Many Say ‘Just Believe’… But What Did Jesus Actually Teach?

mailmandan said:

You have shown me no such thing. I have shown you that Spirit baptism (1 Corinthians 12:13) makes us members of Christ and His church (body). Matthew 3:11 - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Two separate baptisms, yet there is only one baptism that makes us members of the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

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mailmandan said:

You are the master of confusing 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. What I shared with you in post #199 was spot on but sadly, you just don't have ears to hear. Again, God accepts those who fear Him and work righteousness from a right principle, and to a right end, yet their fear of Him and working righteousness are not the origin of their acceptance; (Titus 3:5) but are to be considered as 'descriptive' of the persons, who are accepted by Him in Christ. (1 John 3:7-10) Those who have been justified by faith now enter sanctification and perseverance, along with fearing God and working righteousness/does what it right confirms authentic faith.

Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:5-9) results in the believer being made alive together with Christ and the believer is created in Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10) which follow conversion as the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. Performing works of righteousness afterwards confirms authentic faith. Performing no works confirms a dead faith. (James 2:14-24)

In regard to Jude 1:21, keep yourselves in the love of God is supplemented with three participles of means in the original, which answers the question, "How does one keep himself in the love of God?" By building yourselves up in your most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Spirit; and by looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. The word "keep" means to attend to carefully, take care of, guard. It does not mean keep yourself saved, as you imply. Jude starts off in verse 1 with - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: In Psalm 37:28, we read - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

In regard to Matthew 7:14, the narrow road that leads to life is faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. It does not get any narrower than that.

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mailmandan said:

You are the master of confusing 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. What I shared with you in post #199 was spot on but sadly, you just don't have ears to hear. Again, God accepts those who fear Him and work righteousness from a right principle, and to a right end, yet their fear of Him and working righteousness are not the origin of their acceptance; (Titus 3:5) but are to be considered as 'descriptive' of the persons, who are accepted by Him in Christ. (1 John 3:7-10) Those who have been justified by faith now enter sanctification and perseverance, along with fearing God and working righteousness/does what it right confirms authentic faith.

Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:5-9) results in the believer being made alive together with Christ and the believer is created in Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10) which follow conversion as the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. Performing works of righteousness afterwards confirms authentic faith. Performing no works confirms a dead faith. (James 2:14-24)

In regard to Jude 1:21, keep yourselves in the love of God is supplemented with three participles of means in the original, which answers the question, "How does one keep himself in the love of God?" By building yourselves up in your most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Spirit; and by looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. The word "keep" means to attend to carefully, take care of, guard. It does not mean keep yourself saved, as you imply. Jude starts off in verse 1 with - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: In Psalm 37:28, we read - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

In regard to Matthew 7:14, the narrow road that leads to life is faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. It does not get any narrower than that.

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mailmandan said:

You are the master of confusing 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. What I shared with you in post #199 was spot on but sadly, you just don't have ears to hear. Again, God accepts those who fear Him and work righteousness from a right principle, and to a right end, yet their fear of Him and working righteousness are not the origin of their acceptance; (Titus 3:5) but are to be considered as 'descriptive' of the persons, who are accepted by Him in Christ. (1 John 3:7-10) Those who have been justified by faith now enter sanctification and perseverance, along with fearing God and working righteousness/does what it right confirms authentic faith.

Faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:5-9) results in the believer being made alive together with Christ and the believer is created in Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10) which follow conversion as the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. Performing works of righteousness afterwards confirms authentic faith. Performing no works confirms a dead faith. (James 2:14-24)

In regard to Jude 1:21, keep yourselves in the love of God is supplemented with three participles of means in the original, which answers the question, "How does one keep himself in the love of God?" By building yourselves up in your most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Spirit; and by looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. The word "keep" means to attend to carefully, take care of, guard. It does not mean keep yourself saved, as you imply. Jude starts off in verse 1 with - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: In Psalm 37:28, we read - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

In regard to Matthew 7:14, the narrow road that leads to life is faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. It does not get any narrower than that.

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mailmandan said:

Yes, whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. (Acts 10:43) These Gentiles in Acts 10 believed, received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit along with the spiritual gift of tongues (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved before water baptism. (Acts 10:47) How can you say you believe in Him when you also believe in your baptism? Whatever we are believing in for salvation, that is what we are trusting in for salvation. To trust in baptism for salvation is to say that Jesus is not enough, and more is required.

It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe and are saved, but if someone is on their death bed and cannot get baptized before death, they are still saved because they BELIEVED (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Anyone professing to believe in Jesus for salvation and yet refusing to be water baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I personally could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.

Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all works must be. Baptism is for believers, and believers are already saved the moment that they place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not by rites or religious works, or good works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Now this does not remove good works/acts of obedience (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation.

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faithhopecharity said:

what is the fire?

thks

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mailmandan said:

Yes, whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. (Acts 10:43) These Gentiles in Acts 10 believed, received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit along with the spiritual gift of tongues (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved before water baptism. (Acts 10:47) How can you say you believe in Him when you also believe in your baptism? Whatever we are believing in for salvation, that is what we are trusting in for salvation. To trust in baptism for salvation is to say that Jesus is not enough, and more is required.

It logically follows that we get water baptized after we believe and are saved, but if someone is on their death bed and cannot get baptized before death, they are still saved because they BELIEVED (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "water baptized or condemned."

Certainly, water baptism is an important act of obedience. Anyone professing to believe in Jesus for salvation and yet refusing to be water baptized is of questionable sincerity. It's unthinkable that anyone who truly believes the gospel would refuse to be water baptized. I personally could not wait to get water baptized after my conversion and I cannot think of one Christian that I know who has refused to be water baptized after their conversion.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.

Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all works must be. Baptism is for believers, and believers are already saved the moment that they place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not by rites or religious works, or good works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). Now this does not remove good works/acts of obedience (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation.

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mailmandan said:

Required for what? Water baptism "follows" salvation. (Acts 10:43-48)

The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid these Gentiles from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM, and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13)

Baptized AFTER they believed in Him, received remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit along with the spiritual gift of tongues (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism.

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faithhopecharity said:

does not say they are saved!

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mailmandan said:

Required for what? Water baptism "follows" salvation. (Acts 10:43-48)

The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid these Gentiles from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM, and the Holy Spirit was proof of this. (Romans 8:9; 1 John 4:13)

Baptized AFTER they believed in Him, received remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit along with the spiritual gift of tongues (which is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism.

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mailmandan said:

One baptism does not mean that only one baptism has ever existed. In Matthew 3:11, we see a clear distinction between water baptism and Spirit baptism. We also see fire. Elsewhere, in Luke 12:50, Jesus said, "But I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am distressed until it should be accomplished!" Of course Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross.

Again, there is only one baptism that saves and places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - ..one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

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mailmandan said:

Philippians 1:29 is not talking about salvation through faith plus suffering for His sake, as if we could suffer enough in order to earn our salvation.

Your misinterpretation is in conflict with Ephesians 2:8,9 which says nothing about salvation based on suffering.

As a Christian we all suffer in varying degrees for his sake. This is descriptive rather than prescriptive.

In regard to 2 Timothy 2:12, we see a contrast with, "if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him -- AND -- If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

"By contrast, the latter "deny Him and faithless" points to the opposite of died with Him, endure and reign with Him. Jesus Himself warned of the danger of denying Him in Matthew 10:33 - "But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.." To "deny him" here does not point merely to a temporary weakness of faith, as in the case of Peter who denied Jesus three times during a moment of weakness (Luke 22:54-62), but is referring to life in it's entirety. The inevitable result is that "He will also deny us."

The warning is repeated in the final sentence, "if we are faithless, he abides faithful." To be "faithless" is in the present tense and denotes this as the habitual attitude, not a temporary lapse of faith. But in contrast to human faithlessness, "He remains faithful," faithful to His word and righteous character and His warning that unbelievers will be rejected.

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mailmandan said:

Philippians 1:29 is not talking about salvation through faith plus suffering for His sake, as if we could suffer enough in order to earn our salvation.

Your misinterpretation is in conflict with Ephesians 2:8,9 which says nothing about salvation based on suffering.

As a Christian we all suffer in varying degrees for his sake. This is descriptive rather than prescriptive.

In regard to 2 Timothy 2:12, we see a contrast with, "if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him -- AND -- If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

"By contrast, the latter "deny Him and faithless" points to the opposite of died with Him, endure and reign with Him. Jesus Himself warned of the danger of denying Him in Matthew 10:33 - "But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.." To "deny him" here does not point merely to a temporary weakness of faith, as in the case of Peter who denied Jesus three times during a moment of weakness (Luke 22:54-62), but is referring to life in it's entirety. The inevitable result is that "He will also deny us."

The warning is repeated in the final sentence, "if we are faithless, he abides faithful." To be "faithless" is in the present tense and denotes this as the habitual attitude, not a temporary lapse of faith. But in contrast to human faithlessness, "He remains faithful," faithful to His word and righteous character and His warning that unbelievers will be rejected.

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mailmandan said:

I already thoroughly covered Mark 16:16 with you in posts #153 and #201. Now in regard to Acts 8:37, And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. In John 20:31, we read - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Now what happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. Water baptism follows believing and salvation.

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faithhopecharity said:

philip said don't bother it's meaningless!

baptism saves us!

thks

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faithhopecharity said:

philip said don't bother it's meaningless!

baptism saves us!

thks

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David Lamb said:

The Philippian jailer was NOT told, "Be baptized and you will be saved," but "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" (see Acts 16:31). Philip told the Ethiopian that if he believed with all his heart, he could be baptized. Then we read:

(Act 8:37) And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
(Act 8:38) So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

Like the Ethiopian, I was saved, and then I was baptized. Jesus saves us, not baptism.

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Eternally Grateful said:

Modern day circumcision is water baptism.. Satan is so great at decieving people and they fall for it every time

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