Ye are my Witnesses

Boaz · Feb 9, 2014

Revelation 11:3-4
King James Version (KJV)

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

The two witnesses are among the characters of Scripture that is a mystery . They prophesy before the world for three and a half years (1,260 days) (11:3). During this time, they can strike the earth with whatever plague they desire, and cannot be harmed by their enemies (11:5-6). Ultimately, they are killed by the beast (11:7) but they rise to life in three and a half days (11:11). How are we to understand the two witnesses and the unusual happenings surrounding their lives?

There are three primary viewpoints on the identity of the two witnesses in (1) Moses and Elias and , (2) Enoch and Elijah, (3) two unknown believers whom God calls to be His witnesses in the end times.

The question is who really are they and what is there mission ?

Madad21 · Feb 9, 2014

I found this article incredibly interesting, well worth looking at.
You may have already heard of it http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=2-Witnesses-in-Revelation

Boaz · Feb 9, 2014

Madad21 said:
I found this article incredibly interesting, well worth looking at.
You may have already heard of it http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=2-Witnesses-in-Revelation

Is that what you believe I canot comprehen it

Purity · Feb 9, 2014

Revelation 11:3-4
King James Version (KJV)

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

The two witnesses are among the characters of Scripture that is a mystery . They prophesy before the world for three and a half years (1,260 days) (11:3). During this time, they can strike the earth with whatever plague they desire, and cannot be harmed by their enemies (11:5-6). Ultimately, they are killed by the beast (11:7) but they rise to life in three and a half days (11:11). How are we to understand the two witnesses and the unusual happenings surrounding their lives?

There are three primary viewpoints on the identity of the two witnesses in (1) Moses and Elias and , (2) Enoch and Elijah, (3) two unknown believers whom God calls to be His witnesses in the end times.

The question is who really are they and what is there mission ?

Section 1 — Revelation Chapters 1—5

a. Christ in the midst of the Ecclesias (Ch. 1).
b. Christ's messages to the Ecclesias (Chs. 2,3).
c. Christ's purpose with the Ecclesias (Chs. 4,5).

Section 2 - Revelation Chapters 6-11

1. The "Christianising" of the Roman Empire (Chs 6,7).
2. The break-up of the Roman Empire (Chs 8,9).
3. The protest against tyranny leading to the development of Communism
(Ch. 11).

We know the Roman Empire was first "Christianised," then broken up into independent nations answering to the toes of the Image of Daniel 2, but held together by the Holy Roman Empire which replaced Pagan Rome. Coetaneous with that system, there were manifested protesting communities, both religious and political (the two witnesses of Revelation 11, the political section of which rose to power in the French Revolution, and developed modern Communism.

Today, the influence of such is manifested in every form of government upon earth, and is playing an important part in the development of the crisis of the last days. It has "ascended into heaven" (political authority — Rev. 11:13), and the "remnant are affrighted."

Section 3 - Revelation Chapters 12-19

a. The development and destruction of the Holy Roman Empire
(Chs 12, 13, 14).
b. The Divine judgment on the latter day political system (Chs 15, 16).
c. Divine judgment on the latter day religious system (Chs 17, 18, 19).

Section 4 - Revelation Chapters 20-22
a. Conquest of sin and death (Ch. 20).
b. The Manifestation of the Bride (Ch. 21).
c. The final appeal of Christ to the Ecclesias (Ch. 22).

The second half of the Apocalypse follows the first half in orderly fashion. The Holy Roman Empire replaced the former Empire, and will be destroyed. The "two witnesses" developed into political power (Rev 16), and though used to punish "the beast," likewise will be destroyed. The final chapters also follow in proper sequence.

Purity

Arnie Manitoba · Feb 10, 2014

Madad21 said:
I found this article incredibly interesting, well worth looking at.
You may have already heard of it http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=2-Witnesses-in-Revelation

So who are the two witnesses ??

I read and read that article and never did find the place where he identified them

guysmith · Feb 10, 2014

Shalom Boaz,

You stated: The question is who really are they...

My response: Who they are is irrelevant.

You stated: ...and what is there mission ?

My response: The two witnesses, prior to the start of the GT, will be calling the “remnant” to the place-of-refuge.

At the first resurrection there will be two types of believers:

The dead in Christ
Those that will be alive at His advent.

So, within the prophetic scriptures are instructions to prepare to:

Be martyred (refusing to take the mark).
Survive to the advent of Christ.

Within the tale of the two witnesses is survival information providing:

The duration of the second half of the tribulation (1265 days)
1260 days they testify.
3 ½ days they lie dead
1 day of the Lord (they are part of the first resurrection)

[*]They wear the clothes the survivors will need to wear during the GT (sackcloth/Denim)
[*]The location of the place-of-refuge (where our Lord was crucified)

This is the significance of the story of the two witnesses.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Boaz · Feb 10, 2014

Arnie Manitoba said:
So who are the two witnesses ??

I read and read that article and never did find the place where he identified them

From link quoted below there were indentified

These prophetic passages from Isaiah plainly state that Israel will witness to the fact that there is no other God like YHVH the Father. This testimony will be a necessary confirmation of the identity of the one true God (John 17:3) during the time the Antichrist is reigning and proclaiming himself to be god (II The. 2:4). But how can Israel, the chosen people of God, be the TWO witnesses referred to in Revelation?

Christians who haven't studied the Tanakh (Old Testament) in depth might be surprised to learn that Israel split into two parts after the reign of King Solomon. This split is recorded in I Kings 12 and II Chronicles 10. The division resulted in the southern kingdom of Judea (the "House of Judah") and the northern kingdom of Samaria (the "House of Israel") in the Holy Land.

The House of Judah was composed of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin (I Kings 12:21; II Chr. 11:12). The tribe of Levi also eventually sided with the House of Judah, having been rejected as priests by the ruler of the House of Israel (II Chr. 11:13-14).

Therefore, we see from the Scriptures that Israel did indeed become "two." They can legitimately be recognized as two different, but related, entities. But is there any other biblical evidence which connects the two houses of Israel with the two witnesses of Revelation 11?
Indeed there is! Revelation 11:4 gives us the next two vital clues:
(John 6:44, 65) are primarily physical Israelites, both from the House of Judah (the cultivated olive tree) and the House of Israel (the wild olive tree). These two olive trees are the two witnesses of Revelation 11.

Eric E Stahl · Feb 10, 2014

Malachi 4:5-6
5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Purity · Feb 10, 2014

Boaz said:
(John 6:44, 65) are primarily physical Israelites, both from the House of Judah (the cultivated olive tree) and the House of Israel (the wild olive tree). These two olive trees are the two witnesses of Revelation 11.

Incorrect.

John describes the warfare of two witnesses, which results in their death and resurrection.

These two witnesses dramatise the long struggle against political and religious tyranny that has gone on throughout the ages, and particularly during the epochs of time occupied by the sounding of the first six trumpets. Hence the placing of the prophecy (Rev 11) at this point in the Apocalypse.

This has nothing to do with Israelites and everything to do with the development of Christendom throughout the World.

Purity

Arnie Manitoba · Feb 10, 2014

I dont believe you Boaz , sorry , you constructed that from a bunch of completely unrelated scriptures. That does not work for me.

Madad21 · Feb 10, 2014

Boaz said:
Is that what you believe I canot comprehen it

All I said was it was interesting

Purity · Feb 11, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
Malachi 4:5-6
5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Strange connection with the witnesses - like David & Moses before him, Elijah is dead and buried...this passage is totally unrelated to Rev 11.

Quantrill · Feb 11, 2014

Purity said:
Strange connection with the witnesses - like David & Moses before him, Elijah is dead and buried...this passage is totally unrelated to Rev 11.

What Bible are you reading? Where do you get that Elijah is dead and buried?

Quantrill

Purity · Feb 11, 2014

Quantrill said:
What Bible are you reading? Where do you get that Elijah is dead and buried?

Quantrill

Where else could he be

Quantrill · Feb 12, 2014

Purity

I asked where did you get that Elijah is dead and buried. All you have to say is 'where else could he be"?

So, this is just your opinion, not the teaching of Scripture? Because Scripture says otherwise.

Quantrill

Retrobyter · Feb 12, 2014

Shalom, Purity.

Purity said:
Strange connection with the witnesses - like David & Moses before him, Elijah is dead and buried...this passage is totally unrelated to Rev 11.

Whereas I may not agree with Eric, Elijah was "dead and buried" when John the Baptist came in the "spirit of Elijah," too! A measure of caution needs to be implemented when trying to answer another.

Purity · Feb 12, 2014

Quantrill said:
Purity

I asked where did you get that Elijah is dead and buried. All you have to say is 'where else could he be"?

So, this is just your opinion, not the teaching of Scripture? Because Scripture says otherwise.

Quantrill

Well, put forth your scripture and teach Quantrill - if you can prove Elijah is somewhere else, I am keen to hear your evidence.

I and the Scripture states that all the faithful men and woman are dead and buried.

And all these (David, Elijah etc), though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Cmp Acts 2:29

If David is dead and buried as the Words teaches where is Elijah?

Supposed immortality of the soul, you say? In heaven you say? As far as David is concerned "he" is dead (Acts 13:36; see 2 Sam. 7:12)!

"and his sepulchre is with us unto this day" The evidence was nearby in the royal tombs, that the Psalm quoted by Peter did not refer to David (Acts 2:27), and so the ellipsis must be supplied: "and so David was not speaking of himself." According to Josephus David's sepulchre then existed (Ant. 7:15:3; 13:8:4; 16:7:1), but it is no longer to be found.

Now it is true, unlike David, we do not know the location of where Elijah was buried "this you can prove" but certainly he is dead and buried to this day.

Blessing
Purity

Boaz · Feb 12, 2014

Purity said:
Incorrect.

John describes the warfare of two witnesses, which results in their death and resurrection.

These two witnesses dramatise the long struggle against political and religious tyranny that has gone on throughout the ages, and particularly during the epochs of time occupied by the sounding of the first six trumpets. Hence the placing of the prophecy (Rev 11) at this point in the Apocalypse.

This has nothing to do with Israelites and everything to do with the development of Christendom throughout the World.

Purity

I never said that it was right I was responding to a post that sted the link provided in post 5 that stated that the post 2 statethey did not indendify the witnesses

Arnie Manitoba said:
I dont believe you Boaz , sorry , you constructed that from a bunch of completely unrelated scriptures. That does not work for me.

I dont understand want you mean

Purity · Feb 12, 2014

Boaz said:
I never said that it was right I was responding to a post that sted the link provided in post 5 that stated that the post 2 statethey did not indendify the witnesses

Boaz
I must have misunderstood - my apologies.
Purity

BTW - I like your name...a lot to live up to in that name!

Quantrill · Feb 13, 2014

Purity said:
Well, put forth your scripture and teach Quantrill - if you can prove Elijah is somewhere else, I am keen to hear your evidence.

I and the Scripture states that all the faithful men and woman are dead and buried.

And all these (David, Elijah etc), though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Cmp Acts 2:29

If David is dead and buried as the Words teaches where is Elijah?

Supposed immortality of the soul, you say? In heaven you say? As far as David is concerned "he" is dead (Acts 13:36; see 2 Sam. 7:12)!

"and his sepulchre is with us unto this day" The evidence was nearby in the royal tombs, that the Psalm quoted by Peter did not refer to David (Acts 2:27), and so the ellipsis must be supplied: "and so David was not speaking of himself." According to Josephus David's sepulchre then existed (Ant. 7:15:3; 13:8:4; 16:7:1), but it is no longer to be found.

Now it is true, unlike David, we do not know the location of where Elijah was buried "this you can prove" but certainly he is dead and buried to this day.

Blessing
Purity

If Heb. 11:39 is what you are quoting, I don't see where it is saying Elijah died. That those mentioned did not recieve the promises, yes. Plus, Elijah is not mentioned in this group.

2Kings 2:11 " And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. "

Quantrill

Ye are my Witnesses

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