When Jesus "took away" your sin, did He leave behind the source, the sin nature?

[1stCenturyLady]

I believe, as Paul teaches, that I still wrestle with my flesh and have to “put it to death” daily. Paul says plainly that “the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh” (Galatians 5:17). That tells me the flesh is still something every believer deals with while we’re here in this physical body.

I understand that you don't want to know anything more right now, but to "put it to death" daily, as in "I die daily" is really too funny not to say something. Read it again from somewhere in 1 Cor. 15. The chapter is about the resurrection. And what he doesn't mind doing everyday is break the law and preach the gospel. It puts his life in "jeopardy." And it finally got him beheaded. But he didn't care, his mindset was maybe today's the day, because he knew everyday that the sooner he was killed, the sooner he would be with Jesus because of the resurrection. Thanks for the chuckle.

Are you saying you are now a sinless creature who never thinks anything wrong, never feels a fleshly pull, and never experiences the conflict Paul describes in Romans 7 and Galatians 5?

Matthew, from the moment I wake up until I go to bed my mind is constantly on memorizing the Word and where those passages are found and the context. It is how I knew "I die daily" was in 1 Cor. 15, the chapter on the resurrection. I usually know the verse also, so will look it up later and get that stored also. But I don't only know the verse, I know the CONTEXT, and that is I know what it doesn't mean. Which I'm afraid is what you think it means. And frightfully, you are in the majority of Christians that have taken that verse out of context. Some monks have been known to flog their backs until it is raw. When I'm driving I'm practicing teaching what I've learned from God, not any man.

My husband is the last man I kissed back in 2001, but he divorced me without cause to marry the wife of his best friend, and I care more about not sinning than I do flirting. I'm not just a self-appointed teacher. Back in 2000 I was driving through the Arizona desert on my way to a Spirit-filled life conference in California and I heard God interrupt my thoughts and say, "I am giving you the office of Teacher." Along with that came a supernatural new level of obedience. Also when I got to California, my old pastor anointed me with oil for that office. So it wouldn't be fair to impose my level of obedience that I enjoy onto anyone else. Let's just say, like Paul, I enjoy a clear conscience. I don't just get checked in my spirit as most Spirit-filled people, I get demanded. So, you might say, I die daily, knowing the abuse I receive daily on Christian forum sites. This isn't the only one I'm on.

Romans 7 starts from verse 1 to be about the Old Testament law. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT! (I'm not yelling, it is just so important.) There are three sections of the history of the Law. Before the law and the giving of the law (v.9), after becoming a Christian and the flesh is in the past and in a New Covenant (v.5-6), and what it was like to be under the law trying to keep it with the old man alive and kicking (vs.14-25). In fact, verse 24 shows those people still needed the Messiah to come. Westerners get hung up on the Eastern style of personal present pronouns like here "I" and 1 John 1 "we." But Romans 8:2 has another personal present pronoun "me" that just freed him from Romans 7:14-25. LOL Oh, how people love their pet verses taken out of context.

 

[MatthewG]

Too much for me, @1stCenturyLady. I’m not continuing this conversation. Take care.

I hope people don’t get pulled into that sinless perfection teaching. Scripture is clear: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves” (1 John 1:8). I don’t believe that doctrine, and I don’t trust the people promoting it.

I didn’t ask about your personal life — that’s not my business.

Mocking people isn’t spiritual. “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth” (Ephesians 4:29). Laughing at others because you think they’re wrong, or trying to control the narrative, isn’t the Spirit — it’s the flesh. “The works of the flesh are evident… strife, fits of anger, dissensions” (Galatians 5:19–20). That kind of behavior borders on manipulation, whether you realize it or not.

I can’t stand when people try to do that to me.

Goodbye.

 

[Lizbeth]

Absolutely true. This notion of parsing sins, some OK and some not OK, to me is absurd. It's not about a list of behaviors that is prohibited and another list that is frowned upon, and everything else is OK.

All that is not of faith is sin. The good that you know to do and don't do, this is sin. Our sin isn't determined by whether we are acting out this list of things or that list, rather, are we living/walking in the Spirit, or according to the flesh.


I suggest to you that Hebrews 12 speaks a different way, that if we need help, if we don't just stop the wrong we do, God has promised - promised - to correct us, and has guaranteed that His correction will be effective.

Much love!

There is no guarantee in Hebrews 12 brother, or anywhere. God does His part, but we also have our part and need to be willing. The bible says that if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction. People aren't always repentant no matter what the Lord does, that is just a sad fact. There are so many scriptures .......seared conscience, hardened heart, deception and deceitfulness of sin, etc. The devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour....we could go on and on, there are so many scriptures written for our warning. The Lord will sometimes even stop striving and give a person over to their sin....longsuffering has a limit. I have even had Him tell me to stop praying for someone, on one or two occasions.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Too much for me, @1stCenturyLady. I’m not continuing this conversation. Take care.

I hope people don’t get pulled into that sinless perfection teaching. Scripture is clear: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves” (1 John 1:8). I don’t believe that doctrine, and I don’t trust the people promoting it.

I didn’t ask about your personal life — that’s not my business.

Mocking people isn’t spiritual. “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth” (Ephesians 4:29). Laughing at others because you think they’re wrong, or trying to control the narrative, isn’t the Spirit — it’s the flesh. “The works of the flesh are evident… strife, fits of anger, dissensions” (Galatians 5:19–20). That kind of behavior borders on manipulation, whether you realize it or not.

I can’t stand when people try to do that to me.

Goodbye.

I didn't mock you. Unless, laughing at the Church's interpretation you took personally. I don't teach sinless perfection. They are years apart. But I do teach what Jesus does in us. First taking away our sin nature making us righteous (sinless) as the Author or our faith. And then matures the fruit for years and at the end we have been made holy (perfect). Matthew, these are end times when the Church is going to fall away from sound teaching. You may think you have it and I don't, but I hope you read the sermon on the mount, especially vs.48.

 

[MatthewG]

No, it isn’t the end days to me, and I don’t believe that it is.

You quoted me and talking to me... should be more careful about how you are saying things.

If that disappoints you, that’s not my intention. I just can’t agree with what you’re telling me, especially when I’ve used scripture to explain my perspective, and it feels like that hasn’t mattered to you.

That’s what I found offensive.

Yahavah bless you.

 

[marks]

There is no guarantee in Hebrews 12 brother, or anywhere.

Actually there is.

Hebrews 12:5-13 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

I didn't mock you. Unless, laughing at the Church's interpretation you took personally. I don't teach sinless perfection. They are years apart. But I do teach what Jesus does in us. First taking away our sin nature making us righteous (sinless) as the Author or our faith. And then matures the fruit for years and at the end we have been made holy (perfect).

1. Sin Nature, not in the Bible

2. righteous ≠ sinless

3. we have been made holy (perfect), not in Scripture.

Question, when you sin, do you ask for forgiveness ?

 

[ProDeo]

I keep sensing that you are trying to connect the old rotten "pentecostal" "2nd work of Grace".. nonsense into some idea you have of being "purified".

So, if that is true, then put that away, as its a false doctrine, that is strictly from the imagination of deceptive Pentecostalism, that is built emtirely on the FALSE PREMISE that the "Acts of the Apostles"...(The book of Acts) is what "every Christian should be doing.
So, this is the theological nonsense that you find in the Assembly of God (Pentecostal-Charismtic) Word of Faith teachings that is strictly false.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second time I ask @Behold, when you sin, do you ask for forgiveness ?

 

[marks]

God does His part, but we also have our part and need to be willing.

Yes, our sanctification progresses more easily if we are cooperating with God.

What He works into us, we are to work out, taking this more Godly character into practice in our lives.

The bible says that if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction.

Is this the passage you have in mind?

Galatians 6:7-8 KJV
7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Consider that this means in this life, that what we sow to our flesh continues to corrupt our flesh, and what we sow to the spirit becomes everlasting life in our earthly life now. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

I don't believe that part means that we are gaining eternal life because of the things we do. I see it more in line with this part:

Galatians 2:15-18 KJV
15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Paul is clear this is not about our justification, which is in Jesus alone, but rather that if we sin it's not because of Jesus Christ, it's because we did that to ourselves. We sowed to our flesh, and of our flesh we reaped corruption, which in this context means a more fleshy bent towards sin.

This doesn't mean we cannot overcome these or any sins as we walk in the Spirit. We can overcome by trusting Jesus to deliver us. But the more we've corrupted our flesh (science is even learning how to describe the ways this can happen) the greater our struggle may be.

Even so, with God, all things are possible.

People aren't always repentant no matter what the Lord does, that is just a sad fact.

We don't know other's hearts. We don't know what the Lord has planned, and that's fact. Hebrews states plainly that the Lord chastens His children, and that His chastening works. Maybe you've seen people in the middle of their process, maybe the people you've seen were not true regenerate Christians, I have no idea. But I know what the Bible says, again, plainly.

There are so many scriptures .......seared conscience,

1 Timothy 4:1-3 KJV
1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

hardened heart, deception and deceitfulness of sin, etc. The devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour....we could go on and on, there are so many scriptures written for our warning.

As always I start with the passages which make crystal clear statements regarding our life in Christ. Many passages are written in ways that address the different soils of Jesus' parable, and these warnings are so you will "examine yourself to see if you be in the faith".

There is much written about the kind of people who will not inherit the kingdom, and yet these very passages do not make statements that the regenerate return to flesh, or things of this nature. You've been translated from the kingdom of darkness to Jesus' kingdom, and never does Scripture speak of returning you to the kingdom of darkness.

You've passed from death to life, and never does Scripture speak of returning you to death. What it does say, in many places, in many ways, that if you are alive in Him now, you will remain, to be revealed with Him then. If you are a citizen of heaven now, you will be transformed to be like Him then. I could go on and on with passages like these.

None of these clear, direct statements are overturned by other passages, and all the more so when said passages do not make direct clear statements of a salvation lost, of a reversal of regeneration.

And Scripture likewise tells us over and over, and in various ways, that there are those who think they are saved and are not. These are warned, these have no status as sons, these are they who leave, having no root in themself. These are they who have a happy experience, but when the rubber meets the road, they aren't willing, because they don't actually have new life.

The Lord will sometimes even stop striving and give a person over to their sin....longsuffering has a limit. I have even had Him tell me to stop praying for someone, on one or two occasions.

My Bible tells me that "God is love", and that "love suffers long", and that God pities His worshipers, remembering we are made of dust. It tells me oh so much about how He will never stop working with me, will never forsake me, will never leave me, and I believe Him.

Are you telling me that God will cause His child to become unborn again, resurrecting the flesh, and killing the spirit?

Are you saying that the child of God, deep in a crisis of faith and sin, despairing of any hope for recovery, lost in their wilderness, that God will strip them of His Spirit, cast them away from His love, abandoning them to their flesh?

I don't believe that for a moment!

Romans 1:24 KJV
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

This part above was not written concerning God's children. This is God's wrath against those who refuse Him. It's similar to this part:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 KJV
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, written concerning those who refused God, these in particular refused to receive the love for the truth. They preferred lies, so God gives them a lie. These are not His children, they are the perishing ones. Those who remain in death.

A child of God who is failing in their struggle against sin is in a time of greatest need, will their Heavenly Father, having promised - promised - to never leave them, never forsake them, will He leave them, forsaking them to die in that struggle?

Won't our God save us when we need Him most?

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Actually there is.

Hebrews 12:5-13 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Much love!

Yes, I do know what is written there, but it's a general statement, not a guarantee that everyone will automatically respond. We have to look at the whole counsel of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

Is this the passage you have in mind?

Galatians 6:7-8 KJV
7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Consider that this means in this life, that what we sow to our flesh continues to corrupt our flesh, and what we sow to the spirit becomes everlasting life in our earthly life now. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

I'm afraid you're overthinking it and grasping at straws in order to try and make it fit your OSAS belief.

Reaping corruption is as opposed to reaping everlasting life......the two are mutually exclusive. It's either inherit eternal life or don't.

I don't believe that part means that we are gaining eternal life because of the things we do. I see it more in line with this part:

Galatians 2:15-18 KJV
15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Paul is clear this is not about our justification, which is in Jesus alone, but rather that if we sin it's not because of Jesus Christ, it's because we did that to ourselves. We sowed to our flesh, and of our flesh we reaped corruption, which in this context means a more fleshy bent towards sin.

This doesn't mean we cannot overcome these or any sins as we walk in the Spirit. We can overcome by trusting Jesus to deliver us. But the more we've corrupted our flesh (science is even learning how to describe the ways this can happen) the greater our struggle may be.

Even so, with God, all things are possible.

Nevertheless, scriptures teach that transgressors will not inherit eternal life. Such had been delivered and were justified but they unfortunately returned to their wallowing in the mire. There is no more sacrifice for sin if one keeps on willfully sinning.

1Co 6:8-10

Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Gal 5:18-21

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Clearly those who are sowing to the flesh in such ways are not walking in and being led by the Spirit., and if they don't repent of course they will not reap eternal life.

With God all things are possible........but they are not guaranteed. It requires such things as sincerity, willingness, cooperation and desiring and seeking righteousness on our part.

We don't know other's hearts. We don't know what the Lord has planned, and that's fact. Hebrews states plainly that the Lord chastens His children, and that His chastening works. Maybe you've seen people in the middle of their process, maybe the people you've seen were not true regenerate Christians, I have no idea. But I know what the Bible says, again, plainly.

I'm just pointing out what the scriptures say to us all, not trying to make individual judgments about individual persons. I've seen people fall away and depart from the faith unfortunately. There are those the Lord will even tell us not to keep praying for, I've had that happen to me once or twice. Sins unto death....wilful sins, self-deceived. That is why the scripture says there is no more sacrifice if one keeps on wilfully sinning. They've been warned, they've been chastened and still prefer to cling to their sin and chase their lusts. We have seen that a lot in mega ministries.......unfortunately tempted by money and power and what it affords them. Nothing but scandal after scandal being exposed in recent decades. It should wake us up.....the devil plays for keeps. God is faithful to do all on His part, but people are not like puppets that He chooses to control....they exercise their will and make choices. We are in a real war for souls and like in any war there can be real casualties.

As always I start with the passages which make crystal clear statements regarding our life in Christ. Many passages are written in ways that address the different soils of Jesus' parable, and these warnings are so you will "examine yourself to see if you be in the faith".

There is much written about the kind of people who will not inherit the kingdom, and yet these very passages do not make statements that the regenerate return to flesh, or things of this nature. You've been translated from the kingdom of darkness to Jesus' kingdom, and never does Scripture speak of returning you to the kingdom of darkness.

You've passed from death to life, and never does Scripture speak of returning you to death. What it does say, in many places, in many ways, that if you are alive in Him now, you will remain, to be revealed with Him then. If you are a citizen of heaven now, you will be transformed to be like Him then. I could go on and on with passages like these.

None of these clear, direct statements are overturned by other passages, and all the more so when said passages do not make direct clear statements of a salvation lost, of a reversal of regeneration.

And Scripture likewise tells us over and over, and in various ways, that there are those who think they are saved and are not. These are warned, these have no status as sons, these are they who leave, having no root in themself. These are they who have a happy experience, but when the rubber meets the road, they aren't willing, because they don't actually have new life.

Gosh brother what do we think it means to fall away or become a cast away. Scripture does actually warn, all over the place and it's not difficult to see as long we dont' have blinders on.

Being saved is not a guarantee one will remain saved............that is the reason for all those many warnings. People can fall away....and that means they are no longer saved and no longer in the faith.

My Bible tells me that "God is love", and that "love suffers long", and that God pities His worshipers, remembering we are made of dust. It tells me oh so much about how He will never stop working with me, will never forsake me, will never leave me, and I believe Him.

Are you telling me that God will cause His child to become unborn again, resurrecting the flesh, and killing the spirit?

Are you saying that the child of God, deep in a crisis of faith and sin, despairing of any hope for recovery, lost in their wilderness, that God will strip them of His Spirit, cast them away from His love, abandoning them to their flesh?

I don't believe that for a moment!

Romans 1:24 KJV
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

This part above was not written concerning God's children. This is God's wrath against those who refuse Him. It's similar to this part:

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 KJV
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, written concerning those who refused God, these in particular refused to receive the love for the truth. They preferred lies, so God gives them a lie. These are not His children, they are the perishing ones. Those who remain in death.

A child of God who is failing in their struggle against sin is in a time of greatest need, will their Heavenly Father, having promised - promised - to never leave them, never forsake them, will He leave them, forsaking them to die in that struggle?

Won't our God save us when we need Him most?

Again, I'm not trying to judge individual circumstances which only God is privy to. Just saying that it is wrong to believe it is not possible for souls to fall away and become castaways........when scripture clearly warns about it all over the place. He is longsuffering....His love may suffer long but scripture also says He will not strive with man forever. It means longsuffering has a limit, which I believe would be known only to the Lord in every individual case. The lesson being that we just should not mess around with a holy God or take Him lightly, because eternity is at stake.

 

[marks]

I'm afraid you're overthinking it and grasping at straws in order to try and make it fit your OSAS belief.

I'm just believing what I'm reading. I suggest you do the same. Oh, and In Context. That's really important.

There is no need to think I'm foolish enough to create my own Gospel. I believe our rebirth is permanent because that is how God speaks in His Word. I don't start with my preferred view and make the Bible somehow fit it, by misinterpreting, removing from context, and ignoring parts I don't like.

The whole reason I became a Christian in the first place was because I wanted to know the truth, and that was it. I haven't changed from that.

Keep the passages in context. Believe what you read. If you have to change your view, don't be afraid, just confirm what is true.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1. Sin Nature, not in the Bible

2. righteous ≠ sinless

3. we have been made holy (perfect), not in Scripture.

Question, when you sin, do you ask for forgiveness ?

Sin nature is called "the flesh" and "the old man." It is like "the rapture" which is not in the Bible, but "caught up" is. Romans 7:5-6 "5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, (we died to the flesh, the sin nature) so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

1 John 3 is all about not sinning and righteousness, not holiness.
2 Peter 1:2-11 is about becoming perfect and has to do with the fruit of the Spirit, which is after your past sins were taken away.

Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
1 Peter 1:16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
Hebrews 12:2 Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith." He who has begun a good work in you, will finish it until the day of Christ.

So, if you have eyes to see, righteousness does equal sinlessness; and holiness does equal perfection. Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God

These are commanded by Jesus Christ and part of the New Covenant.

When I sin, do I ask for forgiveness? Haven't you been listening??? WHAT SIN? Don't you know that 1 John 1:9 is the same as Acts 2:38 Repent,...and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." It is to become saved and not commit willful sin, only unintentional that you don't know about so can't ask for forgiveness and 1 John 1:7 says that Jesus forgives and cleanses them automatically, as long as you are walking in the Spirit. A born again Christian does not sin intentionally. But most modern Laodecian Christians ask this question, because they find they need to ask forgiveness everyday because their sin nature has not been taken away. That is why they are lukewarm, and God is going to vomit them out of His mouth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Second time I ask @Behold, when you sin, do you ask for forgiveness ?

I hope @Behold would say the same thing that I did.

WHAT SIN? Don't you know that 1 John 1:9 is the same as Acts 2:38 Repent,...and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." It is to become saved and not commit willful sin, only unintentional imperfections that you don't know about so can't ask for forgiveness and 1 John 1:7 says that Jesus forgives and cleanses them automatically, as long as you are walking in the Spirit. A born again Christian does not sin intentionally. But most modern Laodecian Christians ask this question, because they find they need to ask forgiveness everyday because their sin nature has not been taken away. That is why they are lukewarm, and God is going to vomit them out of His mouth.

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t really ask God to forgive me, because He already has. Scripture says, “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins” (Ephesians 1:7). That forgiveness is something He has already accomplished, not something I have to keep earning.

I simply act either by my own choice or when I’m led by the Spirit. “For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God” (Romans 8:14).

If I hurt someone, I’ll apologize to them. I can be harsh at times, and people often see me as someone not to be pushed around — and that’s fine. But when I wrong another person, that’s where an apology belongs. “If possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with all people” (Romans 12:18).

As for God, I have no reason to seek forgiveness beyond what He has already given. He understands human nature because His Son, Yeshua, lived it. “For we do not have a High Priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses” (Hebrews 4:15).

 

[ProDeo]

Sin nature is called "the flesh" and "the old man." It is like "the rapture" which is not in the Bible, but "caught up" is. Romans 7:5-6 "5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, (we died to the flesh, the sin nature) so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

1 John 3 is all about not sinning and righteousness, not holiness.
2 Peter 1:2-11 is about becoming perfect and has to do with the fruit of the Spirit, which is after your past sins were taken away.

Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
1 Peter 1:16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
Hebrews 12:2 Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith." He who has begun a good work in you, will finish it until the day of Christ.

So, if you have eyes to see, righteousness does equal sinlessness; and holiness does equal perfection. Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God

These are commanded by Jesus Christ and part of the New Covenant.

When I sin, do I ask for forgiveness? Haven't you been listening??? WHAT SIN? Don't you know that 1 John 1:9 is the same as Acts 2:38 Repent,...and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." It is to become saved and not commit willful sin, only unintentional that you don't know about so can't ask for forgiveness and 1 John 1:7 says that Jesus forgives and cleanses them automatically, as long as you are walking in the Spirit. A born again Christian does not sin intentionally. But most modern Laodecian Christians ask this question, because they find they need to ask forgiveness everyday because their sin nature has not been taken away. That is why they are lukewarm, and God is going to vomit them out of His mouth.

Of course a born again does not sin intentional, but what about the not intentional sins.

Say I lose my temper, something that seldom happens to me and my anger is not directed at a person, while it is not intentional it certainly is a sin. I do go to the throne of grace as for instance stipulated in 1 John 9 and all is forgiven even the sins I am not aware of, which no doubt I still have.

At this moment of writing I can not think of any sin I am guilty of, my conscience is clean. Does this mean I am sinless? Is there any guarantee I will never lose my temper? On both questions my answer is no. I have learned to not trust myself including feelings that may have the power to deceive me which certainly have happened to me in the past.

As a personal testimony without any intention of judging you or others, I have been into holiness for years until the day came I realized (thank you Lord) my kind of holiness was good but was mixed with pride and self interest. I cried and cried, learned and changed.

Now I understand the Lord's Prayer better - and forgive us our debts

And I have put my trust in : Jude 1:24

Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,

 

[ProDeo]

As for God, I have no reason to seek forgiveness beyond what He has already given. He understands human nature because His Son, Yeshua, lived it. “For we do not have a High Priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses” (Hebrews 4:15).

I don't like to live that dangerously.

 

[MatthewG]

I don't like to live that dangerously.

Good morning,

I was simply sharing what I personally don’t do. Everyone’s relationship with God is personal, and I respect that. “Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5).

For me, I don’t ask God for forgiveness because I believe He has already given it through Yeshua. Scripture says, “By one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14). That forgiveness is something God already accomplished, not something I have to beg for repeatedly.

What I do ask God for is help — help to let things go, help to overcome things, help to grow. “Cast your cares on Him, for He cares for you” (1 Peter 5:7). But saying “Forgive me! Forgive me!” over and over doesn’t make sense to me when the forgiveness was already secured at the cross. “In Him we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins” (Ephesians 1:7).

Of course, that doesn’t give anyone the right to go out and do whatever they want. Grace isn’t a license to sin. “Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid” (Romans 6:1–2). But the forgiveness itself — that’s a gift already given. That’s the mercy of God on us. “His mercy endures forever” (Psalm 136:1).

People make choices — sometimes terrible ones. Someone can choose to step outside their marriage and then run to God crying for forgiveness. That’s just an example. They made the choice. Now they’re crying about the consequences. I don’t always understand that mentality. “A man reaps what he sows” (Galatians 6:7).

(I seen this a lot in people who get arrested and integrated with the police - they start calling out to God to help them when they they done did what they did... and are trying to run from what they did.)

That doesn’t mean we hide things from God. We still confess what we’ve done — meaning we acknowledge it honestly. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us” (1 John 1:9). But I personally see no reason to ask for forgiveness when the forgiveness was already given. The only forgiveness I feel I need to ask for is from the person I may have hurt.

As for God, I don’t think people can actually hurt Him. He is not wounded the way humans are. “God is not a man” (Numbers 23:19). We can grieve His Spirit (Ephesians 4:30), but that’s not the same as harming Him.

What do you think?

 

[Lambano]

I don’t really ask God to forgive me, because He already has.

I've run across people who take that position, and that's fine.

Personally, when I do mess up, I'll talk to God about it, I'll say "sorry" and ask for forgiveness. Even though I know He already knows and forgives me. It's a relationship thing.

 

[ProDeo]

Good morning,

I was simply sharing what I personally don’t do. Everyone’s relationship with God is personal, and I respect that. “Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5).

For me, I don’t ask God for forgiveness because I believe He has already given it through Yeshua. Scripture says, “By one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14). That forgiveness is something God already accomplished, not something I have to beg for repeatedly.

What I do ask God for is help — help to let things go, help to overcome things, help to grow. “Cast your cares on Him, for He cares for you” (1 Peter 5:7). But saying “Forgive me! Forgive me!” over and over doesn’t make sense to me when the forgiveness was already secured at the cross. “In Him we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins” (Ephesians 1:7).

Of course, that doesn’t give anyone the right to go out and do whatever they want. Grace isn’t a license to sin. “Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? God forbid” (Romans 6:1–2). But the forgiveness itself — that’s a gift already given. That’s the mercy of God on us. “His mercy endures forever” (Psalm 136:1).

People make choices — sometimes terrible ones. Someone can choose to step outside their marriage and then run to God crying for forgiveness. That’s just an example. They made the choice. Now they’re crying about the consequences. I don’t always understand that mentality. “A man reaps what he sows” (Galatians 6:7).

(I seen this a lot in people who get arrested and integrated with the police - they start calling out to God to help them when they they done did what they did... and are trying to run from what they did.)

That doesn’t mean we hide things from God. We still confess what we’ve done — meaning we acknowledge it honestly. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us” (1 John 1:9). But I personally see no reason to ask for forgiveness when the forgiveness was already given. The only forgiveness I feel I need to ask for is from the person I may have hurt.

As for God, I don’t think people can actually hurt Him. He is not wounded the way humans are. “God is not a man” (Numbers 23:19). We can grieve His Spirit (Ephesians 4:30), but that’s not the same as harming Him.

What do you think?

What do I think you ask, well, your teaching is new for me, but you explained it very well.