When Jesus "took away" your sin, did He leave behind the source, the sin nature?

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1stCenturyLady

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I believe, as Paul teaches, that I still wrestle with my flesh and have to “put it to death” daily. Paul says plainly that “the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh” (Galatians 5:17). That tells me the flesh is still something every believer deals with while we’re here in this physical body.
I understand that you don't want to know anything more right now, but to "put it to death" daily, as in "I die daily" is really too funny not to say something. Read it again from somewhere in 1 Cor. 15. The chapter is about the resurrection. And what he doesn't mind doing everyday is break the law and preach the gospel. It puts his life in "jeopardy." And it finally got him beheaded. But he didn't care, his mindset was maybe today's the day, because he knew everyday that the sooner he was killed, the sooner he would be with Jesus because of the resurrection. Thanks for the chuckle.
Are you saying you are now a sinless creature who never thinks anything wrong, never feels a fleshly pull, and never experiences the conflict Paul describes in Romans 7 and Galatians 5?
Matthew, from the moment I wake up until I go to bed my mind is constantly on memorizing the Word and where those passages are found and the context. It is how I knew "I die daily" was in 1 Cor. 15, the chapter on the resurrection. I usually know the verse also, so will look it up later and get that stored also. But I don't only know the verse, I know the CONTEXT, and that is I know what it doesn't mean. Which I'm afraid is what you think it means. And frightfully, you are in the majority of Christians that have taken that verse out of context. Some monks have been known to flog their backs until it is raw. When I'm driving I'm practicing teaching what I've learned from God, not any man.

My husband is the last man I kissed back in 2001, but he divorced me without cause to marry the wife of his best friend, and I care more about not sinning than I do flirting. I'm not just a self-appointed teacher. Back in 2000 I was driving through the Arizona desert on my way to a Spirit-filled life conference in California and I heard God interrupt my thoughts and say, "I am giving you the office of Teacher." Along with that came a supernatural new level of obedience. Also when I got to California, my old pastor anointed me with oil for that office. So it wouldn't be fair to impose my level of obedience that I enjoy onto anyone else. Let's just say, like Paul, I enjoy a clear conscience. I don't just get checked in my spirit as most Spirit-filled people, I get demanded. So, you might say, I die daily, knowing the abuse I receive daily on Christian forum sites. This isn't the only one I'm on.

Romans 7 starts from verse 1 to be about the Old Testament law. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT! (I'm not yelling, it is just so important.) There are three sections of the history of the Law. Before the law and the giving of the law (v.9), after becoming a Christian and the flesh is in the past and in a New Covenant (v.5-6), and what it was like to be under the law trying to keep it with the old man alive and kicking (vs.14-25). In fact, verse 24 shows those people still needed the Messiah to come. Westerners get hung up on the Eastern style of personal present pronouns like here "I" and 1 John 1 "we." But Romans 8:2 has another personal present pronoun "me" that just freed him from Romans 7:14-25. LOL Oh, how people love their pet verses taken out of context.
 

MatthewG

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Too much for me, @1stCenturyLady. I’m not continuing this conversation. Take care.

I hope people don’t get pulled into that sinless perfection teaching. Scripture is clear: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves” (1 John 1:8). I don’t believe that doctrine, and I don’t trust the people promoting it.

I didn’t ask about your personal life — that’s not my business.

Mocking people isn’t spiritual. “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth” (Ephesians 4:29). Laughing at others because you think they’re wrong, or trying to control the narrative, isn’t the Spirit — it’s the flesh. “The works of the flesh are evident… strife, fits of anger, dissensions” (Galatians 5:19–20). That kind of behavior borders on manipulation, whether you realize it or not.

I can’t stand when people try to do that to me.

Goodbye.
 

Lizbeth

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Absolutely true. This notion of parsing sins, some OK and some not OK, to me is absurd. It's not about a list of behaviors that is prohibited and another list that is frowned upon, and everything else is OK.

All that is not of faith is sin. The good that you know to do and don't do, this is sin. Our sin isn't determined by whether we are acting out this list of things or that list, rather, are we living/walking in the Spirit, or according to the flesh.


I suggest to you that Hebrews 12 speaks a different way, that if we need help, if we don't just stop the wrong we do, God has promised - promised - to correct us, and has guaranteed that His correction will be effective.

Much love!
There is no guarantee in Hebrews 12 brother, or anywhere. God does His part, but we also have our part and need to be willing. The bible says that if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction. People aren't always repentant no matter what the Lord does, that is just a sad fact. There are so many scriptures .......seared conscience, hardened heart, deception and deceitfulness of sin, etc. The devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour....we could go on and on, there are so many scriptures written for our warning. The Lord will sometimes even stop striving and give a person over to their sin....longsuffering has a limit. I have even had Him tell me to stop praying for someone, on one or two occasions.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Too much for me, @1stCenturyLady. I’m not continuing this conversation. Take care.

I hope people don’t get pulled into that sinless perfection teaching. Scripture is clear: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves” (1 John 1:8). I don’t believe that doctrine, and I don’t trust the people promoting it.

I didn’t ask about your personal life — that’s not my business.

Mocking people isn’t spiritual. “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth” (Ephesians 4:29). Laughing at others because you think they’re wrong, or trying to control the narrative, isn’t the Spirit — it’s the flesh. “The works of the flesh are evident… strife, fits of anger, dissensions” (Galatians 5:19–20). That kind of behavior borders on manipulation, whether you realize it or not.

I can’t stand when people try to do that to me.

Goodbye.
I didn't mock you. Unless, laughing at the Church's interpretation you took personally. I don't teach sinless perfection. They are years apart. But I do teach what Jesus does in us. First taking away our sin nature making us righteous (sinless) as the Author or our faith. And then matures the fruit for years and at the end we have been made holy (perfect). Matthew, these are end times when the Church is going to fall away from sound teaching. You may think you have it and I don't, but I hope you read the sermon on the mount, especially vs.48.
 

MatthewG

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No, it isn’t the end days to me, and I don’t believe that it is.

You quoted me and talking to me... should be more careful about how you are saying things.

If that disappoints you, that’s not my intention. I just can’t agree with what you’re telling me, especially when I’ve used scripture to explain my perspective, and it feels like that hasn’t mattered to you.

That’s what I found offensive.

Yahavah bless you.
 
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marks

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There is no guarantee in Hebrews 12 brother, or anywhere.
Actually there is.

Hebrews 12:5-13 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Much love!
 

ProDeo

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I didn't mock you. Unless, laughing at the Church's interpretation you took personally. I don't teach sinless perfection. They are years apart. But I do teach what Jesus does in us. First taking away our sin nature making us righteous (sinless) as the Author or our faith. And then matures the fruit for years and at the end we have been made holy (perfect).

1. Sin Nature, not in the Bible

2. righteous ≠ sinless

3. we have been made holy (perfect), not in Scripture.

Question, when you sin, do you ask for forgiveness ?
 

ProDeo

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I keep sensing that you are trying to connect the old rotten "pentecostal" "2nd work of Grace".. nonsense into some idea you have of being "purified".

So, if that is true, then put that away, as its a false doctrine, that is strictly from the imagination of deceptive Pentecostalism, that is built emtirely on the FALSE PREMISE that the "Acts of the Apostles"...(The book of Acts) is what "every Christian should be doing.
So, this is the theological nonsense that you find in the Assembly of God (Pentecostal-Charismtic) Word of Faith teachings that is strictly false.
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Second time I ask @Behold, when you sin, do you ask for forgiveness ?
 

marks

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God does His part, but we also have our part and need to be willing.
Yes, our sanctification progresses more easily if we are cooperating with God.

What He works into us, we are to work out, taking this more Godly character into practice in our lives.

The bible says that if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction.
Is this the passage you have in mind?

Galatians 6:7-8 KJV
7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Consider that this means in this life, that what we sow to our flesh continues to corrupt our flesh, and what we sow to the spirit becomes everlasting life in our earthly life now. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

I don't believe that part means that we are gaining eternal life because of the things we do. I see it more in line with this part:

Galatians 2:15-18 KJV
15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Paul is clear this is not about our justification, which is in Jesus alone, but rather that if we sin it's not because of Jesus Christ, it's because we did that to ourselves. We sowed to our flesh, and of our flesh we reaped corruption, which in this context means a more fleshy bent towards sin.

This doesn't mean we cannot overcome these or any sins as we walk in the Spirit. We can overcome by trusting Jesus to deliver us. But the more we've corrupted our flesh (science is even learning how to describe the ways this can happen) the greater our struggle may be.

Even so, with God, all things are possible.


People aren't always repentant no matter what the Lord does, that is just a sad fact.
We don't know other's hearts. We don't know what the Lord has planned, and that's fact. Hebrews states plainly that the Lord chastens His children, and that His chastening works. Maybe you've seen people in the middle of their process, maybe the people you've seen were not true regenerate Christians, I have no idea. But I know what the Bible says, again, plainly.

There are so many scriptures .......seared conscience,
1 Timothy 4:1-3 KJV
1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

hardened heart, deception and deceitfulness of sin, etc. The devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour....we could go on and on, there are so many scriptures written for our warning.
As always I start with the passages which make crystal clear statements regarding our life in Christ. Many passages are written in ways that address the different soils of Jesus' parable, and these warnings are so you will "examine yourself to see if you be in the faith".

There is much written about the kind of people who will not inherit the kingdom, and yet these very passages do not make statements that the regenerate return to flesh, or things of this nature. You've been translated from the kingdom of darkness to Jesus' kingdom, and never does Scripture speak of returning you to the kingdom of darkness.

You've passed from death to life, and never does Scripture speak of returning you to death. What it does say, in many places, in many ways, that if you are alive in Him now, you will remain, to be revealed with Him then. If you are a citizen of heaven now, you will be transformed to be like Him then. I could go on and on with passages like these.

None of these clear, direct statements are overturned by other passages, and all the more so when said passages do not make direct clear statements of a salvation lost, of a reversal of regeneration.

And Scripture likewise tells us over and over, and in various ways, that there are those who think they are saved and are not. These are warned, these have no status as sons, these are they who leave, having no root in themself. These are they who have a happy experience, but when the rubber meets the road, they aren't willing, because they don't actually have new life.

The Lord will sometimes even stop striving and give a person over to their sin....longsuffering has a limit. I have even had Him tell me to stop praying for someone, on one or two occasions.
My Bible tells me that "God is love", and that "love suffers long", and that God pities His worshipers, remembering we are made of dust. It tells me oh so much about how He will never stop working with me, will never forsake me, will never leave me, and I believe Him.

Are you telling me that God will cause His child to become unborn again, resurrecting the flesh, and killing the spirit?

Are you saying that the child of God, deep in a crisis of faith and sin, despairing of any hope for recovery, lost in their wilderness, that God will strip them of His Spirit, cast them away from His love, abandoning them to their flesh?

I don't believe that for a moment!

Romans 1:24 KJV
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

This part above was not written concerning God's children. This is God's wrath against those who refuse Him. It's similar to this part:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 KJV
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, written concerning those who refused God, these in particular refused to receive the love for the truth. They preferred lies, so God gives them a lie. These are not His children, they are the perishing ones. Those who remain in death.

A child of God who is failing in their struggle against sin is in a time of greatest need, will their Heavenly Father, having promised - promised - to never leave them, never forsake them, will He leave them, forsaking them to die in that struggle?

Won't our God save us when we need Him most?

Much love!