

soberxp said:

No, the book never said anything about it.
It's crazy kids who really Can't read understand the word.

Use the Bible word, it's blind leading the blind.....

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The Quaran does tell them to kill non Muslims.
It tells them to kill people who won't convert to Islam.
It also says to kill people who leave Islam.
It also encourages them to wage war against people who are not Muslims.

Armour of God said:

The Quaran does tell them to kill non Muslims.
It tells them to kill people who won't convert to Islam.
It also says to kill people who leave Islam.
It also encourages them to wage war against people who are not Muslims.

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Who told you all of this nonsense.
I have said the Quaran didn't say anything about it.
Just as the Bible never say two Gospels, but some folks always disagree with it.

soberxp said:

At that time, those who invaded Europe did not represent true Muslims, nor did they represent the teachings of the Quran.
That's just human greed and ambition.

So stop trying use the Islam into Europe.....

Since the assassination of his descendants after the death of Muhammad, there have been no true Muslims left.

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True islam is of anti christ . lets not defend it .
however the crusades were dead wrong .
The church is supposed to preach the gospel .
Now if one does not receive it then we shake the dust off our feet as move on . NO finding common ground .
We also do not rage war against the false religoins . We simply preach JESUS
and all sound doctrine . And we do and would correct the church in error .

Armour of God said:

My parents are

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Then a case could be made that the Crusaders killed and died for them.

Armour of God said:

They were killing everyone that weren't Muslim when they were their. It would be like any other Muslim country these days, very few Christians if any.

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Muslims around the world are converting to Christianity. @Debp has some threads discussing it.

Armour of God said:

It's different for you.
Your not European …

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My family origin is European. They were Protestants and famous in England for a number of reasons, including a rebellion against Queen Mary. (You can read about it if you’re interested. See Wyatt’s Rebellion. What was Wyatt's Rebellion? | All About History) My ancestor led the rebellion, was imprisoned in the Tower of London, and executed. The family estate (Allington Castle) was confiscated. I’m an American because my family was impoverished and eventually forced to leave the country.

Armour of God said:

….your not from a Christian background so you don't care.

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I was raised Southern Baptist. I’m married to a woman for 45 years now who was raised Roman Catholic. We were married in the Roman Catholic Church. Your lack of information about me, as well as your misunderstanding of what little information you have about me, has led you to form a false image of me.

Armour of God said:

Maybe y'all would have been ok. But I doubt it cos the Muslims hated the Jews and persecuted them more than the Christians did

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I’m a Jewish monotheist now, not a Jew; a primitive Christian. Among other things, I’m a retired pastor. I doubt the story will interest you but I’ve shared on this forum about private meeting I had some years ago with an Imam at a mosque in Atlanta and being offered refuge there when the time comes. (I have no plans to ever do so.)

Debp said:

I had always heard about The Crusades in a negative way. But in this video, Bob from Speaker's Corner in London, explains why The Crusades started. They were in response to centuries of Islamic invasion of many Christian countries.

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We need to discern/distinguish/divide and separate between church and government. Islam is a form of theocracy.....how is that working out? The Catholic religion likewise loves to wield political power over governments and persecute true believers bringing the true gospel when it can get away with it. True Christianity is not a religion among other religions.........it is a Way, and that way does not use carnal weapons, but spiritual.....it is not wrestling against flesh and blood but against ungodly spiritual forces.

Wielding carnal weapons is not a good witness for those who are claiming Christ. Government and church have two completely different jobs in this world under heaven. The church's ONLY mandate from the Lord is to go and make disciples through the gospel, not through forced conversions and killing of unbelievers (God forbid!). The mandate of government is according to Romans 13..........but that is NOT the church's job.

Times of trouble are times of temptation. Those big name evangelical "ministers" who claim Christ and are putting their collective weight behind a particular political party and politician are in serious error....that is not the Way of Christ....it is the way of a religion.

The ways of this world are mixed with both good and evil. See, like how the crusades were a mixture of both good and evil. Likewise the different political parties and governments are also a mixture of good and evil Everything to do with this world is a mixture of both good and evil because it is of the flesh......fruit of the Tree we are not to partake of. God Himself is on the throne overseeing the kingdoms of this world.........we are not God, we are only His servants, and the only job He gave us as His servants is to advance the kingdom of God, not be mired in miry clay of the kingdoms of this world. The gospel is at odds with the kingdoms of this world, in an inadvertent spiritual way, and that is why the kingdoms of this world always persecute it. If we truly belong to the kingdom of God and obeying/following Christ, we will not join forces with the kingdoms of the world, but come out from among them and be separate.