OzSpen
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Looking for advice: Can women be pastors
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As you said, "They are my views", so I usually just notice those of others, and that's about it.
OzSpen
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7t7,
I note you missed 1 Cor 11:5. How come?
How can women be silent in the Corinthian Church (1 Cor 14:33-35) and yet they can teach (1 Cor 14:26) and prophesy (1 Cor 11:5)? Try the promotion of women being silent and yet able to teach and prophesy in the Corinthian Church?
Oz
OzSpen
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So, should women be able to teach and preach and be pastor-teachers in mixed church gatherings?
Triumph1300
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Truth7t7
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You build a big elaborate display for argument, trying to create a contradiction in scripture?
No place in the 1 Cor 11 does it state a woman is prophesying in any church full of men, you have added to scripture, something not there.
Truth7t7
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Truth7t7
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No place in the 1 Cor 11 does it state a woman is prophesying in any church full of men, you have added to scripture, something not there.
I recommend you trash that (NLT) and get a real bible (KJV)
There is a whole long list of views of other people that I was taught in various churches — mainly the CoC — over the years, that I can no longer even entertain since I actually began reading the Bible for myself. Time and time again, I would come across passages that I was told mean "thus and such", only to find that, in actuality many of those ideas and notions were nowhere to be found in the honest evaluations of the words written there.
I wonder how Pricilla & Aquilla managed to do what the Bible says they BOTH did? Did Pricilla just bake them some cookies and make coffee?
Triumph1300
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It honestly all hinges on a single question as to the role of women in the church:
In both I Timothy and Corinthians, Paul makes a comment in the context of false teaching (Ephesians) and disorderly worship (I Timothy). The primary question is whether this was conditional to the specific type of circumstances going on in those churches...or not?
Find the answer to that question, and you've figured out the answer to the larger question.
In both I Timothy and Corinthians, Paul makes a comment in the context of false teaching (Ephesians) and disorderly worship (I Timothy). The primary question is whether this was conditional to the specific type of circumstances going on in those churches...or not?
Find the answer to that question, and you've figured out the answer to the larger question.
Truth7t7
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The Holy Bible is very clear regarding a woman' actions in the Church body.
Pastors And Deacons Are To Be Married Men, Of Good Report, Ruling Their Own Houses Well.
1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
A woman is to remain silent in the Church service, at no time within the Church does a woman exercise authority over the man.
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
A woman is to obey and love her husband and family, be a home maker, simple.
Titus 2:3-5KJV
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
101G
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Philippians 4:1 "Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.
Philippians 4:2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
Philippians 4:3 "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life".
there was women who laboured with Paul in the gospel. preaching it.
Luke 2:36 "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37 "And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38 "And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
here the word "spake" is the Greek word,
G2980 λαλέω laleo (lal-ye'-ō) v.
to talk, i.e. speak words.
[a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb]
KJV: preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter
here it can be translated as "preach". so we see another prophet preaching JESUS, and female.
so it no secret that females preached Christ.
PCY.
Philippians 4:2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
Philippians 4:3 "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life".
there was women who laboured with Paul in the gospel. preaching it.
Luke 2:36 "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37 "And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38 "And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
here the word "spake" is the Greek word,
G2980 λαλέω laleo (lal-ye'-ō) v.
to talk, i.e. speak words.
[a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb]
KJV: preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter
here it can be translated as "preach". so we see another prophet preaching JESUS, and female.
so it no secret that females preached Christ.
PCY.
I believe the problem of women pastors is due to the incorrect way the one with the gift of teaching pastor is used, be they men or women. The Church has made the pastor teacher a one man show. And it shouldn't be. There are many gifts in the Body of Christ. And many in the individual churches have the same gift. And thus there are both men and women with the gift of pastor teacher in every local church. And they should be allowed to exercise that gift.
But the leadership position should be men. The voices of the teaching positions should be men. Even those of children. The women should be teaching the women. But at the same time the women are also taught by men during the Church services and other Bible studies. Just not by one man who runs the whole show.
Thus to see a church with a woman pastor today, you see a double problem. She is in a position of a one person show. And, she is a woman teaching the Church. Nothing good can come of it. Like it or not, the woman is more easily deceived. She can be exact in her doctrine, at the time, but she is still more easily deceived.
Spiritually it is a dangerous position for a woman. She is out from under her covering. And I am not talking about her husband. I am talking about the covering God has in God/Christ/Man/Woman. If a woman steps up to the pulpit to preach saying her husband is her covering, that is not true. Because if he was her covering he would tell her not to step up into that pulpit. She has stepped out from the covering of God and Christ. Opening herself up to deception, which will occur.
So, I would never attend a church where a woman is pastor. Neither would I attend a church where, which is commonly seen today, the pastors are a husband wife team. That is just a way to get the woman to teach the Church. satan is always devising ways to get the woman up there. I remember once years ago our Church's pastor's wife taught children in the church in the morning service. In the evening service there was a time of testimony given. Well she stood up and said she wanted to share all that the children had been learning in Sunday School. And so she gave us a sermon. She by passed the rule that she knew she could not remove by calling it something else. She should have been called down, but the Church usually doesn't have men in leadership positions who are man enough to do that.
Stranger
But the leadership position should be men. The voices of the teaching positions should be men. Even those of children. The women should be teaching the women. But at the same time the women are also taught by men during the Church services and other Bible studies. Just not by one man who runs the whole show.
Thus to see a church with a woman pastor today, you see a double problem. She is in a position of a one person show. And, she is a woman teaching the Church. Nothing good can come of it. Like it or not, the woman is more easily deceived. She can be exact in her doctrine, at the time, but she is still more easily deceived.
Spiritually it is a dangerous position for a woman. She is out from under her covering. And I am not talking about her husband. I am talking about the covering God has in God/Christ/Man/Woman. If a woman steps up to the pulpit to preach saying her husband is her covering, that is not true. Because if he was her covering he would tell her not to step up into that pulpit. She has stepped out from the covering of God and Christ. Opening herself up to deception, which will occur.
So, I would never attend a church where a woman is pastor. Neither would I attend a church where, which is commonly seen today, the pastors are a husband wife team. That is just a way to get the woman to teach the Church. satan is always devising ways to get the woman up there. I remember once years ago our Church's pastor's wife taught children in the church in the morning service. In the evening service there was a time of testimony given. Well she stood up and said she wanted to share all that the children had been learning in Sunday School. And so she gave us a sermon. She by passed the rule that she knew she could not remove by calling it something else. She should have been called down, but the Church usually doesn't have men in leadership positions who are man enough to do that.
Stranger
101G
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on point,
it's great when a husband and wife work together. as with the unmarried. the married is not the golden standard for the church.
to many people put emphases on GENDER, when the bible clearly states, Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus".
if one really believe the bible, why not obey it.
and God, the Lord Jesus is no respecter of persons. but I guess just throw those verses out the door also.
the bible is complete, with no confusion. confusion only comes from ignorance, not knowing or UNDERSTANDING.
now do we know everything about the word of God....... I'll answer for myself only... a resounding NO. I will not set up here and say I know everything about God word. there are many people here on this forum know way more than I in certain areas. and when listening I learn in silent just like the wife do at home. if I know something I'll just ignore the topic or subject matter all together.
no need to argue one's point endless, but lay a foundation and build on it. simple as that. if one hears, fine or no, fine also. as for me I rest in Revelation 22:11 & 12.
PCY
Helen
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Amen. Me too.
We come ( or some come) to the place of being mature enough to read it with the Holy Spirit...others sadly never do...they prefer to be spoon fed like little birds, and afraid to think and study with an open mind, for themselves.
Though they will deny it...they do not have a direct relationship with the Lord, but chose to have 'accepted man's teaching' between themselves and their Lord.
And yet they will deny this with both hand and feet.
Helen
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Helen
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In my circle of friends , we know many husband and wife ministries.
And among them are five couples when the man is the one who "touches the sheep"...he loves time one to one, praying for, visiting , they are great in giving wise words of counsel. They can preach okay...but the real 'feeder of the flock', the one with the anointed word of the Lord, is the woman.
There is neither male or female in Christ.
A woman under the anointing of the Holy Spirit is in the male anointing.
The seed of life is male.
A man trying to preach without the anointing of the Holy Spirit is not in the male anointing...he does not have the 'seed of life' to plant, he is impotent.
And among them are five couples when the man is the one who "touches the sheep"...he loves time one to one, praying for, visiting , they are great in giving wise words of counsel. They can preach okay...but the real 'feeder of the flock', the one with the anointed word of the Lord, is the woman.
There is neither male or female in Christ.
A woman under the anointing of the Holy Spirit is in the male anointing.
The seed of life is male.
A man trying to preach without the anointing of the Holy Spirit is not in the male anointing...he does not have the 'seed of life' to plant, he is impotent.
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Truth7t7
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No secret, women are to be silent in the churches, not to have authority over the man, be submissive to their husbands, and be home makers.
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