Three Days and Three Nights
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Boaz,
re: "12 hrs is in a day 12 hrs in a night "
And 7 days are in a week. But neither one has anything to do with my question.
re: "12 hrs is in a day 12 hrs in a night "
And 7 days are in a week. But neither one has anything to do with my question.
Webers_Home
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● Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Was Jonah alive in the fish? Yes (Jonah 2:1)
The whole time? No.
At some point in Jonah's nautical adventure he went to a place called sheol
(Jonah 2:2) which he described as the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah
2:6)
The bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located down deep in the earth.
Now when you think about it, Christ's corpse wasn't interred in the heart of
the earth. In point of fact it wasn't even buried in the earth's soil. It was laid
to rest on the surface of the earth in a rock-hewn tomb. So then, in order for
Christ to be down in the heart of the earth while up on the surface too
literally two places at once --he and his body had to part company and go
separate ways.
Just before being cast ashore, Jonah prayed thus:
● Jonah 2:6 . .To the bottoms of the mountains I went down. As for the
earth, its bars were upon me for time indefinite. But out of the pit you
proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God.
The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse is the very same word for "pit" in Ps
16:8-10; which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is speaking of putrefaction. In other
words: Jonah 2:6 is the language of resurrection.
So then, just as Jonah's soul was not left in sheol, Christ's soul was not left
in the heart of the earth. And just as Jonah's body was not left to
decompose, neither was Christ's. And both men came back from their tombs
as humans rather than spirits. If that were not so, then the story of Jonah
would be a pretty useless parallel to Christ's story.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
● Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Was Jonah alive in the fish? Yes (Jonah 2:1)
The whole time? No.
At some point in Jonah's nautical adventure he went to a place called sheol
(Jonah 2:2) which he described as the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah
2:6)
The bottoms of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no;
they're located down deep in the earth.
Now when you think about it, Christ's corpse wasn't interred in the heart of
the earth. In point of fact it wasn't even buried in the earth's soil. It was laid
to rest on the surface of the earth in a rock-hewn tomb. So then, in order for
Christ to be down in the heart of the earth while up on the surface too
literally two places at once --he and his body had to part company and go
separate ways.
Just before being cast ashore, Jonah prayed thus:
● Jonah 2:6 . .To the bottoms of the mountains I went down. As for the
earth, its bars were upon me for time indefinite. But out of the pit you
proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God.
The Hebrew word for "pit" in that verse is the very same word for "pit" in Ps
16:8-10; which Acts 2:25-31 verifies is speaking of putrefaction. In other
words: Jonah 2:6 is the language of resurrection.
So then, just as Jonah's soul was not left in sheol, Christ's soul was not left
in the heart of the earth. And just as Jonah's body was not left to
decompose, neither was Christ's. And both men came back from their tombs
as humans rather than spirits. If that were not so, then the story of Jonah
would be a pretty useless parallel to Christ's story.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Since we're now into the 4th quarter of the year, maybe someone new looking in will know of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise.
bbyrd009
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bbyrd009
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if i get this, essentially you are asking how the resurrection could occur on Sunday if the trial was not held until Shabbat midnight or thereabouts, right? And the crucifixion thus could not have happened before Saturday. Is that right?
bbyrd009,
re: "if i get this, essentially you are asking how the resurrection could occur on Sunday if the trial was not held until Shabbat midnight or thereabouts, right? And the crucifixion thus could not have happened before Saturday. Is that right?"
No, not for the purpose of this topic. Let me try again:
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".
2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.
3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.
4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.
5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.
6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.
6. For the purpose of this topic, I am merely asking for some of the examples being used to support an assertion of commonality.
re: "if i get this, essentially you are asking how the resurrection could occur on Sunday if the trial was not held until Shabbat midnight or thereabouts, right? And the crucifixion thus could not have happened before Saturday. Is that right?"
No, not for the purpose of this topic. Let me try again:
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".
2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.
3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.
4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.
5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.
6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.
6. For the purpose of this topic, I am merely asking for some of the examples being used to support an assertion of commonality.
there's no real discrepancy here, when the Lord submitted Himself in the hands of man, consider where and what man is. and from Heaven into the earth in God's design is through man. so on Thursday the Lord began to enter the heart of the earth. so evening a morning is the day correct? the evening we call Thursday night the evening we call Friday night and the evening we call Saturday night next morning Jesus is risen. even if it was the night we call Thursday night its still there nights three days. doesn't have to be a complete day for the day to be included.
so in Jewish terms evening and morning of the sixth day evening and morning of the seventh day and evening and morning of the first day of the week (which can be seen as the eighth day)
God gave us His place in the earth, and if that which is of God is to do as Jesus did, its to be through man to be done righteously according to what God has made. the night He was betrayed is the beginning of the entry into the heart of the earth and the morning His apostle discovered His resurrection was the end of that.
there were many times were they wanted to do Jesus harm but His time wasn't yet.
so if you run into such argument that's how it works. one must understand Jesus doesn't speak from man's view in creation He speaks from God's view and place over creation. He is the Word of God.
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liafailrock
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Hi Rstrats: I remember seeing your OP before, I think on another forum where a poster (in agreement with me) by the name of John 8:32 said to the effect that Christ himself defined the day he was using, i.e. are there not 12 hours in a day? Being into sundials, I took that as a phase we gnomonists would understand given that ALL days back then, being they were long or short had 12 hours (being divided equally). As a matter of fact, that's the only biblical mention of 12 hours in a day (although other passages mention numerical hours). So that is confirmation in such jargon that he was defining a day from sunrise to sunset and night would thus be sunset to sunrise. So in Matthew's passage (given that definition) when he said 3 days and 3 nights, then it ceases to be an idiom and means a full 72 hours. If we look at the story of Jonah, we see the sea turbulence in the ocean Jonah was thrown into (likened unto Jesus dying during the crucifixion) until he is swallowed by a great fish (likened unto the tomb (Matthew 12:40). So I took this to mean 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb, which was almost immediately after his physical death anyway (thus, I won't debate someone who considers the start of his death about 3PM as the beginning of the 72 hours or a tad later at 6PM about when he was placed in the tomb-- it's essentially the same time of the day, i.e. the evening.) I lean toward the latter time and I'll explain shortly.
That all said, there was the day of Firstfruits, representing Christ's resurrection and ascension. This happened the "morrow after the Sabbath". When cutting the wave sheaf the question would be asked, "Did the sun set yet?" This foreshadowed the time of Christ's resurrection. So when was this? Late Sabbath as Firstfruits was dawning, thus Sunday. Now, we can make a calendar. Christ died late the 14th of Nisan to fulfill the Passover, and unleavened Bread followed immediately afterwards Nisan 15 -- this was a Sabbath High Day. So if he died late on the 14th, 3 days and 3 nights later is late on the 17th as the day ended (i.e. all of the 15th, 16th and 17th in the tomb). We know that the 17th was a Sabbath (Saturday) and Sunday the Firstfruits was coming on. That makes Sunday the 18th of Nisan. Now, look on any calendar where Sunday happens to fall on the 18th and look what day of the week the 14th falls on -- Wednesday.
So we have Passover crucifixion Wednesday, A Sabbath on Thursday, Friday and then the Sabbath Saturday, and that night as Sunday dawned they were cutting down the wave sheaf as Christ was raising. Take note that 3 days and 3 nights means Christ would rise the same time of the day as he was entombed (or died). That's late afternoon as the sun was setting. So, since Christians today use the Gregorian calendar, for sure Christ arose on the Sabbath day as Firstfruits was dawning.
That all said, there was the day of Firstfruits, representing Christ's resurrection and ascension. This happened the "morrow after the Sabbath". When cutting the wave sheaf the question would be asked, "Did the sun set yet?" This foreshadowed the time of Christ's resurrection. So when was this? Late Sabbath as Firstfruits was dawning, thus Sunday. Now, we can make a calendar. Christ died late the 14th of Nisan to fulfill the Passover, and unleavened Bread followed immediately afterwards Nisan 15 -- this was a Sabbath High Day. So if he died late on the 14th, 3 days and 3 nights later is late on the 17th as the day ended (i.e. all of the 15th, 16th and 17th in the tomb). We know that the 17th was a Sabbath (Saturday) and Sunday the Firstfruits was coming on. That makes Sunday the 18th of Nisan. Now, look on any calendar where Sunday happens to fall on the 18th and look what day of the week the 14th falls on -- Wednesday.
So we have Passover crucifixion Wednesday, A Sabbath on Thursday, Friday and then the Sabbath Saturday, and that night as Sunday dawned they were cutting down the wave sheaf as Christ was raising. Take note that 3 days and 3 nights means Christ would rise the same time of the day as he was entombed (or died). That's late afternoon as the sun was setting. So, since Christians today use the Gregorian calendar, for sure Christ arose on the Sabbath day as Firstfruits was dawning.
DPMartin,
re: "...on Thursday the Lord began to enter the heart of the earth."
Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably won't know of any examples.
re: "...on Thursday the Lord began to enter the heart of the earth."
Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably won't know of any examples.
liafailrock,
Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion believer you probably won't know of examples.
Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifixion believer you probably won't know of examples.
liafailrock
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Exactly. It was my verbose way of saying it won't work. Not much into fitting 10 pounds of fudge into a 5 pound bag.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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Biblical days are somewhat ambiguous.
For example according to Gen 1:4-5, God decreed that night and day be kept distinctly
separate and be called by their own names in order to clearly distinguish between the
two conditions. And according to Gen 1:14-18, He decreed that day is when the sun is
up, and night is when the sun is down.
But then at Gen 2:5, the entire creation endeavor is labeled day.
I recommend we narrow the meaning of day down to just one relative to Easter by
falling in line with Jesus Christ who, better than anyone else, is undeniably qualified to
tell us how to understand a day as it was understood during the years when he himself
was living in Israel.
● John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A man who
walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.
This world's days are of course illuminated by the sun as per Gen 1:14-18.
Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's known as
temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are
times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when days on earth consist of less than 12
normal hours of daylight, and sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official
number of hours was always twelve regardless.
I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve equal
periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way
to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities
(e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices)
In order to avoid confusion; I highly recommend working with the 12-hour day that Jesus
Christ gave us in his statement at John 11:9, i.e. let Day be daytime and let Night be
nighttime; viz: the three days and three nights of Jonah 1:17, Matt 12:40, John 2:19-22
indicate three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun was down.
NOTE: Even little children know the difference between night and day; especially those
afraid of the dark, and they know that night begins when the sun goes down and day
begins with the sun comes up. When a supposed adult can't even understand things as
elementary as those, then I have to seriously question their understanding of things that
are beyond a child's ability to grasp.
● Matt 11:25-26 . . Jesus said: I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because
you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little
children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
/
Biblical days are somewhat ambiguous.
For example according to Gen 1:4-5, God decreed that night and day be kept distinctly
separate and be called by their own names in order to clearly distinguish between the
two conditions. And according to Gen 1:14-18, He decreed that day is when the sun is
up, and night is when the sun is down.
But then at Gen 2:5, the entire creation endeavor is labeled day.
I recommend we narrow the meaning of day down to just one relative to Easter by
falling in line with Jesus Christ who, better than anyone else, is undeniably qualified to
tell us how to understand a day as it was understood during the years when he himself
was living in Israel.
● John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A man who
walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.
This world's days are of course illuminated by the sun as per Gen 1:14-18.
Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's known as
temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are
times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when days on earth consist of less than 12
normal hours of daylight, and sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official
number of hours was always twelve regardless.
I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve equal
periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way
to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities
(e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices)
In order to avoid confusion; I highly recommend working with the 12-hour day that Jesus
Christ gave us in his statement at John 11:9, i.e. let Day be daytime and let Night be
nighttime; viz: the three days and three nights of Jonah 1:17, Matt 12:40, John 2:19-22
indicate three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun was down.
NOTE: Even little children know the difference between night and day; especially those
afraid of the dark, and they know that night begins when the sun goes down and day
begins with the sun comes up. When a supposed adult can't even understand things as
elementary as those, then I have to seriously question their understanding of things that
are beyond a child's ability to grasp.
● Matt 11:25-26 . . Jesus said: I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because
you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little
children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
/
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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A preponderance of textual evidence indicates that Christ revived
sometime during the third day rather after all three days were completely
over and done with.
Matt 17:22-23
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 24:46
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4
/
A preponderance of textual evidence indicates that Christ revived
sometime during the third day rather after all three days were completely
over and done with.
Matt 17:22-23
Mark 9:31
Luke 9:22
Luke 24:46
Acts 10:40
1Cor 15:4
/
liafailrock
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The phrases I found when studying the bible are as follows:
the third day
after 3 days
within 3 days
3 days and 3 nights.
Those are the same scriptures I found such passages. None of them mandate the resurrection happens during the 3rd day, but rather a 3 day span of time. The third day passed and completed is considered the third day. The most precise passage is Matthew 12:40 when the Lord marks it out specifically.
Feast days and special days in the old testament revolved around the day itself, starting at evening or sundown. It makes no sense for Christ to be dead, say, half the a day and risen the other half. Either one or the other. Otherwise the feast celebrating his resurrection (Firstfruits) would not commence at sundown if he were dead yet. If he arose even Saturday afternoon say 3PM, God would still ordain the feast the next day considering that is the first day of his resurrection. In short, he'd have to arise at the time or just before Firstfruits commenced, otherwise the whole purpose of the ceremony is amiss. And again, if Christ arose sometime Sunday, God would have pushed the Firstfruits ceremony to Monday, but we don't see that.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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Very impressive. Unfortunately that paragraph probably makes about as
much sense to the average person as one of Picasso's convoluted paintings.
● Matt 11:25-26 . . Jesus said: I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and
earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and
revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
/
Very impressive. Unfortunately that paragraph probably makes about as
much sense to the average person as one of Picasso's convoluted paintings.
● Matt 11:25-26 . . Jesus said: I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and
earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and
revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
/
To counter the idea that only 3 calendar days were involved let's start with 3 verses:
1. Matthew 12:40 has the Messiah saying that 3 days and 3 nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". The following comment is predicated on the belief that "the heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time when His spirit left His body around the ninth hour. Now in order to have at least a part of each one of 3 daytimes and at least a part of each one of 3 night times, 4 calendar days would have to be involved.
2. Mark 8:31 has the Messiah saying that He would rise after 3 days. So 4 calendar days had to be involved.
3. Luke 24:21 has the men on the road to Emmaus saying that the 1st day of the week "is the 3rd day since these things happened" with the crucifixion being the last thing mentioned as happening. So if the 1st day of the week was the 3rd day since, then the 7th day of the week would be the 2nd since and the 6th day of the week would be the 1st day since, which makes the 5th day of the week the day when the last thing mentioned happened. Thus 4 calendar days were involved.
So the verses that say "on the third day" have to be referring to the third day after, with the word 'after' being understood in order to be in agreement with the first 3 verses.
1. Matthew 12:40 has the Messiah saying that 3 days and 3 nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". The following comment is predicated on the belief that "the heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time when His spirit left His body around the ninth hour. Now in order to have at least a part of each one of 3 daytimes and at least a part of each one of 3 night times, 4 calendar days would have to be involved.
2. Mark 8:31 has the Messiah saying that He would rise after 3 days. So 4 calendar days had to be involved.
3. Luke 24:21 has the men on the road to Emmaus saying that the 1st day of the week "is the 3rd day since these things happened" with the crucifixion being the last thing mentioned as happening. So if the 1st day of the week was the 3rd day since, then the 7th day of the week would be the 2nd since and the 6th day of the week would be the 1st day since, which makes the 5th day of the week the day when the last thing mentioned happened. Thus 4 calendar days were involved.
So the verses that say "on the third day" have to be referring to the third day after, with the word 'after' being understood in order to be in agreement with the first 3 verses.
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